Mosin barrel shot out?

[Sugarbug]

I have a 1938 Tula 91/30 and took it to the range on Saturday. I've shot it before with good results, but Saturday, something was pretty off...

I was maintaining the same hold at 100 yards shooting at 10" steel gongs. Some shots would hammer it just fine; others would be high right, then low left, then high center... just all over the place.

On days before this, I was able to consistently hit the gongs at 100 yards while standing. Saturday, I was shooting from the bench with a front rest and getting these results...

Just using irons sights and shooting bulgarian surplus (same I've always shot).

 

[wilecoyote]

control first the action screws proper torque, and see if those bulgarian surplus has leaved something inside your rifle's chamber/barrel (like a brass curl,in my case)_
(I've tried bulg.surp.once only_ never again,thanks_)

 

[Mike Radford]

I agree, check the action screws first. It sounds like that it the probable problem. You can find some better ammo too.

 

[Sugarbug]

I agree, check the action screws first. It sounds like that it the probable problem. You can find some better ammo too.

Cheap is king at this stage of my life, lol. I'll be sure to check the action screws. I just thought it was odd that it was so all over the place when the last time I shot it was hitting very consistently. The bore does look worn so I thought that might be it.

 

[Wannashootit]

Agree. If the action is loose, or has shifted, it would cause erratic POI.
A barrel doesn't go from shooting one way, to completely different, in one shot...
When was the last time you cleaned the barrel, and how?

 

[Sugarbug]

Agree. If the action is loose, or has shifted, it would cause erratic POI.
A barrel doesn't go from shooting one way, to completely different, in one shot...
When was the last time you cleaned the barrel, and how?

The last time I shot it which was probably a few months ago. Bore snake.

 

[wilecoyote]

if you can, try w.a stiff brass bristle brush, oil/solvent & cleaning rod: if you have something solid embedded inside the chamber or the barrel, it will work better than the boresnake, in my opinion_
see also if something has logged himself between barrel & wood_

 

[Mike Radford]

I understand that inexpensive ammo is a plus. Some of the surplus is better than others but it is not real easy to sort out or predict what is the best. I would try to get a box or two of Extra Match and or Target/match. They should not break the bank but will be about $15 a box of twenty if you can find any.

I assume that you used a water based product to clean the bore after firing corrosive surplus ammo? Hopefully you did because coupled with your state's humidity and not cleaning properly could be the problem. You may know this but typically running hot water down the barrel will be enough to deal with the corrosive salts left by milsurp primers. Then clean as you would any other rifle bore.

Good luck and let us know your results. The action screws should be pretty darn tight starting with the front one.

 

[Sugarbug]

I understand that inexpensive ammo is a plus. Some of the surplus is better than others but it is not real easy to sort out or predict what is the best. I would try to get a box or two of Extra Match and or Target/match. They should not break the bank but will be about $15 a box of twenty if you can find any.

I assume that you used a water based product to clean the bore after firing corrosive surplus ammo? Hopefully you did because coupled with your state's humidity and not cleaning properly could be the problem. You may know this but typically running hot water down the barrel will be enough to deal with the corrosive salts left by milsurp primers. Then clean as you would any other rifle bore.

Good luck and let us know your results. The action screws should be pretty darn tight starting with the front one.

Alright. You guys are great. Both receiver screws were loose and the front one could be turned with a finger nail. Hard to believe I wouldn't tighten them down when I put it back on the stock, but maybe I did. Or maybe they shot loose. Either way, they were loose.

Took some more time to clean the barrel. Still very dirty. Used windex at first to make sure the corrosion stopped then a series of bore cleaner and frog lube. Looks a lot better and I'll have to get out soon to make sure she's shooting straight again.

Thank you all for the help.

 

[Joop]

Mosins are notorious for shooting loose. I make it a point to check them every time before I shoot and, on some of them, in between strings of fire, too.

 

[ScharfshutzeK98]

Mosins are notorious for shooting loose. I make it a point to check them every time before I shoot and, on some of them, in between strings of fire, too.

Wise words

 

[wilecoyote]

....GRIN...
loctite tread locker first, and some fine-point marker to draw a line running from both the ends of the screwhead's cuts to the next surfaces, indexing them_
if something would move, you will see it without wasting ammos_
good shooting!

 

[Sugarbug]

Thank you, gentlemen.

 

[Joop]

I think this is one of the reasons that 91/30s get a bad rap for accuracy. Most people don't check the screws, or don't know how to properly tighten them (not that it should be expected for everyone to know it. They're more sensitive to it than pretty much any other rifle I've used). To compound the problem, a majority of these rifles are in stocks that have been through at least one war, if not several. The inlets were not that great to begin with (especially during WW2) and through compression, or being shot when loose, they only get worse. This can be usually be corrected through shimming, if you know what to watch out for. However, if I were going to put together a 91/30 for accuracy, I would use a postwar stock. The inlets are usually of much better quality and they haven't seen as much (if any) use.

Happy Shooting!

John

 

[Tango down]

I second all of the above, I check action screws before, during and after shooting. My torque wrench became a permanent resident of my range bag, as I used to have the same issues. I make sure I always torque action screws to the same specs, so it stay consistent.

 

[Wannashootit]

Action screw torque values are important, but can be really difficult to maintain with consistency depending on the stock.
The MN's I own that I actually shoot long-range are of course pillar bedded- but you might consider whether the metal shims offered for sale by some might help. Seems to me that- for example- if the rear tang (which is angled) is only making actual contact with a small section of the wood in the stock, that area is going to be easily compressed with torque on the action screw- and go from tight to loose in a heartbeat. Adding a metal shim would distribute that torque load, and perhaps maintain more consistent torque with an old wood stock.

Inletting on these old wartime stocks was never precise to begin with, and with wear only gets worse. Wood compresses...and compresses...and compresses...

And don't forget the blue threadlocker...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Without a borescope, it could be hard to tell. I suppose one could use a tight patch and feel around in the throat area for roughness. Not sure what no roughness might mean, but I'm also inclined to think that roughness should indicate surface separation(s) that usually accompany a demolished throat.

A poorly cleaned bore could have crown issues. Many of these rifles have counterbored muzzles, and the true crown is actually recessed some ways down the bore, well out of normal sight. Pitting, corrosion, and/or accumulated crud could be negating the arsenal's medieval counterboring efforts to restore old bores.

I have a Mosin that has a stiff bolt, but the chamber isn't at issue. I think that stock compression has caused binds between the lower and upper receiver assemblies. I plan to try some shims and see how that might or might not help. I will be investigating using neoprene foam sheeting as shims/bedding pads. I seriously doubt that precise torque values are crucial with the M-N. and generally align screw slots parallel to the bore line or perpendicular, whichever 'feels' right. Closer to perfection than that doesn't appeal to me, we're not talking BR actions here.

Greg

 

[kraigWY]

I was able to consistently hit the gongs at 100 yards while standing. Saturday, I was shooting from the bench with a front rest and getting these results...

Ever think you might be changing the harmonics of the barrel using the front rest. Try shooting while standing on your hind legs and see what happens.

 

[Sugarbug]

It's not the first time I've used the rest, but it is the first time I had this problem. Being that the receiver screws were very loose, I'm leaning that that was the cause.

 

[hounddawg]

Good. At least that's an easy fix. When I shoot milsurp ammo, I clean the rifle with Rusty Duck (muzzleloader solvent) first to get rid of the corrosive salts, and then I use an oil-based solvent. I learned about the salts being water soluble after dang near ruining a 1925 Mosin Nagant Dragoon.

 

[MJ1]

I have never been one for sporting Mosin rifles but they are strong actions. I have been reading some stories of a guy who puts MMG barrels on MN actions. Leaves them in original countered or turns them down.



I think it's interesting to read how they time the extractors and some other tricks.

 

[ScharfshutzeK98]

I would get an inch pound screwdriver for your range bag and check the action screws while shooting. I believe that the general consensus is 35 inch lbs. of course it will help if there are shims involved. I offer an accurizing kit that may help with your issues. Email me at [email protected] for info.

 

[Sharpsman]

They make good boat anchors...if you tie a cinder block to 'em!!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The front rest position needs to be consistent for each shot. I try to place the rest just about under the rear band (just ahead of where the stock 'bellies'), I suspect the thin forward section of the stock rebounds with the barrel, and may be affecting the POI.

Greg

 

[tomcat mv]

I have several Mosin's and have shimmed the tang and lug on all of them. Just cut some shims out of a beer can. and like stated above torgue the action screws to 35-40 inch lbs. Works for me.

 

[Sugarbug]

Got out to shoot this again last weekend. It was the action screws. Back to its moderately accurate self.