Mosin Sniper out to 763 yards

[Pinecone]

I have a repro Mosin sniper rifle (from Cabelas in PA). I have spent some time at the range (and online learning about how things work) getting it somewhat dialed in. Also working the trigger from over 8 pounds with a LOT of creep, down to just under 4 pounds with a small amount of creep.

But over the weekend, I took it down to Bang Steel range (review of Bang Steel course here - http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...eivew-bang-steel-long-range-rifle-course.html) while down there shooting my .308 again.

So I finalized the zero at 200 yards and then played some on the longer range steel. I started at 535 yards with the scope set to 5 on the elevation. Elevation was good, and then had to dial in some windage. It seems that the windage knob gradations are at 1/2 MOA per line. Got about a 3rd round hit.

Then stepped out to 600 yards. This time I had to tweek the elevation a bit, but got on the steel with a couple of rounds. And followed it up with two more hits.

Then for real fun, stepped out to 763 yards on a 12" square plate (about 1.5 MOA). It took about 3 - 4 rounds to get on target with a bit more windage and a tweek of elevation. But managed to bang the steel at 763 yards with a 1943 rifle.

I was shooting PPU 182 gr ammunition.

Great fun. Hardest part was finding the targets with a fixed 3.5x scope.

Much harder than with my .308 (Remington 700 PS-1, Manners T-4A with MCS, Vortex Viper PST 6-24 FFP, Timney trigger).

 

[lash]

That sounds like it was fun. I know that fun is the main reason I picked up a Mosin. You say it's a repro Mosin sniper rifle. I assume that means it's a real Mosin, but the sniper package is repro, correct?

 

[Paddywagon]

Awesome! Sounds like a lot of fun! I haven't shot my MN sniper past 200 yds, but I'm thinking i should try. You are right about the PU scopes! They are hard to pick things up being the low magnification. That and the optics aren't real great either. Mine has yellowed over the years.

 

[Pinecone]

Yes, real Mosin, but likely not a sniper rifle in WWII. PU scope, mount, proper bolt handle. But scope looks very nice, clear, sharp reticle, no yellowing.

It took me a while to get the mount dialed in. I had to file the mount to get the windage close.

I did find that orange painted targets are easier to see in the scope.

 

[Joop]

Good job!

The more you do it and get your dope down, the easier it will get. It's never "easy", but you know what I mean. Just curious, when you say "zero at 200 yards", is that with the elevation set at "2"?

Again, good job and thanks for posting. There are still plenty of people out there who are clinging to the myth that these guns can't shoot. Certainly not the case, as you have shown!

John

 

[LanceS4803]

Great fun. Hardest part was finding the targets with a fixed 3.5x scope.

Gives you a MUCH greater appreciation for the Russians that used those rifles in combat.
I have an original MN sniper that I have used for hunting. Kind of fun to handicap yourself with that scope.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

As documented elsewhere on this forum, a comparatively functional equivalent can be built up using current inexpensive optics and mounts, that allows the rifle to be shot to its potential. Russian 147gr surplus spamcan ammo and a functionally good package can attain 2MOA, maybe better.

Greg

 

[Pinecone]

I have "zeroed" the rifle several times.

It took me a while to find out how to adjust the turrets to read the proper reading after zeroing.

Then I started messing with filing the mount of windage and working with the elevation adjustment of the mount.

I did not have a lot of time to shoot it at shorter ranges this time, as Dan had a class waiting (we went out early, but ran into some snags). So shot it at 100, with the dial set to 100, and was WAY high. So just moved to the 200 yard target, and was still high. So dialed the scope down to 0 on the turret and was a couple of inches high at 200 yards. But it was close enough, and the dial is in meters.

So I adjusted the turret to read 2 at that point, then shot the longer range targets (different firing position, so not interfering with the class).

I plan on taking it back at a later date and actually working out some serious dope. This was just for fun. But it is hard to make small elevation adjustments with the turret setup.

I also need to figure out the mil or MOA dimensions of the reticle elements, so I have some reference for a bit of hold off or over.

 

[Mike Radford]

I have "zeroed" the rifle several times.

It took me a while to find out how to adjust the turrets to read the proper reading after zeroing.

Then I started messing with filing the mount of windage and working with the elevation adjustment of the mount.

I did not have a lot of time to shoot it at shorter ranges this time, as Dan had a class waiting (we went out early, but ran into some snags). So shot it at 100, with the dial set to 100, and was WAY high. So just moved to the 200 yard target, and was still high. So dialed the scope down to 0 on the turret and was a couple of inches high at 200 yards. But it was close enough, and the dial is in meters.

So I adjusted the turret to read 2 at that point, then shot the longer range targets (different firing position, so not interfering with the class).

I plan on taking it back at a later date and actually working out some serious dope. This was just for fun. But it is hard to make small elevation adjustments with the turret setup.

I also need to figure out the mil or MOA dimensions of the reticle elements, so I have some reference for a bit of hold off or over.

It is pretty easy to make elevation or windage adjustments once you get used to a PU. Remember, this scope was released in 1940. It is simple and robust. Compare it with a Weaver 330. It totally blows the 330 away. Range estimation is possible with the reticule. Trajectory compensation is available by just dialing it in. Scope is fairly weather proof and functions at -50 or 100 degrees. The ZF-4 was largely based on the PU. When the Germans use a Soviet scope, or any weapon, for their development you can be sure the Soviets were on to something.

As I recall, the windage numbers amount to about 3.9 MOA per each full hash mark of change. When I zero a PU I get the elevation roughed in by bore sighting at 100 yds. The elevation screws on the mount should be used to get the scope zeroed to 100 set at 1 on the elevation turret. The reticule pointer should be pretty darn high in the scope at 100 yds. When you adjust for elevation at longer ranges, say set at 3 for 300 meters, if you need to fine tune it go very small increments, like 2.7 or whatever. For windage, all you need to do is shoot it and once you have an average point of impact and point the rifle at the target center and move the reticule to the current average point of impact while keeping the rifle still. You can use the same basic technique at any range to get the elevation set. Trying to move the adjustments like you would a modern scope, i.e. one click for eary 0.25 inches at 100 yds, will not work well with a PU. A little movement goes a long ways, like I said about 4 inches per single mark of windage. Reshoot and check as needed.

Once you get used to them, and reject using them like a modern scope, they are pretty straight forward.

 

[Pinecone]

Hmm, mine seemed to be 1/2 MOA per windage mark.

But the hardest part is figuring out that when you loosen the two screws to adjust the turret once zeroed, you move the SCALE, not the whole turret.

 

[milprileb]

Don't stop at 763 yards !

Yo can go all the way to 1000 yds .

And that PU scope works fine at 1000 yds.

Of course, its no Nightforce 25x but you can do fine on a NRA bullseye.

18 inch piece of steel.....no I don't think so but never say never.

 

[Tempest 455]

If you start hanloading for the Mosin, accuracy will be even better. The PPU is marginal. Best box ammo is the Russian match surplus.

If it's shoots that good w/ PPU, it should be really good with a dialed in handload.

 

[Pinecone]

I did not try 1040, as the target was in shadow and VERY hard to see. And even harder for my spotter to call the misses.

And yes, I will work up a load for the rifle. I have a few hundred Hornady match bullets to try. .311

And I have a few boxes of Hornady Steel Match to try. And thinking about picking up some of the Russian match and PPU also makes a match round.

 

[Tempest 455]

PPU match round still is not as good as the Russian 182g round.

 

[Tango down]

I have "zeroed" the rifle several times.

It took me a while to find out how to adjust the turrets to read the proper reading after zeroing.

Then I started messing with filing the mount of windage and working with the elevation adjustment of the mount.

I did not have a lot of time to shoot it at shorter ranges this time, as Dan had a class waiting (we went out early, but ran into some snags). So shot it at 100, with the dial set to 100, and was WAY high. So just moved to the 200 yard target, and was still high. So dialed the scope down to 0 on the turret and was a couple of inches high at 200 yards. But it was close enough, and the dial is in meters.

So I adjusted the turret to read 2 at that point, then shot the longer range targets (different firing position, so not interfering with the class).

I plan on taking it back at a later date and actually working out some serious dope. This was just for fun. But it is hard to make small elevation adjustments with the turret setup.

I also need to figure out the mil or MOA dimensions of the reticle elements, so I have some reference for a bit of hold off or over.

Pinecone

I saw Joop's question and your answer; I have a '43 Tula MN sniper and did also try the factory PPU 182 gr a while ago, they shot high. To get in sync with my scope's elevation and to keep the crosshairs/post where I wanted it to be, I found out that 44.6 gr of Varget, or 52.5 gr of Accurate 4350 give satisfactory results. Cannot remember OTB dimension but got it in dope book, if interested.
Considering that your elevation turret was set on 5 for 535 yards, which is 489 meters, that's good. What about closer, or further out, does your turret still matches the distance (ex: set to 8 for 800 meters/880 yards)?
I use 174 gr SMK bullets, .311 diameter (.303 cal), my rifle slugged at .313; also tried the Hornady .312 but the SMK worked better in my rifle, PPU brass, regular federal large rifle primers, I also tried the match primers but did not notice any difference. Shot the '43 up to 960 yards, the 3.5 PU, loads and rifle were still up to the task in a very consistent manner (target 15"x24").
Two of my friends shot this rifle at 500 meters, one was dead on for every shot; the other one had issue with the scope, as there is no possibility to focus, so it does also depends on your vision, modern scope have more bells and whistles to get in sync with the shooter's eyes. Nevertheless, if your target was in the shade, it makes it more challenging.
Congrats on your shooting, for a regular MN, it delivers quite well. Just another proof that these old rifles, in the hands of a good shooter, can still deliver lead accurately much further than most people's expectations.
Keep up the good work

 

[Mike Radford]

Pinecone

I saw Joop's question and your answer; I have a '43 Tula MN sniper and did also try the factory PPU 182 gr a while ago, they shot high. To get in sync with my scope's elevation and to keep the crosshairs/post where I wanted it to be, I found out that 44.6 gr of Varget, or 52.5 gr of Accurate 4350 give satisfactory results. Cannot remember OTB dimension but got it in dope book, if interested.
Considering that your elevation turret was set on 5 for 535 yards, which is 489 meters, that's good. What about closer, or further out, does your turret still matches the distance (ex: set to 8 for 800 meters/880 yards)?
I use 174 gr SMK bullets, .311 diameter (.303 cal), my rifle slugged at .313; also tried the Hornady .312 but the SMK worked better in my rifle, PPU brass, regular federal large rifle primers, I also tried the match primers but did not notice any difference. Shot the '43 up to 960 yards, the 3.5 PU, loads and rifle were still up to the task in a very consistent manner (target 15"x24").
Two of my friends shot this rifle at 500 meters, one was dead on for every shot; the other one had issue with the scope, as there is no possibility to focus, so it does also depends on your vision, modern scope have more bells and whistles to get in sync with the shooter's eyes. Nevertheless, if your target was in the shade, it makes it more challenging.
Congrats on your shooting, for a regular MN, it delivers quite well. Just another proof that these old rifles, in the hands of a good shooter, can still deliver lead accurately much further than most people's expectations.
Keep up the good work

Well said. I agree.

 

[Centuriator]

Wow, that's fanastic, makes me want to watch "Enemy at the Gates" again today.

 

[Pinecone]

PPU match round still is not as good as the Russian 182g round.

Thanks. Good to know.

 

[Pinecone]

The elevation turret seemed to be pretty close at all ranges, once I got it set. I have the back of the mount almost as high as it will go. And then still had to adjust the turret slightly. IIRC, it was on target at 200 yards, with the turret set to 0. I reset the scale to just under 200.

I did not actually take good notes on shooting it. It was more for fun. I need to work up a load and they do serious dope on it. But the small amount of rotation for fairly large changes in range will not help.

Thanks for the load info. I will see about getting some SMKs also to try.

And next time we head down to Bang Steel, I will try it out to at least 1000 yards.

Has anyone figured out the angular size of the reticle pieces?

 

[GerryVa]

There is a video on Youtube of a guy shooting a Mosin sniper at 1000 yrds . The bullet drops aprox 36' at that range,you can see the vapor trail and the angle of the bullet hitting the target in the video. I have several Mosins , Love em. I built a custom using a UK-59 barrel, that thing shoots better than I do.