moving into precision with 6.5CM

[SpeedyR]

So I finally “pulled the trigger” on a longer range rifle last week. I won’t see it for a few months (PVA John Hancock 6.5 CM) so in the mean time I can start to look for deals on components. Below are a few questions, but also some additional background.

I’ve been reloading rifle and pistol calibers for years. Probably 15+ different calibers. BUT didn’t really ever do any "precision" reloading, it was more about working up a load for a hunting rifle, or just putting together a bunch of rounds for trips to the range with friends.

I don’t have access to a long range that’s close to my house (I live in the city) but might join a club that goes out to 600. Most of the closer ranges go out to maybe 300. Ideally I’d like to go with some friends and shoot maybe 2-3 PRS style matches a year, maybe more if the bug hits (too many hobbies and family). Mostly just shooting paper, steel and possibly deer hunting with the rig.

Currently I have an RCBS Rock Chucker and Dillon 550 (I will probably invest in a Forster Co-Ax in the near future). Have always used RCBS or Lee dies (factory crimp or some calibers I don’t shoot much). Have the stuff to trim cases (Lyman manual accutrimmer or Frankford Arsenal trim prep station with upgraded RCBS carbide cutter and VLD/Deburr tools). RCBS primer pocket uniformers, Lyman Flash Hole cleaner, etc. The standard case prep tools. A couple of scales (Dillon and RCBS beam scales and a GemPro 250 digital), powder throws, tricklers, etc. I have a basic Caldwell chronograph that has worked well so far. Might borrow a friends Magnetospeed to confirm findings. Have the hornady LNL OAL gauge to check jump once I get the rifle in hand.

As I move into the 6.5, my goal is to work on my skills and be a solid ½-3/4 MOA shooter if possible. I know it’s a rabbit hole but I don’t have the time or $$ to chase tiny holes. Yes I am constrained by budget, but don’t mind spending a bit more if the quality is worth it (or I can find second hand for a deal- best option!).

So here are my questions:

• Dies- I assume I will want Full length and a neck sizing die- Full length to get brass back into SAAMI spec, and neck sizing for after I develop a load and can get a couple of reloads without having the bump the shoulder back. (slim chance I would rebarrel a 308 AR I have into 6.5 but that’s another story). Get some basic RCBS FL dies, or Gold Medal, or Forster/Redding neck size/micrometer seating die?
• Brass- I probably have access to a decent amount of Hornady 6.5 once fired brass at a very fair price (more than likely fired from an AR, so the full length/SB dies might be in order). In the past I’ve shot a lot of Starline brass, and sounds like their SRP brass is good to go these days. Is SRP brass worth getting? I have a few k FGMM large rifle primers but also have a large variety of small rifle primers, but nothing match level. Peterson brass? Lapua?
• Bullets- again the go to for most decent performance seems to be the Hornady ELD-M/ELD-X (if I take it hunting). 140gr seems to be what a lot of folks are shooting from Hornady factory ammo but they make 100/120/123/130/140/147 ELD-M. I’ve shot SMK’s in the past but the ELD seems to be the current favorite for many.
• Powder- seems the go to is H4350 or RL16. I have IMR 4064, Varget, and others but assume I’ll get some H4350 soon.
• Prep- the only thing I think I might look into is something to turn necks for consistent tension, and a way to anneal the brass (probably the salt dip method as I have a spare unused Lee pot already from casting). Anything else I might be missing?

That should keep me busy for a while, and suggestions or pointers welcome!

 

[spife7980]

Dies- I wouldnt bother with a neck sizing die, stick with a full length die. It appears you think a full length has to size the brass all the way back to the minimum saami specs. Thats not how most are using them for precison rifle. I measure the case with a hornady headspace comparator and then use the full length die to only size it back .001-.002" in a bolt or .003-.004" in a semi. This method avoids over working your brass like when you size to minimum saami specs and it also avoid your inevitable neck sizing pitfalls of over sized case diameters making chambering impossible.

Brass- Your hancock should come with a small firing pin so you also have the option of small primer lapua which is probably the best but peterson, alpha, norma etc all make great brass. Small primer means that there is more material remaining in the case head (smaller primer=less brass displacement). I wouldnt bother developing the federal brass unless you plan to discard it at matches etc, it is soft and fails quicker than other types. Hornady isnt great but its alright and makes loosing it less painful.

Bullets- ELDs are great for the price but so are RDFs, sierras can be had for a not bad price. Really most any match bullet these days will be a good bet. Buy 100 of each and see what shoots best.

Powder- Stick to the H4350/RL16 and youll be fine. Some people use slower powders as well like rl26 and h1000 and have been getting alright results, varget and the like is to slow Ive read except for the light bullets.

Prep- I would just try to get your dillon set up good for precison instead of buying a another single stage. It will make the time pass much quicker.

 

[LucasJ1990]

I love my lapua brass with the cci 450 primers. The brass will last a long time and the smaller primers seem to be a tad more consistent for accuracy. I use H4350 powder behind a 147 eld-m projectile. I am still developing a load for my rifle though. I shot a few rounds at a match last weekend and it did fairly well, but I need to do some more testing.

 

[CJS-6.5]

I would pick up a Chargemaster or similar. I haven't had luck with powder throws. I like to weigh every load during load development, and every 10th during volume loading. And of course weigh and sort your brass.

 

[SpeedyR]

Dies- I wouldnt bother with a neck sizing die, stick with a full length die. It appears you think a full length has to size the brass all the way back to the minimum saami specs. Thats not how most are using them for precison rifle. I measure the case with a hornady headspace comparator and then use the full length die to only size it back .001-.002" in a bolt or .003-.004" in a semi. This method avoids over working your brass like when you size to minimum saami specs and it also avoid your inevitable neck sizing pitfalls of over sized case diameters making chambering impossible.

I was assuming the FL die would be mainly used if I end up with once fired brass. it would more than likely come from AR platform rifles, so using a FL so I could start with everything being equal. In my head it seems like the best consistent brass would be to FL resize the once fired brass (not from my rifle), then shoot it once in my rifle and then prep them all equally with consistent length, neck tension, etc. and bump the shoulder if needed. I know you can adjust the FL dies out a bit to not size as much and just what is needed.

I've got the Hornady bullet comparator, but will pick up the headspace version as well.

I'll watch the videos and hopefully learn some new info!

 

[spife7980]

I was assuming the FL die would be mainly used if I end up with once fired brass. it would more than likely come from AR platform rifles, so using a FL so I could start with everything being equal. In my head it seems like the best consistent brass would be to FL resize the once fired brass (not from my rifle), then shoot it once in my rifle and then prep them all equally with consistent length, neck tension, etc. and bump the shoulder if needed. I know you can adjust the FL dies out a bit to not size as much and just what is needed.

I've got the Hornady bullet comparator, but will pick up the headspace version as well.

I'll watch the videos and hopefully learn some new info!

In that case I would only size a couple down like you say and fire those to find out how long your chamber is and then only size the rest down as far as required.
I wouldnt size all of them down to minimum specs, that could cause all of your brass to be short lived.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I neck size, but not the same way as most understand it. I adjust my F/L die to only size the end portion (1/2 to 1/3) of the neck. If you can twist the bullet in the case with your fingers at all, resize a longer portion of the neck. There are some theoretical advantages to this that I won't go into here.

Because I shoot the 260, I can use a 308 die to bump the shoulders without touching the neck, and I don't have to mess with my F/L die adjustment. My press is an RL550b at least 20 years old. The 260 is close enough to consider as nearly identical to the 6.5CM, but has some small advantages (slightly larger capacity, and I can use 7-08 brass as an alternative brass source). The differences between 260 and 6.5CM are small enough to consider negligible, but load data should not be interchanged. I've never tried SRP brass, and I don't feel a need to. All my other dies are RCBS; my 260 dies are Hornady New Dimensions, due to being a gift.

Small Base Dies are only needed if 'normal' dies contribute to case extraction issues, prove that before buying any. SB dies are usually only needed for semi's, mainly because they attempt to extract the case immediately upon firing, and are usually not needed for bolt guns because the case tends to finish shrinking back down before a manual extraction takes place. If a fired case cannot be reinserted into the bolt gun's chamber with little to no finger pressure, I think that would justify an SB die.

IMHO, the most critical step is charge measurement. I use a Chargemaster Lite, and it gets my charges near enough to identical that it's not worth worrying about. My Dillon powder measures are no longer used.

I only recently added an RCBS case prep center, mainly because I now shoot enough military brass to be wanting a motorized crimp remover. Otherwise, I only ream flash holes. All of my case prep is complete before the first (re)loading.

Never, never, never, ever, ever, ever lean down onto the load stage of an electronic powder measure; it's just plain bad Juju.

I tape my stage cover into place, those damned cats get everywhere. Our Daughter moved in recently, bringing four cats, which would have brought the total up to six. My Wife refused to let them in the house, so they reside out in the Garage/Shop extension. It's a sore subject, especially for me...

I've been using H-4350, but recent experimentation with the 147 ELD-X produced undesirable pressures and prompts me to consider H-4831 (also because I have a 28" barrel).

I have simplified my reloading process after several decades of trying out all the special tools and tricks. Whatever you do, consistency will be the most useful tool in your handloading process. If I was a BR shooter, I'd be doing all those tricks and techniques.

I have never turned or annealed a case neck, all of whatever ammunition related accuracy I get comes from load development. I always single/hand feed my target bolt guns, so magazine length is not a factor in my load development except for AR's.

Finally, load development will exact an unavoidable overhead on bore life. Try to keep that overhead to a minimum.

Hot loads are counterproductive (all loads require wind correction, and hot loads will just kill the barrel sooner on top of all that); it's better to find accuracy at a lower node, the barrel will last longer and the load will be in use longer as well.

Greg

 

[SpeedyR]

Thanks all for the good feedback. I guess I'll start with the basics and see what that gets me, and see if I need to make any changes based upon feedback of my groupings...