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Mini Review: Steiner M7Xi 2.9-20x50 and Apex Training Solutions "Long Range 101" Course

Bakwa

Prophetic Marksman
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Mar 22, 2017
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    1,051
    FL
    In January I went to a Long Range 101 course with Apex Training Solutions. I figured that would be a good excuse to upgrade my glass so bought a Steiner M7Xi 2.9-20x50 a month prior to the course.
    There's not much information out there on the M7Xi's or Apex Training Solutions so I figure I'd get some first hand out to the community.
    Stay tuned; I have good and bad things to say.

    I put the M7Xi on a LEO contract Rem 700 short action 308 with a 24" M24 barrel. This proved to be a good combo to run during the course to learn and sharpen my skills on.

    Rifle pictured on the top of this particular "bring a gun to work day" picture.
    gunswall.jpg




    The M7Xi:
    scope3.jpg

    My first impression of this scope was that it felt like a tank. But it was more than just the sheer weight of this tactical style of optic. Everything from the feel of the turrets to the mag ring came together to give it a feel like a tool intended to be used hard.
    scope2.jpg

    The oversized turrets were a welcome feature. I had grown accustom to holding for targets out to 800yds, but this course seemed like the perfect opportunity to try dialing on the fly for longer shots. During the course there was a drill where we were to engage targets from 300-800 timed. The targets were at roughly 100yd increments. I dialed for every shot and was confident in my adjustments all the way out without coming off the gun.
    scope class 2.jpg

    The zero stop was very easy to set. It's as easy as loosening the set screws and turning to zero after mechanically zeroing the scope.
    After zeroing, the stop would actually stop at .5mils past your zero. I like having that option.

    The parallax was also easy to use and seemingly forgiving within the mag ranges that I used.
    scope class1.jpg

    The reticle I went with was the MSR-2. It may be my favorite non tree style reticle for general field use. I can't tell you how many times I used the measuring scale in the reticle during the ATS course just to gauge target sizes and judge wind based on marriage float angle. The center aiming point was fine enough that I felt confident in my precision when zoomed in and the thick bars that bleed into the reticle from the sides draw your eye to the center naturally.
    scope class.jpg

    The scope comes with robust flip caps made by Tenebrex. All high end scopes should come with good quality flip caps such as these in my mind.
    700class.jpg

    Now for some of the bad.

    I would have called this scope the S&B killer [and it would have taken 1st place for scopes that I've spent time behind] if it wasn't for this key [critical] thing.
    The glass and eye box at higher powers....

    Let me explain.
    At low-mid power the eye box was incredible. The eye relief actually didn't seem to need to change [much if at all] throughout the entire mag range for that matter. Once you got above 15x the eye box got incredibly tight. When you were at 20x if felt like you couldn't get out of the scope shadow. Forward, backward, side-to-side, up, or down, you had some slight shadow. This seemed to be a sacrifice they made in order to have this broad of a magnification range.

    The glass clarity seems to suffer in the higher mag ranges too. Even if you tried to tweak the ocular focus and the parallax to cheat it into focus it didn't seem to matter. For this reason, I didn't go above 16x during the course.

    I was disappointed to say the least. I've spent time behind or owned other top tier scopes, so these gripes are well compared and warranted. I find myself obsessed with obtaining gear that I know I won't outperform. This scope was almost it...
    Just to make sure I wasn't crazy I had other guys and instructors look through my M7Xi and they confirmed that it was nearly impossible to focus at 20x even when going back and forth playing with the parallax and ocular focus. My buddies basic PMii 5-25 on the other hand looked great at 20-25x by comparison.

    I've since sold the M7Xi because I have little tolerance for things that I spend that kind of money on that don't work out for me. I recognize that perhaps it was a lemon and I should have reached out to Steiner to see what they would say about it, but it seems that it worked so well in every other way that it was surely a downfall of Steiner attempting to squeeze that large of a magnification range into an otherwise fairly small feature rich tactical optic.

    After the course I sold the M7Xi for a song to another hide member and replaced it with a good old fashion ATACR 4-16 on that rifle. There are serious gripes I have with the ATACR's too, but they're solid optics and their features are good enough for my uses on this 308 rifle.



    Apex Training Solutions, Long Range 101:
    class2.jpg

    The ATS cadre were all young. That was my initial impression. I was initially worried that I might have wasted my money because they were all younger than me and I'm not old. lol
    But come to find out they had fairly impressive resumes. Marine sniper instructor, DOS sniper instructor, special focuses on urban sniper craft, helicopter sniper techniques, etc,... just to name a few credentials.
    They were all Marines too. As was about half the class, so we all got along pretty well.
    class3.jpg

    They had a good balance of professional classroom time and application of theory on the range.
    class6.jpg

    In the classroom on the first day we covered basics like fundamentals of marksmanship, elements of a good shooting position, proper trigger and breath control, etc... They did a good job with the basics in that they were brief enough as to not beat a dead horse, but were also thorough enough that everyone was tracking appropriately.
    class.jpg

    The first day on the range the cadre ran the students through a number of drills to establish confidence in the fundamentals and also gauged where everyone in the class was at with their individual skill levels.
    class5.jpg

    On the second day in the classroom the instructors breached into slightly more advanced material. They did a general class on external ballistics and wind calling, then covered cocepts such as building dope charts, axial form factor, advanced wind calling & ranging techniques, etc.. All to say, the second day was where I learned the most.
    class4.jpg

    On that second day, we did more advanced confidence building drills [that I now have in my toolbox of drills] and did some timed/scored tests to see where we were at. The wind was ripping back and forth and stuttering between 5-15mph. It was a heck of a day to practice wind calling, but it was also an opportunity to reflect on how to overcome imperfect field conditions. Marriage was evident at 700-800yds, so we used that as a teaching tool for a few concepts, which was cool and something that I didn't otherwise know was useful.
    class picture.jpg

    All in all, as someone who's had firearms/marksmanship training from gov & state, and who competes semi regularly in shooting comps, I walked away with a lot for a basic 101 class. These young dudes proved to be pretty solid instructors and were approachable. I'd recommend their 101 course to shooters new to long range as well as advanced shooters who have never had formal instruction or haven't had formal instruction in a while. Looking forward to making time for their long range 102 course sometime down the road.


    If any of you guys have any questions about either of these reviews feel free to post in this thread or PM me.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited:
    Forgive the expeditious manner which this was written.
    I've been sitting on this for over a month and wanted to get it on paper before I procrastinated these reviews any longer.
     
    Appreciate the time you did put into that Bakwa, it's not easy to try to get everything in your head and recall all nuances of how a scope performed. Sounds like the M7Xi 2.9-20 suffers a similar fate as the 4-28, where IQ appears to fall off at higher magnifications. Once again showing how much ahead of its time the Schmidt Ultra Short 3-20 really was. The best ultra short scope I have found to date is the ZCO 4-20 and while you don't have as wide FOV at the bottom, if you can live with that it is nothing short of exceptional - overall FOV goes to the Schmidt but overall IQ goes to the ZCO, at least that is my opinion having had both. Some manufacturer's try to squeeze too much innovation into their scopes, and those who try to do so with high magnification erectors sometimes struggle in other departments. This 2.9-20x50 had my interest as well and I had hoped Steiner learned from the shortcomings of the 4-28x56 (CA issues and IQ issues especially at higher mags). ILya should be wrapping up his alpha class 50mm review which also includes this scope so will be curious to see if his results align with yours as well, as whenever I find a scope that disappoints like this, I wonder if it is sample variance, sometimes I'll deal with warranty and sometimes I can return for another unit but I simply don't have the cash to purchase multiple scopes at the same time to rule out sample variance so have to go with that initial impression.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Bakwa
    This is a bummer i got 2 m7xi steiner one of each. Seems like I might have made a mistake. I have yet to test them in the wild due to the red tide.

    I hope I won't have to off load them at a super loss.

    @SteinerOpticsUSA
     
    Forgive the expeditious manner which this was written.
    I've been sitting on this for over a month and wanted to get it on paper before I procrastinated these reviews any longer.
    Thanks for the great, detailed review. Steiner is sending me a replacement of a 5-25 M5xi, and I opted for the the M7xi, which they were cool with. Trying to decide between the 4-28 vs 2.9-20. It's almost as if.....the 2.9-20.....is more of a 3-15?
     
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    Reactions: Bakwa
    Thanks for the great, detailed review. Steiner is sending me a replacement of a 5-25 M5xi, and I opted for the the M7xi, which they were cool with. Trying to decide between the 4-28 vs 2.9-20. It's almost as if.....the 2.9-20.....is more of a 3-15?
    That was my experience, but from what I understand that's not everyone's experience.
    I probably should have given Steiner's warranty department a chance to amend the issue, but I'm impatient and I really like the ZCO I replaced it with.
    I still like Steiner, and I still think if it wasn't for that focus issue that may have been the perfect scope in its class.
     
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    Reactions: jh2785
    That was my experience, but from what I understand that's not everyone's experience.
    I probably should have given Steiner's warranty department a chance to amend the issue, but I'm impatient and I really like the ZCO I replaced it with.
    I still like Steiner, and I still think if it wasn't for that focus issue that may have been the perfect scope in its class.
    Have you been able to review the 4-28? Or do you have any thoughts as to which is the higher quality optic from Steiner? (2.9-20 vs 4-28)
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Bakwa
    Have you been able to review the 4-28? Or do you have any thoughts as to which is the higher quality optic from Steiner? (2.9-20 vs 4-28)

    I haven't had time to find a 4-28 M7Xi to get behind. Most of my shooting is under 800yds [really under 500yds] and/or for speed, so the higher mag scopes don't tend to appeal to me.
     
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    It's almost as if.....the 2.9-20.....is more of a 3-15?
    That was my experience, but from what I understand that's not everyone's experience.
    This was also ILya's experience, after I watched his review of 50mm optics I decided to shy away from the 2.9-20 based on early reviews regarding the falloff of optical performance above 15x.

    Oddly enough, the M7Xi 4.5-28 also had reports of optical falloff above 20x, some also noted more CA than should be at this price point.

    That being said, there are plenty who are happy with the M7Xi series, sometimes you just got to try for yourself. I've seen heavy CA in scopes that others have never seen any so it comes down to "in the eye of the beholder."
     
    My m7Xi 2.9 X 20 is razor sharp all the way through the magnification range. I love the scope. I've took it out to 800 yards with no problem. No optical fall off at all.
     
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    Reactions: Jumper and Bakwa
    Yeah, same with my M7xi 4-28x56. Steiner did replace it once though.
    I have the M7Xi 4-28x56 as well with the tremor 3 reticle, killer scope. Great German glass and I'm not selling it neither. You have to figure all of the law enforcement teams and swat teams that use them. They have to be great scopes. Built like tanks.
     
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    Reactions: Tikkaguy
    I have the M7xi 2.9-20x50 and have ran it hard for 2 years. I'm not a competitor, more of a hobbiest and hunter. I've often used the scope to glass hills and I've never had a problem with focusing on 15-20x. I've had no problem spotting a deer or elk at a mile or further, I can't imagine why somebody would want more than that but if a guy has 4-5k to spend I won't say anything bad about that. Of course it isn't as good as a 56mm objective as it does get a little dark like basically any optic will reaching its max power. For me, I will sacrifice a little bit of optical clarity for extreme ruggedness and the precision tracking in the German scopes. And steiner has an excellent warranty, they will take care of you especially with the M series. Always a possibility there is a lemon or two out there but the QC is very tight since they do sell them to some tier one military units around the world. Not the very best thing out there but they are rock solid.
     
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    Reactions: Tikkaguy