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Rifle Scopes Mils or MOA?

i_Adam_i18

Private
Minuteman
Oct 22, 2008
0
0
39
Olympia, WA
So if you have the choice of getting a mil dot scope with either Mil adjustments or MOA adjustments, which one do you get? What is the point of having MOA adjustments on a Mil dot scope...doesn't that just mean more calculations?

I want to get good at range estimation and putting the first round on target where I want it.

I'm in the process of studying up on range estimation, Mils, Mil dots...but I don't hear anything about MRAD vs. MOA turrets.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

I ended up going with the mil/mil setup. should have my scope late this week early next week! I was in the same boat as you, it all comes down to what you really want! Me for example i wanted matching, and mil seemed easier for me to understand, so i went with a mil/mils cope!
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

I prefer mil/mil mainly because a .1mil click is about 3/8 MOA which I think is the perfect size for an adjustment: not too big and not too small. That said, perhaps the most important thing is that the reticle and turret adjustments match: mil/mil or moa/moa. Which you choose doesn't really matter as you will print your drop chart to match.

The only mistake is getting mil/moa or moa/mil....that's just dumb for the reasons you highlight.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

If you enjoy cutting yourself and the feeling of a rat nibbling at the insides of your ass, then you definately want Mil/MOA. Otherwise you choose Mil/Mil and be thankful the dark ages are behind us.

 
Re: Mils or MOA?

Just out of curiosity why Mil/Mil and not MOA/MOA? I can't really see the benefit unless you're in the military and calling in arty/air/naval guns or correcting the same. I find it easier to work in units I've grown up with my whole life (inches and fractions thereof)...educate me.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

Both will work fine. If you shoot and spot with your buds, it's nice to have the same/same configuration.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

If you ever plan to shoot any NRA matches like F-Class, you'll want MOA knobs. The target rings are laid out in increments of MOA.

Whatever you decide, the reticle needs to match the knobs.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you ever plan to shoot any NRA matches like F-Class, you'll want MOA knobs. The target rings are laid out in increments of MOA.

Whatever you decide, the reticle needs to match the knobs. </div></div>

I definitely agree with that.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ANGLICO Marine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it easier to work in units I've grown up with my whole life (inches and fractions thereof)...educate me. </div></div>

Exactly.

All I know is range estimation with a Mil reticle. While I COULD change. Why WOULD I?
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ANGLICO Marine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it easier to work in units I've grown up with my whole life (inches and fractions thereof)...educate me.</div></div>

Niether MILS nor MOA are in inches and fractions thereof. With that said, I see no advantage to one system over the other. I use MOA/MOA, but MIL/MIL works just as good.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WASP7067</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if you have the choice of getting a mil dot scope with either Mil adjustments or MOA adjustments, which one do you get? What is the point of having MOA adjustments on a Mil dot scope...doesn't that just mean more calculations?

I want to get good at range estimation and putting the first round on target where I want it.

I'm in the process of studying up on range estimation, Mils, Mil dots...but I don't hear anything about MRAD vs. MOA turrets. </div></div>

Go to www.snipershide.com start page and read article in the middle of the page.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

I am not too fussed I prefer Mil/Mil now but my main thing is reticle matching turrets. I still understand MOA better as thats what I have been using for years but Mils is making ground with me. Conceptually when I think of a drop chart; in MOA it makes more sense to me than mils currently. But I see more sense in mils as it it substends as 1/1000 of any measurement. 1 yard at a 1000 yards etc.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ANGLICO Marine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Niether MILS nor MOA are in inches and fractions thereof. With that said, I see no advantage to one system over the other. I use MOA/MOA, but MIL/MIL works just as good. </div></div>

Your right...a MOA is 1.0471996" at 100 yards of distance or 10.471996" at 1000yards I've always just called it an inch at 100 yards and fired away, for all intents and purposes and practicality...an inch and fraction(s) thereof...In my book
smile.gif
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

This is why IPHY/IPHY is popular.
It's not "close" to an inch at 100 yards, it is an inch exactly.

Still, I agree that all systems work as well as the others.
I do believe that one can be more comfortable with the math of one over the other, but this is really just personal preference.
Fact is, MOA adjustments with Mil reticle still works as well as any other, but there are conversions to add complexity.

I like simple. I like IPHY/IPHY. I also like the color green, and long walks in the park without Janet Reno.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

If you are working with MIL scopes in your job, then go MIL/MIL.

If you are going to be punching a lot of paper, then MOA/MOA will give you finer increments of adjustment.

Personally, I like the reticle options in MIL/MIL more and am trying to cull my collection to purely MIL/MIL. For me, the MIL/MIL is more than fine enough to accommodate my shooting.

The key is getting the reticle and knob combo to match for ease of adjustments.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

never used moa/moa scope but seems the reticle would be a bit "busy." also arent mil turret adjustments a little less than precise? id say im comfortable sticking with the mildot/moa rig at least for now...and yes i like cutting myself but not the rat butt thing ratbert.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

After a few thousand rounds of practice on a setup, and I think any configuration can work very well for you.

My next purchase wil be MOA/MOA for target accuracy. The smallest MIL scope I have seen is .1 Mil ( .3375 MOA). Many MOA scopes go down to 1/8 MOA (.037 Mil). Leaning toward NightForce 12-42 Benchrest scope. This is 2.7 times finer adjustment capability over .1 Mil with the 1/8 MOA.

My current cheap system is MIL/MOA. I use a PDA when I can and printed a drop chart from the software for the other times and taped it to the stock. Printed 25 yards to 1000 yards in 25yard increments. No math is necessary even with a screwed up MIL/MOA system when done in advance.

For me, MIL ranging with the reticle is backup to a laser range finder, and seems only truely practical with a FFP scope. This limits your scope choices considerably.

Good Luck in your choice.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The smallest MIL scope I have seen is .1 Mil ( .3375 MOA).</div></div>

Leupold makes at least one with 0.05 mil adjustments. I don't recommend that for tactical shooting. A tenth of a mil at 1000 yards amounts to 3.6 inches, which is fine enough for tactical shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For me, MIL ranging with the reticle is backup to a laser range finder, and seems only truely practical with a FFP scope. This limits your scope choices considerably.</div></div>

The reticle on <span style="font-style: italic">most</span> SFP scopes is accurate at the highest power, which is what you'd want for ranging.

However, reticles are most useful for elevation holdovers/holdunders, wind holds, and moving target leads, and those are best done with a FFP scope.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

Relating everything back to inches is a calculation that will slow you down. Angular measurements are distance insensitive. Once you get used to evaluating the size of your target RELATIVE to its distance, not just its static size, then thinking in angular measurement becomes faster. Also once you have a matching FFP reticle to your knobs, two less mental calcs are required.

It all comes together when you can consider your distance and the relative size of the target compared to the distance, your wind call, and your holds over and off as one related real time calculation. When you evaluate your shot in this fashion, inches become irrelevant.

The time the actual size of the target becomes relevant is when trying to range it with a reticle, so in that case you need to know or estimate its static size in order to derive the distance.

Once the distance is known, here are some important questions and answers.

When someone asks me, "how many inches is that?" my answer is "who cares".

The question I most often ask myself when considering a wind call is, "how wrong can I be and STILL HIT the target?" The answer to that question can only be answered when knowing the angular dimension of the target relative to the distance you are currently from it. Over doping to the up wind side of the target is the easiest way to miss; "giving away the target", that is holding off of it, without understanding how much angular dimension relative to the possible range of your wind call you have to work with is how to drive your hit percentage down.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

A card like this can help you estimate how far off you can be in the wind and still hit the target. The columns are windspeed in mph, and the rows are distance in yards. The data is wind hold in mils.

So, looking through your scope, you can see the target size, and looking at the card, you can see what hold a given wind speed requires.

windchart.jpg


Very handy when the wind is gusting.
 
Re: Mils or MOA?

I prefer MOA/MOA myself. Is just easier for me than the mil/mil way but either way you go make sure that the reticule matches your adjustments on the turrnets.