Advanced Marksmanship Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

[Hellbender]

Is the dope the same for the shooter moving as a moving target?

Say a shooter in a car going 10 MPH, would lead be the same as a 10MPH moving target?

I'm thinking the bullet speed being faster on the shooter end vs. slower on the target end would change something, but I guess the total bullet travel time would be the same??

Any physics guys around??

Thanks!

 

[Center Mass]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

The amount of hold off should be the same but you will hold behind the target or "lag" as opposed to lead. The momentum of the rifle moving will carry the round onto the target....and that's about all I know.

CM

 

[Photon]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Center Mass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The amount of hold off should be the same but you will hold behind the target or "lag" as opposed to lead. The momentum of the rifle moving will carry the round onto the target....and that's about all I know.

CM</div></div>

+1
Law of Inertia

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

The bullet doesn't care who's moving. It just knows where it's pointed.

Yes, if you are moving you "lag" the target.

Planning any drive by's?

 

[bluegrasspicker]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

My guess is that the lead from a moving vehicle would be the same as towards a moving target only if you factored in the "crosswind" that your hand feels when you stick it out the window. I agree with what was said previously if you're ignoring air resistance.

That's just a guess, though.
Bob

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

Close up, I'm sure it would be close enough, but just for discussion, say a no wind shot at 600 yards?

I would think that the 10 mph wind (say traveling at 10 mph), up close at the shooter, would affect the bullet much more.

Also the inertia of the traveling shot would cause the bullet to travel in an ARC to the target (more time of flight).

Where a TARGET traveling 10 mph, the bullet would be traveling in a straight line and intercept the target.

I bet it would be a lot different, the more you think about it.

 

[WunderDog]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

The bullet will not arc. That is optical illusion that occurs when you are moving and you throw or 'project' an object. Think about the forces involved. Once the initial projecting force is put upon the object, there is no continuing force to cause it to curve.

And to address the initial question, you do have to trail the target. I know this as I know someone who did quite a bit of goose hunting out of an airplane - yes it is illegal and no, don't ask. I know it took quite a bit of getting used to in terms of how far you had to trail them by when aiming.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

It's called a "reverse lead" ... we do it from the helicopter on the move.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

but it's more fun from an Impala with spinaz yo!

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WunderDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bullet will not arc. That is optical illusion that occurs when you are moving and you throw or 'project' an object. Think about the forces involved. Once the initial projecting force is put upon the object, there is no continuing force to cause it to curve.

</div></div>

WunderDog...

As you are adding a 10 mph sideways vector, the bullet IS traveling a longer distance to get to the target. IE, the bullet is traveling BOTH point forward AND 10 mph sideways.

I've shot handguns a lot from moving vehicles (under 30 yards) and am aware of the reverse lead. But at these close ranges the interesting things that happen at long distances are so small as to be inconsequential.

LL- From the helicopter, what speed is the chopper running and what distance is involved?

How much does the reverse lead amount to??

 

[Lindy]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

You don't have enough information or time to compute a reverse lead from a helicopter. What you do is make your best estimate, watch the impact of the bullet, and correct. It's an art, not a science.

 

[keithtb1]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

Is that reverse lead only for a stationary target? Or will matching speed negate the reason for a lead; say a moving vehicle chasing another vehicle.

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keithtb1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that reverse lead only for a stationary target? Or will matching speed negate the reason for a lead; say a moving vehicle chasing another vehicle. </div></div>

The matching speed would negate leads at closer distances.

It's the longer distances I am interested in.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Moving SHOOTER, lead same as moving TARGET??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't have enough information or time to compute a reverse lead from a helicopter. What you do is make your best estimate, watch the impact of the bullet, and correct. It's an art, not a science.
</div></div>

That is why most LR shooting from Helo's involves automatic weapons and tracers.