I've done some searching for this without much luck so here goes. I'd like to know if any of you folks have any of the Model 1 AR kits and how well you like them. The specific one I'm interested in is the 16" Varmint complete kit with a 223 chamber and a 1 in 9" twist stainless barrel. Also any info on the Spikes Tactical lower would be great also. Thanks in advance.
- Thread starter Ark. Trapper
- Start date
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
They are OK. Thats about it. DO NOT use a credit card with them unless you want the info stolen. Pay with a MO.
They are OK. Thats about it. DO NOT use a credit card with them unless you want the info stolen. Pay with a MO.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Spike's tactical lowers are fine. I would not use model1sales for a rifle kit, maybe for parts like a stock kit or misc screws but their uppers seem to be hit or miss.
If you're looking for a place with affordable uppers/parts I would check out Pkfirearms. They have RRA Varmint uppers in stock for just under 600. I have a 20" RRA bull upper and it is incredibly accurate. DPMS ones aren't bad either but the RRA is better imo.
edit: Aeroprecision is another lower that I see stripped for cheap and they work well enough too. Stag is the only one I've ever had problems with to be honest and I've used ~10 different brands.
Spike's tactical lowers are fine. I would not use model1sales for a rifle kit, maybe for parts like a stock kit or misc screws but their uppers seem to be hit or miss.
If you're looking for a place with affordable uppers/parts I would check out Pkfirearms. They have RRA Varmint uppers in stock for just under 600. I have a 20" RRA bull upper and it is incredibly accurate. DPMS ones aren't bad either but the RRA is better imo.
edit: Aeroprecision is another lower that I see stripped for cheap and they work well enough too. Stag is the only one I've ever had problems with to be honest and I've used ~10 different brands.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Midway had DPMS uppers on sale this month 16" SS bull barrel flat tops for right around 500 bux. I bought one in August and she shoots 75gr bthp's like a dream. Take a look at them once.
Midway had DPMS uppers on sale this month 16" SS bull barrel flat tops for right around 500 bux. I bought one in August and she shoots 75gr bthp's like a dream. Take a look at them once.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
M1S kits are mostly ok. In the grand scheme AR parts are AR parts...BUT, the bolts M1S uses are suspect. Jim used to have one as a keychain that was cracked on one side of the cam pin hole. He says he's seen 3 AR/M16 bolts that have cracked or broken at the cam pin hole, all of them were M1S bolts. Check out JSESurplus.com. Always had good dealings with them.
M1S kits are mostly ok. In the grand scheme AR parts are AR parts...BUT, the bolts M1S uses are suspect. Jim used to have one as a keychain that was cracked on one side of the cam pin hole. He says he's seen 3 AR/M16 bolts that have cracked or broken at the cam pin hole, all of them were M1S bolts. Check out JSESurplus.com. Always had good dealings with them.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
I have a 20" free floating upper from M1S. The barrel is heavier than most but not a varmiter (heavier under the handguard only). At any rate,I was getting groups just under an inch with 52gr and 69gr handloads. With factory M193 I was getting about 1.5". My brother has an M4 typer upper that he ran at a Tactical Response carbine course without a hitch. Now granted we both "tweeked" our rifles a bit so maybe we were getting better results. I changed the BCG, put in a DM trigger and use handloads almost exclusively.
I have a 20" free floating upper from M1S. The barrel is heavier than most but not a varmiter (heavier under the handguard only). At any rate,I was getting groups just under an inch with 52gr and 69gr handloads. With factory M193 I was getting about 1.5". My brother has an M4 typer upper that he ran at a Tactical Response carbine course without a hitch. Now granted we both "tweeked" our rifles a bit so maybe we were getting better results. I changed the BCG, put in a DM trigger and use handloads almost exclusively.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
tomme boy, I feel for you I lost my Choclate Lab last summer my best friend for 15 yrs.Went through 2 wives during that time but Bubbadawg stood the test of time.
tomme boy, I feel for you I lost my Choclate Lab last summer my best friend for 15 yrs.Went through 2 wives during that time but Bubbadawg stood the test of time.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Thanks for the responses guys. I'm still looking at different options as this will be my first AR. Would I be better off with the 223 or the NATO chamber? I usually reload everything I shoot but wouldn't mind shooting some of the cheap factory stuff once in a while.
Thanks for the responses guys. I'm still looking at different options as this will be my first AR. Would I be better off with the 223 or the NATO chamber? I usually reload everything I shoot but wouldn't mind shooting some of the cheap factory stuff once in a while.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Nothing wrong with the Model 1 goodies. Bought a 16" from them a couple of years ago just to burn up as a practice upper and it did REALLY well. There were some issues with their 6.8 bolts back in the day as they were modified 223 bolts. Not the way to do it and imagine they've rectified the situation (don't know for sure). Their 223 bolts are good enough though. No need to buy an end of the world rifle if you're going plinkin'. Just ask yourself every time folks post up their rifle, "How many rounds do they shoot with such a clean (no scratches, marks, dings, etc.) rifle?".
On the Spikes Tactical lower. For all the fancy, Gucci, Joe Tactical silliness, understand that ALL...and I mean ALL, AR lowers are generally cut in one of like 6 machine shops. As long as the holes line up and are where they're supposed to be, the only decision you have to make is how much are you willing to spend on a receiver that has a spider or has a buck on it? Hell, if you wanted it to say Joe's Killer Zombie Rifle Co., you can contact LAR Grizzly (one of the larger AR lower machine houses) and if you buy like 200 (or 500) they'll put whatever you want on there.
A lot of people make a lot of money for 'ultra mega, death zombie forged' this and matched set that. Here's some info. The upper to lower fit, doesn't affect accuracy on the rifle (sights are mounted to the barrel on an AR, basically) so the "match" fit (or lack thereof) doesn't matter (ask a Highpower shooter, or just cut through it all and do what I did and ask David Tubb).
So...for the price, Spikes are awesome.
Rich
(p.s. sorry for the rant)
Nothing wrong with the Model 1 goodies. Bought a 16" from them a couple of years ago just to burn up as a practice upper and it did REALLY well. There were some issues with their 6.8 bolts back in the day as they were modified 223 bolts. Not the way to do it and imagine they've rectified the situation (don't know for sure). Their 223 bolts are good enough though. No need to buy an end of the world rifle if you're going plinkin'. Just ask yourself every time folks post up their rifle, "How many rounds do they shoot with such a clean (no scratches, marks, dings, etc.) rifle?".
On the Spikes Tactical lower. For all the fancy, Gucci, Joe Tactical silliness, understand that ALL...and I mean ALL, AR lowers are generally cut in one of like 6 machine shops. As long as the holes line up and are where they're supposed to be, the only decision you have to make is how much are you willing to spend on a receiver that has a spider or has a buck on it? Hell, if you wanted it to say Joe's Killer Zombie Rifle Co., you can contact LAR Grizzly (one of the larger AR lower machine houses) and if you buy like 200 (or 500) they'll put whatever you want on there.
A lot of people make a lot of money for 'ultra mega, death zombie forged' this and matched set that. Here's some info. The upper to lower fit, doesn't affect accuracy on the rifle (sights are mounted to the barrel on an AR, basically) so the "match" fit (or lack thereof) doesn't matter (ask a Highpower shooter, or just cut through it all and do what I did and ask David Tubb).
So...for the price, Spikes are awesome.
Rich
(p.s. sorry for the rant)
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Ark. trapper, with regards to your question about chambering I would suggest a "Wylde" chamber. These chambers handle .223/5.56 NATO cartridges. I think most manufacturers offer this option.
Ark. trapper, with regards to your question about chambering I would suggest a "Wylde" chamber. These chambers handle .223/5.56 NATO cartridges. I think most manufacturers offer this option.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
^^^ Second that. 223 Wylde does everything right.
Rich
^^^ Second that. 223 Wylde does everything right.
Rich
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Thank you Gentlemen. I'm not into all the zombie killer; hanging ten pounds of lights, lasers, and other bullshit on a rifle crap. I just want a good solid flattop upper with a decent barrel that will function well and shoot around 1 moa and a lower good enough to keep all the parts from falling out! I'm glad ya'll told me what a Wylde chamber is, I've been wondering what the hell is so special about em that everybody uses em. Lol
Thank you Gentlemen. I'm not into all the zombie killer; hanging ten pounds of lights, lasers, and other bullshit on a rifle crap. I just want a good solid flattop upper with a decent barrel that will function well and shoot around 1 moa and a lower good enough to keep all the parts from falling out! I'm glad ya'll told me what a Wylde chamber is, I've been wondering what the hell is so special about em that everybody uses em. Lol
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
I have a M1S Barrel and the quality has been good enough for the price. Didn't have any problems with stolen card numbers but then, I ordered over the phone.
Another company for lowers that look pretty sound is Surplus Ammo and Arms out of Lakewood, Washington, so far they are the least expensive I've seen as well. I believe Aero Precision makes their uppers AND lowers. I think Aero is also making the one piece upper for Armalite.
I just got one of the pricey custom marking pirate lowers from Spikes and it appears to equivalent, quality-wise, to my DPMS lowers. I just couldn't resist the selector markings (yes, I have issues.)
I heard a rumor that Aero used to make the receivers for Spikes, but I have no official confirmation on it.
I have a M1S Barrel and the quality has been good enough for the price. Didn't have any problems with stolen card numbers but then, I ordered over the phone.
Another company for lowers that look pretty sound is Surplus Ammo and Arms out of Lakewood, Washington, so far they are the least expensive I've seen as well. I believe Aero Precision makes their uppers AND lowers. I think Aero is also making the one piece upper for Armalite.
I just got one of the pricey custom marking pirate lowers from Spikes and it appears to equivalent, quality-wise, to my DPMS lowers. I just couldn't resist the selector markings (yes, I have issues.)
I heard a rumor that Aero used to make the receivers for Spikes, but I have no official confirmation on it.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Well guys I ordered the 16" varmint complete kit with the 1 in 8 stainless barrel today and will have a spikes lower headed this way in a day or two. Guess I'll see first hand how well it'll work! I'll keep you posted.
Well guys I ordered the 16" varmint complete kit with the 1 in 8 stainless barrel today and will have a spikes lower headed this way in a day or two. Guess I'll see first hand how well it'll work! I'll keep you posted.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ark. Trapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well guys I ordered the 16" varmint complete kit with the 1 in 8 stainless barrel today and will have a spikes lower headed this way in a day or two. Guess I'll see first hand how well it'll work! I'll keep you posted. </div></div>
nice, def keep us posted on this setup. should work out well for ya
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ark. Trapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well guys I ordered the 16" varmint complete kit with the 1 in 8 stainless barrel today and will have a spikes lower headed this way in a day or two. Guess I'll see first hand how well it'll work! I'll keep you posted. </div></div>
nice, def keep us posted on this setup. should work out well for ya
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Got my kit in yesterday from Model 1. It's a pretty decent looking rig. They're not screwing around when they say "extra heavy bull barrel". Lol. That baby measures 1.050" under the handguard, .936 at the gas block, and .923 the rest of the way out. I'm sure you fellers already knew that but since I'm new to the AR market I didn't realize they were that heavy. My lower should be in today but I've got a budies DPMS here that I worked on and have to shoot so I'm fixing to haed out and give my upper a trial run too. I've been loading a few different loads this mornin to try. I'll let ya'll know how it shoots.
Got my kit in yesterday from Model 1. It's a pretty decent looking rig. They're not screwing around when they say "extra heavy bull barrel". Lol. That baby measures 1.050" under the handguard, .936 at the gas block, and .923 the rest of the way out. I'm sure you fellers already knew that but since I'm new to the AR market I didn't realize they were that heavy. My lower should be in today but I've got a budies DPMS here that I worked on and have to shoot so I'm fixing to haed out and give my upper a trial run too. I've been loading a few different loads this mornin to try. I'll let ya'll know how it shoots.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Now get the 2 stage rra trigger from legal transfers. Think its $90 shipped.
Now get the 2 stage rra trigger from legal transfers. Think its $90 shipped.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
White Oak Armament - Complete Varmint Upper... For the Win!
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/complete_uppers.htm
.223 Varmint Upper
2vu1 18" or 20" .223 Varmint Upper $595.00
AVAILABLE OPTIONS:
·Straight fluting $100
White Oak Armament - Complete Varmint Upper... For the Win!
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/complete_uppers.htm
.223 Varmint Upper
2vu1 18" or 20" .223 Varmint Upper $595.00
AVAILABLE OPTIONS:
·Straight fluting $100
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
I'm pretty well satisfied with my upper. 3 different bullets in front of 27 grains of Varget grouped between 7/8th's" and 1 1/8th" for five shots. And as a pleasant surprise the Federal 100 pack 55gr FMJ factory stuff put five into an inch as well. That's not too bad for the first loads tried IMO. It's a damn wonder I shot that well with the shitty factory trigger in my buddies lower. Now I just need to tweak my loads for the 50gr Ballistic tip and 53gr Hor. HP to see how tight I can get em to shoot and I'll be in business.
I'm pretty well satisfied with my upper. 3 different bullets in front of 27 grains of Varget grouped between 7/8th's" and 1 1/8th" for five shots. And as a pleasant surprise the Federal 100 pack 55gr FMJ factory stuff put five into an inch as well. That's not too bad for the first loads tried IMO. It's a damn wonder I shot that well with the shitty factory trigger in my buddies lower. Now I just need to tweak my loads for the 50gr Ballistic tip and 53gr Hor. HP to see how tight I can get em to shoot and I'll be in business.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
What optic are you using? My Model 1 is inside an inch all day.
Rich
What optic are you using? My Model 1 is inside an inch all day.
Rich
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Rich, rite now I've just got a cheap centerpoint 4x16 from wally world on it. It seems to be a pretty decent scope for the money but I'll probably upgrade soon and put the centerpoint on my boys 22. I really don't think the groups I got were too bad considering how VERY creepy and heavy the trigger in that lower is. I'm gonna put my lower together today and shoot it tomorrow. I did a little honing on my trigger to slick it up so I'll get to see how it compares to the stock trigger in the other lower.
You guys know much about the Jard triggers? My gunsmith buddy has a couple and they feel great. I'm thinking about gettin one of those since I'm a bolt action man by nature and can't make myself like the 2 stage crap at all.
Rich, rite now I've just got a cheap centerpoint 4x16 from wally world on it. It seems to be a pretty decent scope for the money but I'll probably upgrade soon and put the centerpoint on my boys 22. I really don't think the groups I got were too bad considering how VERY creepy and heavy the trigger in that lower is. I'm gonna put my lower together today and shoot it tomorrow. I did a little honing on my trigger to slick it up so I'll get to see how it compares to the stock trigger in the other lower.
You guys know much about the Jard triggers? My gunsmith buddy has a couple and they feel great. I'm thinking about gettin one of those since I'm a bolt action man by nature and can't make myself like the 2 stage crap at all.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Gotcha.
They're not bad as long as you don't plan to shoot the rifle a lot, my experiences. JP or Rock River 2 stage. That's it for me.
Rich
Gotcha.
They're not bad as long as you don't plan to shoot the rifle a lot, my experiences. JP or Rock River 2 stage. That's it for me.
Rich
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
What's the pull weight usually run on the RRA triggers? I've been reading alot of good things about em here and other places as well.
What's the pull weight usually run on the RRA triggers? I've been reading alot of good things about em here and other places as well.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
On my Service Rifle it's like at 3.5-4#'s (I think). Can't remember what the rule is, but it's at the minimum. My JP's at a crisp 2#'s.
Rich
On my Service Rifle it's like at 3.5-4#'s (I think). Can't remember what the rule is, but it's at the minimum. My JP's at a crisp 2#'s.
Rich
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Is there any reasonable way to lighten the factory unit til I can get another trigger in? I honed the mating surfaces some before I installed it cause they were rough as hell. It's now smoother than the dpms in my buddies lower but is still heavy. I saw a spring kit in Brownells that said it would lighten the factory pull so I'm thinking the hammer spring has a pretty big affect on the pull weight??? The hammer spring in mine is really strong.
Is there any reasonable way to lighten the factory unit til I can get another trigger in? I honed the mating surfaces some before I installed it cause they were rough as hell. It's now smoother than the dpms in my buddies lower but is still heavy. I saw a spring kit in Brownells that said it would lighten the factory pull so I'm thinking the hammer spring has a pretty big affect on the pull weight??? The hammer spring in mine is really strong.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
If I had the lower in front of me, I can usually knock it out in like an hour.
Rich
If I had the lower in front of me, I can usually knock it out in like an hour.
Rich
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
I tweaked on the hammer spring some and made it better. I didn't get too crazy tho since I don't have a spare and didn't want to FUBAR it. Here's a 10 shot group with 50gr Ballistic Tips. Not too bad for a splazmatic IMO!
I tweaked on the hammer spring some and made it better. I didn't get too crazy tho since I don't have a spare and didn't want to FUBAR it. Here's a 10 shot group with 50gr Ballistic Tips. Not too bad for a splazmatic IMO!
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
That'll work. 1 MOA is never a bad thing especially with 50's.
Rich
That'll work. 1 MOA is never a bad thing especially with 50's.
Rich
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
The springs in M1S kits are heavier than most others, never understood why. I use a TTI International reduced power spring kit in my lowers, Brownells #989 000 001, $3.13 LE/ dealer, $4.99 for the unwashed. You may find problems with some Military and European primers not igniting with reduced power springs due to the heavier material used for the primer cups. You can also mix the springs, lightweight trigger/ disco with a standard hammer to sort of tune a stock trigger to your liking.
The springs in M1S kits are heavier than most others, never understood why. I use a TTI International reduced power spring kit in my lowers, Brownells #989 000 001, $3.13 LE/ dealer, $4.99 for the unwashed. You may find problems with some Military and European primers not igniting with reduced power springs due to the heavier material used for the primer cups. You can also mix the springs, lightweight trigger/ disco with a standard hammer to sort of tune a stock trigger to your liking.
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
For a quick & dirty trigger job you can add JP springs and cut the "hook" off of the top of the hammer.
Figured I'd throw that out there.
Rich
For a quick & dirty trigger job you can add JP springs and cut the "hook" off of the top of the hammer.
Figured I'd throw that out there.
Rich
Re: Model 1 sales Ar kits
Thanks for the tips guys! Here are some pics of the rifle.
Thanks for the tips guys! Here are some pics of the rifle.
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