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More with Less

texasvmi

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 11, 2010
90
0
45
WHERE EVER UNCLE SAM SENDS ME
I am currently a student at the US Army Command and General Staff College. One of the requirements during the course is to conduct Strategic Communication. I have chosen to throw myself to the lions and post a question Blog on my favorite discussion site. I am a shooter and know a few of you personally. I am proud to be a member of this community.

My question to the readers is "'Recently the DOD has been dealing with the future reduced budget. 'Do more with less' is quickly becoming the mantra within the ranks of the military. How do the tax payers, veterans, and service men and women parents feel about the 'do more with less' idea? With Iraq drawing down and a political promise of a draw down in Afghanistan, do you think the military could in fact do more with less? I am interested to hear all opinions, possible solutions, or opposing ideas. Please keep the hate comments, or flaming to a minimum as they will be reviwed by my classmates. Thank You.

David W. Gray
MAJ, AR
CGSC SG20C
Veteran: Iraq 03-04, 05-06, Afghanistan 2008-2009
 
Re: More with Less

Sir,

As a former Business Development Rep. for Government Contracts I have a few observations from the other side of the fence. The EFY "rush" to spend units funds can get absurd at times. Here are a few things I have thought of to reduce this:

1) Stop reducing following FY budgets due to unspent prior FY funds.
2) Make OER Bullets for coming in under budget, with mission accomplishment.
3) More OIC discretion on budgetary issues down to the Battalion Level.

I'll try to come up with some more, but I can tell that every FY hundreds of millions of dollars get spent on "like to have, because I need to spent $XXXX before the end of the month" items.
 
Re: More with Less

I say, "do less with less." I hate the way we waste our boy's lives on meaningless police actions (Iraq/Africa/Libya/etc...). I'm an advocate for drastically shrinking the size and scope of our military. A new defense and minor special actions strategy needs to be adopted where our small but powerful military only defends our nation and when NATO/we decide we can send in a small team for offensive strikes. There's just no point in policing the world, we go someplace to ___?___ and the country we "free" ends up hating us naming us their enemy. It's by Einstein's definition, insane.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein"
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasvmi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am currently a student at the US Army Command and General Staff College. One of the requirements during the course is to conduct Strategic Communication. I have chosen to throw myself to the lions and post a question Blog on my favorite discussion site. I am a shooter and know a few of you personally. I am proud to be a member of this community.

My question to the readers is "'Recently the DOD has been dealing with the future reduced budget. 'Do more with less' is quickly becoming the mantra within the ranks of the military. How do the tax payers, veterans, and service men and women parents feel about the 'do more with less' idea? With Iraq drawing down and a political promise of a draw down in Afghanistan, do you think the military could in fact do more with less? I am interested to hear all opinions, possible solutions, or opposing ideas. Please keep the hate comments, or flaming to a minimum as they will be reviwed by my classmates. Thank You.

David W. Gray
MAJ, AR
CGSC SG20C
Veteran: Iraq 03-04, 05-06, Afghanistan 2008-2009 </div></div>


I think they absolutely can do more with less. The most major way to save money is not in combat arms but in logistics.

In 2004/2005 there were rec leagues playing vollyball, basketball, softball, and other sports on LSA Anaconda. There was a juice bar with salsa dancing.

The combat arms guys I was with were in Samarra getting one hot meal every other day.

What really bothered us was that the point of LSA was (logistics support area). That implies it was an area to ship supplies for dissemination to troops- IE support of troops.

Most supplies never left Anaconda- we ate a steady diet of frozen pizza. Things like lunch meat or cheese slices were considered scarce luxury items. Most of those support troops never left anaconda.

You can't really reduce the number of combat troops without taking the heart out of the fight, but you could certainly reduce the number of support troops playing recreational league sports, and maintaining swimming pools, and doing all the other time wasting that goes on in logistics areas.

On a second deployment, I realized the same supply issues and wasted resources are also a reality within CJSOTF- where deployed combat personnel might run out of toilet paper or eat pie for a week because they run out of regular food. Again, they have a nice well supplied support area where everything is in plentiful supply.

<span style="font-weight: bold">My intent is not to rag on support troops but to say oversight is terribly lacking in that area, and it costs the army a lot of money.</span>

Another good money saver would be to hire contractors for base security rather than put Infantry soldiers in those positions. Ugandans make $20 a day, US soldiers make $130 a day and have insurance, disability, school loans, the GI bill, and other incentives- IE they are not cheap, and the job of glorified mall cop, is a job the Army should be giving to mall cops.

Another money saver would be to absolutely rigidly adhere to fitness standards. The obese soldiers in guard units especially are the only reasonable excuse for 3-5 month train ups. Your more fit personnel will be deployable in 4-6 weeks, seriously enhancing the forces ability to do more with less.

Sometimes management will do a lot- when an OP is manned by 7 soldiers and can be manned with 3, you're wasting 50% of the force.

Training and utilization is another area of poor efficiency- Snipers are often not employed by the Army. They are an incredible force multiplier. That training is solid gold for anti-terrorism. No soldier can control more ground or gather more useful intel on it, than a sniper.

Manning bases will not win wars. It takes creative combat leaders to figure out how to take the war to the enemy and a winning strategy will most likely involve Op's in areas home to the enemy. A network of ever changing, hidden observation posts is probably the best way to catch terrorists. Patrols take ownership of ground so temporarily, the primary purpose they seem to serve is to expose troops to enemy bombs and ambushes.

Sometimes a calculated risk like wearing a plate carrier and patrol cap instead of 30 lbs of stifling movement inhibiting armor makes the difference between a mobile, useful and alert soldier, and a not mobile, not useful, and totally fatigued waste of space. Command policies regarding body armor leave our soldiers at an extreme disadvantage when fighting highly mobile, indigenous terrorists armed with an AK, a few magazines and no other encumbrances.

Power point is not a replacement for training. It's more often a waste of valuable time that could be spent training soldiers how to fight, move, shoot, and work together. CTT training, checking the box, and powerpoint are a waste of time.

Hell- there are entire training FOB's built on military bases. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A TRAINING FOB?? It's like a practice apartment for children on their way to a real apartment. The base is where you live- not what you do.

image1716.jpg

The Army has tools- like the basic rifle marksmanship "Weaponeer" that do a great job of teaching soldiers to shoot. Why a soldier only gets to spend 10 minutes on one in his entire career is beyond me. It looks like cheap valuable training to me. Instead they seem to have adopted MMA fighting as a way to enhance the self image of soldiers who haven't learned basic proficiency with small arms. The fight is a cruel reality- you shoot better or risk death. MMA is not a coping mechanism for a soldier who can't operate his weapon proficiently.

Give your combat troops the best gear. It's a small investment that goes a long way- If you see SF doing something, that's a good indicator it has some value you're failing to understand. Like Sound suppressors. Why haven't they trickled down to line units when every other piece of gear has (ACOG's, eo-techs, rail systems, IR lasers, IR scopes, better helmets, etc). The Army needs to stop taking a command attitude that "this is the way something is supposed to be done" and start letting their NCO's and soldiers have some input.

In some areas we have awesome gear that needs to be improved. The RWS (remote weapon system) great tool- the camera imager however- is absolute crap. Why combine a miracle engagement system with an electronic eye that can't determine friend or foe at 75 meters?

<span style="font-weight: bold">My 9 years in the Army convinced me that the Army was poorly managed and that I could not change anything about it.

It was disappointing coming to the realization that the people in charge were going to reduce the lethality and efficiency of the Army every year and that I would have to watch as the Infantry was slowly bastardized.
</span>
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasvmi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am currently a student at the US Army Command and General Staff College. One of the requirements during the course is to conduct Strategic Communication. I have chosen to throw myself to the lions and post a question Blog on my favorite discussion site. I am a shooter and know a few of you personally. I am proud to be a member of this community.

My question to the readers is "'Recently the DOD has been dealing with the future reduced budget. 'Do more with less' is quickly becoming the mantra within the ranks of the military. How do the tax payers, veterans, and service men and women parents feel about the 'do more with less' idea? With Iraq drawing down and a political promise of a draw down in Afghanistan, do you think the military could in fact do more with less? I am interested to hear all opinions, possible solutions, or opposing ideas. Please keep the hate comments, or flaming to a minimum as they will be reviwed by my classmates. Thank You.

David W. Gray
MAJ, AR
CGSC SG20C
Veteran: Iraq 03-04, 05-06, Afghanistan 2008-2009 </div></div>


Damn fine post sir!

I think they absolutely can do more with less. The most major way to save money is not in combat arms but in logistics.

In 2004/2005 there were rec leagues playing vollyball, basketball, softball, and other sports on LSA Anaconda. There was a juice bar with salsa dancing.

The combat arms guys I was with were in Samarra getting one hot meal every other day.

What really bothered us was that the point of LSA was (logistics support area). That implies it was an area to ship supplies for dissemination to troops- IE support of troops.

Most supplies never left Anaconda- we ate a steady diet of frozen pizza. Things like lunch meat or cheese slices were considered scarce luxury items. Most of those support troops never left anaconda.

You can't really reduce the number of combat troops without taking the heart out of the fight, but you could certainly reduce the number of support troops playing recreational league sports, and maintaining swimming pools, and doing all the other time wasting that goes on in logistics areas.

On a second deployment, I realized the same supply issues and wasted resources are also a reality within CJSOTF- where deployed combat personnel might run out of toilet paper or eat pie for a week because they run out of regular food. Again, they have a nice well supplied support area where everything is in plentiful supply.

<span style="font-weight: bold">My intent is not to rag on support troops but to say oversight is terribly lacking in that area, and it costs the army a lot of money.</span>

Another good money saver would be to hire contractors for base security rather than put Infantry soldiers in those positions. Ugandans make $20 a day, US soldiers make $130 a day and have insurance, disability, school loans, the GI bill, and other incentives- IE they are not cheap, and the job of glorified mall cop, is a job the Army should be giving to mall cops.

Another money saver would be to absolutely rigidly adhere to fitness standards. The obese soldiers in guard units especially are the only reasonable excuse for 3-5 month train ups. Your more fit personnel will be deployable in 4-6 weeks, seriously enhancing the forces ability to do more with less.

Sometimes management will do a lot- when an OP is manned by 7 soldiers and can be manned with 3, you're wasting 50% of the force.

Training and utilization is another area of poor efficiency- Snipers are often not employed by the Army. They are an incredible force multiplier. That training is solid gold for anti-terrorism. No soldier can control more ground or gather more useful intel on it, than a sniper.

Manning bases will not win wars. It takes creative combat leaders to figure out how to take the war to the enemy and a winning strategy will most likely involve Op's in areas home to the enemy. A network of ever changing, hidden observation posts is probably the best way to catch terrorists. Patrols take ownership of ground so temporarily, the primary purpose they seem to serve is to expose troops to enemy bombs and ambushes.

Sometimes a calculated risk like wearing a plate carrier and patrol cap instead of 30 lbs of stifling movement inhibiting armor makes the difference between a mobile, useful and alert soldier, and a not mobile, not useful, and totally fatigued waste of space. Command policies regarding body armor leave our soldiers at an extreme disadvantage when fighting highly mobile, indigenous terrorists armed with an AK, a few magazines and no other encumbrances.

Power point is not a replacement for training. It's more often a waste of valuable time that could be spent training soldiers how to fight, move, shoot, and work together. CTT training, checking the box, and powerpoint are a waste of time.

Hell- there are entire training FOB's built on military bases. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A TRAINING FOB?? It's like a practice apartment for children on their way to a real apartment. The base is where you live- not what you do.

image1716.jpg

The Army has tools- like the basic rifle marksmanship "Weaponeer" that do a great job of teaching soldiers to shoot. Why a soldier only gets to spend 10 minutes on one in his entire career is beyond me. It looks like cheap valuable training to me. Instead they seem to have adopted MMA fighting as a way to enhance the self image of soldiers who haven't learned basic proficiency with small arms. The fight is a cruel reality- you shoot better or risk death. MMA is not a coping mechanism for a soldier who can't operate his weapon proficiently.

Give your combat troops the best gear. It's a small investment that goes a long way- If you see SF doing something, that's a good indicator it has some value you're failing to understand. Like Sound suppressors. Why haven't they trickled down to line units when every other piece of gear has (ACOG's, eo-techs, rail systems, IR lasers, IR scopes, better helmets, etc). The Army needs to stop taking a command attitude that "this is the way something is supposed to be done" and start letting their NCO's and soldiers have some input.

In some areas we have awesome gear that needs to be improved. The RWS (remote weapon system) great tool- the camera imager however- is absolute crap. Why combine a miracle engagement system with an electronic eye that can't determine friend or foe at 75 meters?

<span style="font-weight: bold">My 9 years in the Army convinced me that the Army was poorly managed and that I could not change anything about it.

It was disappointing coming to the realization that the people in charge were going to reduce the lethality and efficiency of the Army every year and that I would have to watch as the Infantry was slowly bastardized.
</span> </div></div>
 
Re: More with Less

I would add we need to stop waisting time with developing computer training modules. It waists millions if not billions every year. A perfect example of this is the vbsII simulator. Millions spent to develop another video game in the likes of call of duty or something. Soldiers don't become proficient looking at a video game, that makes them fat asses. Spend the money on field training and ammo not a damn video game.
 
Re: More with Less

this country has won wars in the past due to putting forth new technology....


when this country stops the advancement of how to do things in a more efficient manner.....we will lose to those that do
 
Re: More with Less

Griffin said a fair amount of what I can agree to.

I have a friend who I ended up meeting just before I left the service. He ended up going to OCS, Ranger School, and the Sniper Employment Officer course(that's the name I remember), and upon getting to that duty station, he was put in charge of a Infantry battalion's supply unit. All of that training amounted to him in charge of a squad of guys hauling ammo around in a PLS. Instead of him rightfully, by education and qualification, being placed in charge of his battalion's Recon/Sniper section, another LT was placed in that position simply because someone(CO) had a man-crush on him.

That doesn't exlude wanting to win a war at all, when we can't even get over something as simple as that. They Army just wasted all that training when his unit couldn't properly employ him in the position he was trained for.

Think that it is exclusive to just the Combat Arms realm, or officers? Nope. It happened to me during my service as well. All of that training goes to waste when a unit has no use for anyone with that MOS, but they want to keep those people because no unit wants to lose them.
smirk.gif


Also even though the bonuses have dwindled, I'm still ticked at what I saw. What do you give a guy who just spent 5 years(with a good conduct award) for re-enlisting? A backpack. What do you give a kid fresh of the street? $35,000 enlistment bonus and Germany as his first duty station. Somewhere, somehow, someone didn't get the idea that maybe instead of spending more money for all those bonuses, and additional training it would be easier to offer a reduced amount, say $10,000, to someone who is already in service, through one of those existing programs to pick a new job. The BEAR program comes to mind, but that's for STAR MOSs. By this logic I was told by the Army that a shitbag, ex-gangbanger, who got in with the pencil whipping of his recruiter, is more valuable than someone who toes the line.

Also why would the Army need the XM25 from the OICW program, instead of the 5.56 lower? Who keeps resurrecting that abomination? You guys wondering were to save some money? Fire that guy, and the guys who keep spending money developing stupid whiz-bang, Star Wars shit(The ACU wasn't a great idea either). Roll all of that money that you just saved by firing the fat cats and put it into say, the development of a new battle rifle. Also a good idea on that would be to not puss out, like is normally done, and pick something shiny. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Give ALL the entries in that contest to the guys who do the most trigger pulling (NCOs from Delta, SF, Ranger Batts)</span>, and see what they want, and what they pick. They should have been the R&D department on a ton of stuff, but their voices have for some reason been ignored. Start listening to them. If they say that they wanted a mini version of an AT4 that could be reloadable, and fire different types of ammo, then it should be taken as "Hey this is another way to win a war, and these guys just saved up a bunch of money by eliminating shit that just won't work in battle". Has anyone noticed that we can just buy a new upper receiver for a quick fix, until we buy a new rifle?

Also I'm out of the Army, I have been since May, and I actually went back in not more than two weeks ago. I was basically told that I wasn't needed or wanted by the rules that were currently in place. It would cost the Army LESS money to train me up in a new MOS, then it would for them to train a new soldier. They should be calling me up offering all kinds of stuff, cash bonuses, preferred training, assignments, etc.

It's just a simple matter of innovation, and invention. After you have successfully applied that to ALL aspects of the rifleman's life, should the Army be allowed to look at other improvements.
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MN sharpshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would add we need to stop waisting time with developing computer training modules. It waists millions if not billions every year. A perfect example of this is the vbsII simulator. Millions spent to develop another video game in the likes of call of duty or something. Soldiers don't become proficient looking at a video game, that makes them fat asses. Spend the money on field training and ammo not a damn video game. </div></div>

This has some truth- the giant combat simulators I've seen and used (like the mobile convoy training simulators that are built into the back of a freight truck) appear to be far lower quality than a video game from Best Buy.

There may even be training value that can be derived by these simulators (like pointing out a gunner who may not be safe in contact), but troops rotating through these are checking the box- 5 months in mobilization, and they get 3 minutes in this massively expensive simulator.

Bats would appear to be a much more useful simulator [similar to use of force simulators used by police officers], but guard battalions rotate up to use the BATS and an entire company gets 2 hours to cycle through on a weekend during which BATS might be the only scheduled training. A half hour per platoon, 7 minutes per squad. The majority of the soldiers experienced a weekend with the Army for seven minutes of training.

It would really be great if you could rotate a platoon up to their base, and actually put them up in the BATS facility- IE they sleep on the floor and for 48 hours squads cycle through BATS where operators analyze individual soldier performance (IE did soldier A shoot a friendly?- We're his rounds off target? Was his rate of fire too high? <span style="font-style: italic">IE how does the squad leader modify his performance to a state of greater output.</span>

It's not just simulators that have these problems. I remember entire days of training spent in line waiting to fire 17 rounds of 5.56mm ammunition on a CQM course of fire lane that permitted two soldiers to fire and move at the same time. So it took 5-7 hours to cycle the company through the lane.

But why was the company ever sent to the lane? Why not send a platoon per day, one squad at a time, for 2 hours to run the lane several times before moving the squad to another training event - in essence getting four days training value out of two hours, before sending the same squad to four other similar training events for two hours?

Of course I'm taking the worst examples, but obviously is it ever tolerable to waste an entire battalions training time?

Someone in the command has the monumental task of structuring training, and maybe the Army needs 16 people to do that job, so that each training day is critically accessed by a team of motivated leaders and required to deliver effective return on investment.

Technology is a useful tool, but it needs to be one of the tools, occupying perhaps 20% of training time, and not seen as a replacement for field work as it seems to have begun to be viewed by big Army in the recent 2-4 years.

It's those more experienced soldiers like the poster above that the Army fails to properly incentivize to stay, that are precisely the people you need to organize useful field training.

Combat experience is not valued appropriately. The Army seems to take the view that every deployed soldier got combat experience, but that's not the case. In my last year in the Army I could look around and locate a handful of soldiers who had genuine combat experience- maybe 5 people in a freshly organized troop. Those five people were not seen as assets, because they were envied by leaders who didn't have the experience.

The minority of soldiers who actually get real combat experience should be seen as an asset to pull value from, not an envied minority to push out of the club.

 
Re: More with Less

Retention of quality, instead of numbers based.
Quality language an Body language training.
Proactive, less reactive, in all venues.
More operations like Phoenix, less all day, general hammers.
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Retention of quality, instead of numbers based.
Proactive, less reactive, in all venues.


</div></div>
Those two issues are key.

As a soldier in today's Army the mission has a "victim" feel. It's terribly reactive. We so often take a casualty or lose a life before we are even in the fight in this current GWOT.

We can't win with that play-book. We have to figure out how to kill the enemy before we lose a life or take casualties. That's perfect territory for Snipers. Snipers are not reactive.
 
Re: More with Less

I agree with everything posted above. I would also like to add that the check the box training is total waste, no real benefit is gained from it.

In the California National Guard we have whats called the Score Card, basically each unit is graded by their percentage of soldiers who "successfully" complete blocks of training, whether its weapons qual, EO briefs, Suicide prevention, sexual harassment, first aid, etc. etc.

The problem with it is its only about the numbers, there are no true independent evaluators to ensure that the quality of the training is up to par or that the soldiers are even getting anything out of it.

What I found during our AT this year was the Battalion command staff giving the order that only score card training was to be completed, all other training was to be ignored, thus we found ourselves spending days in class rooms getting briefing after briefing on all manners of stupid stuff. That time in the field could have been better used for field training, squad tactics and the like instead of getting lame environmental protect briefs, that's stuff that could have been done during a home station drill.

We are Combat Arms, with the exception of a few female soldiers in the support company, its all guys, we really don't need to have Sexual harassment briefing every other month, but guess what, we do.

We just got 8 giant ass mats for combatives training, who knows how much that cost, but I'm positive that money could have been better used on ammo.

We have a wall locker filled with brand new ACOGs but supply refuses to issue them out because they aren't on the MTOE (might be now)

I simply do not understand the mentality of why we go do weapons qual and use the Matech back up iron sights instead of the optics, whether it be the M68s or the ACOGs. If I get into a firefight I'm going to be using my optic not the irons, they are named back up for a reason.

For what its worth, I replaced my BUIS with my personal Troy, and after I had it zeroed I co witnessed my M68 the best I could without actually verifying it by shooting as we were not allowed to do so. I also swapped the stock for my CTR, added my VTAC sling, BAD lever, AFG, and would do more if I though I could get away with it.

Complete and epic failure.

So what does it all boil down to. . . like those above have mentioned, better time management with training, better quality of training, get rid of or at least reduce the time spent on pointless briefings.

Oh yeah, Multicam works, no reason to spend millions on studies for yet another new pattern, ditch the ACU scheme, and spend the money on that and the research to do a complete swap over to Multicam, It'll be cheaper overall.
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have a wall locker filled with brand new ACOGs but supply refuses to issue them out because they aren't on the MTOE (might be now)
</div></div>

There is no requirement or regulation that optics must be MTOE-d to be signed out. They should be on the Property Books though. If they aren't on the PB they shouldn't be signed out. Either your supply NCO is full of shit, or someone is giving you the wrong answers.
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have a wall locker filled with brand new ACOGs but supply refuses to issue them out because they aren't on the MTOE (might be now)</div></div>

Holy fuck, Rero! I thought my unit was the only one that had that issue! We had brand new ACOG, Aimpoints, and EOTechs sitting in the Arms Room, but for some reason we couldn't complete the training required for that, but we could complete the weekly sexual harassment classes.
smirk.gif


Also I want to add something good and noteworthy for those looking for efficient training. Make the demand for DICE gear. I used it when I was overseas. It was told to me that it was a satellite-based version of MILES, but what matters is that it was probably the best training resource that I have ever come across. It might not be new to some, but if you haven't heard about it, then I suggest you take a look.

I'd say that it's a great teaching tool next to the front, leaning rest.
grin.gif
 
Re: More with Less

I don't know what exactly the issue is, we actually just got our third supply SGT in 6 months, the original one moved up to an office position, we brought in another E-6 from outside, he was there for like 4 months til he got a better gig somewhere else and bounced, and we just got a new guy this month.

Regardless, we should shoot with what we are actually going to use, not the back ups. The way I look at it, if I have to resort to the irons chances are I'm in a situation where I'm pretty well FUBARed.
 
Re: More with Less

My question to the readers is "'Recently the DOD has been dealing with the future reduced budget. 'Do more with less' is quickly becoming the mantra within the ranks of the military. How do the tax payers, veterans, and service men and women parents feel about the 'do more with less' idea? With Iraq drawing down and a political promise of a draw down in Afghanistan, do you think the military could in fact do more with less? I am interested to hear all opinions, possible solutions, or opposing ideas. Please keep the hate comments, or flaming to a minimum as they will be reviwed by my classmates. Thank You.

David W. Gray
MAJ, AR
CGSC SG20C
Veteran: Iraq 03-04, 05-06, Afghanistan 2008-2009

I was active duty in the time between wars, 93-00 The Clinton years Our force was a hollow force I was fortunate to be in the Ranger Regiment where we had a larger budget than many others. I would say that the Clinton admins slashing of Military and other government agencies budgets gave Bin Ladin his door to attack America on 9/11
The "Use the ammo or lose it" mentality where if you budget this and don't use it you don't get it next year leads to ammo spandex exercises, where in our case a truck would pull up dump off a ton of ammo and the Ammo NCO would say shoot it all you will stay in the field till its gone. Unless you had a creative Squad Leader that would come up with Imaginative Training" many would set the guns on tripods and shoot till they burned up barrels and on and on. On Navy ships I have heard of guys kicking ammo in the oceans so they won't have it on their books at the end of the year or end of deployment.
In the grand scheme of things Marksmanship is a low priority for the big ARMY as a whole, many units get to shoot their qual of 40 rounds twice a year.
Our unit used to do work ups Similar to what is below, practice using Irons get zeroed and then put on optics co-witness and leave the optics on the weapons for how you would take the weapon to war.
Day 1 AM. Zero range Iron sights
Day 1 PM. KD range Iron sights
Day 2 AM/PM Qual Iron Sights
Day 3 AM/PM CQB drills Iron Sights
Day 4 AM Zero range Optics
Day 4 PM KD range Optics
Day 5 AM/PM Qual Optics
Day 6 AM/PM Moving targets range
Day 7 AM/PM CQB drills Optics

In the grand scheme of things bullets and marksmanship training is a low cost low tech do more with less easy fix.
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We have a wall locker filled with brand new ACOGs but supply refuses to issue them out because they aren't on the MTOE (might be now)
</div></div>

MTOE is totally gay. That piece of paper is the excuse by which the Army will at times deploy a Sniper Section without any of their issued equipment.

And why does the sniper section not get deployed solely for sniper missions? God knows there are DAMN few snipers in the military and all could be successfully utilized in conflicts.

Someone should look at a deployment and if it offers improper utilization of personnel it should warrant reassignment of the mission, not a modification of MTOE
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have a wall locker filled with brand new ACOGs but supply refuses to issue them out because they aren't on the MTOE (might be now)</div></div>

Holy fuck, Rero! I thought my unit was the only one that had that issue! We had brand new ACOG, Aimpoints, and EOTechs sitting in the Arms Room, but for some reason we couldn't complete the training required for that, but we could complete the weekly sexual harassment classes.
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And the same Army bothers to have retention NCOs.

On one of my deployments I was handed a list to do inventory for leaving the country and saw an error- there were thermal optics 8 of them on the list.

I brought it to the LT's attention and realized he had been storing them under his rack for the whole deployment.

AWESOME!! These are the people the Army puts in charge because college is more important than aptitude.
 
Re: More with Less

There are a lot of frustrations out there with in the ranks, and with in the population. "do more with less" is the same if you are a family with children and your budget gets cut or a military looking at budget cuts. You must learn to be creative with your choice of spending and your choice of training.

I hate to admit it but the world we live in sexual harassment briefings are the way of the future. The Army gets to absolve them selves of all responsibility when they say "we gave him a PPT on not grabbing her tits, its not our fault he did that". Likewise they get to check the box by making E5's babysit Em's during marathon power point sessions while E6 and above have "training meetings" that result in little or no training.

On to my point, if the army wants to be successful doing "more with less" they need to start to streamline their supply chain, modify their training standards to a more contemporary model, and introduce an efficiency plan that trains the most troops in the least time while still being relevant. If private companies ran like the military, they would be out of business in a month.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Modifying the logistics:</span> As stated above, LSA's are over run with people that have nothing to do most of the time, or are doing jobs outside their MOS to fulfill a duty that has no relevance to their support role. There is far too much paperwork involved in getting issue items from point A to point B and into the hands of soldiers. Items are ordered at the beginning of deployments and don't get in the soldiers hands for 6-9 months in some cases. If Wal-Mart had to wait that amount of time to resupply or outfit employees they would have no employees, and empty shelves

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Modifying training standards to relevancy:</span> PT Standards are out of date, plain and simple. We waste a lot of time training folks to pass a test then ignore quality maintenance of a fit force. That is money and time not well spent, this applies to marksmanship, first aid, commo, and all of the basic soldier skills. These are perishable skills that need to be maintained, power point is not quality maintenance, field time is. Units should be training at the platoon and below level to maximize the effective training of basic skills and support units need to train E4 and up to train the force, not E4's supporting their few E6 and E7's by clicking through slides and being mannequins for 1st aid. Relevancy is based on current operations and prior experiences, there is far too little emphasis placed on close quarters dealings with enemy or potential enemy in a fight or potential enemy in a village during civil affairs or non combat type missions. The Military is slow to change its ways, I understand that, but it is dangerously behind the times right now. We face the danger of becoming irrelevant because refuse to see the change that is upon us.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Time management and training</span> spending 24 hours on a range to fire gunnery or dawn to dusk qualifying on ones rifle is poor time management. In total the time behind the gun at many ranges is less than an hour for 24 hours of occupying a range. coordination between range control to OIC to NCOIC to range safety to lane safety takes TOO LONG! I'm guessing Frank can train more people in less time to a higher proficiency level than the military (numbers trained to numbers of instructors) because of a lack of red tape, and a interest in producing a quality product. If Franks product sucked, and a guy got to his class and sat around for 6 hours for 2 hours of instruction the customers would dry up and he would be out of a job.

The military is just simply over managed, there is too much over coordination and too many people that want to eat fromthe same plate. That equals poor use of time.

I hope this makes sense. I truly love the military and truly love serving my country, but hate seeing so much time get wasted. like they say "time is money" and if we can save time we can save money. At the end of the day we are in the employ of the government, with that comes inefficiency by its very nature. That I can accept, but it doesn't have to be as bad as it is. The military can do more with less, it can train to MORE current and relevant standard, and waste LESS time dealing with red tape and outdated practices.

C_K
 
Re: More with Less

Hot damn there's a lot uh' good shit getting passed here.

Keep it up, Gents!
 
Re: More with Less

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">My 9 years in the Army convinced me that the Army was poorly managed and that I could not change anything about it.
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I felt the same way after 8. Well said - the whole thing.
 
Re: More with Less

How about do less with less? I'd rather see the armed forces play more defense and less offense. I don't feel we have accomplished anything in Iraq or Afghanistan that cannot be undone by the first vote after we leave. The US is broke, we can't afford to stay.
 
Re: More with Less

Your way off base, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are not whats causing the US to go broke. Besides that fact it has nothing to do with what is being discussed in the first place. We are not talking about the effectiveness or costs of current operations we are talking about training and equipment with less money. Not the same issue so please leave your anti war rhetoric out of it.
 
Re: More with Less

I have a simple and amazing solution.
If you traing Signal Soldiers to do IT jobs........
WHY DOESNT THE ARMY ALLOW THEM TO DO THIER JOB?
In the united states no 25B, U, or any MOS in a Commo/S6 shop have Administrator rights.
How do we install updates, programs, make user accounts or even re-image computers?
No the Army went with the DOIM and pay them way to much for what soldier ALREADY are trained to do through thier AIT.
I work in an area thats manned and running 24/7. Lets say the head NCO locks out his account. I call in a ticket number and have to wait up to 2 WEEKS sometimes more for a 5 second process.
The way IT is ran in the army is completely and when i say completely backwards I mean it! I can go on FOREVER.
More details PM me I have some incredibly interesting stories....
The army can save billions and I whole heartedly agree with BILLIONS if they could come down to an actual Commo/S6 shop and see what its like.....