Rifle Scopes Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

[strick9]

Having owned SnB, NF, Swaro and Kahles but never a Leupy I got some ques for you MK 4 pros.I need another dial up optik that won't break the bank has reasonable glass and weight for a lightweight rig and considering strongly a MK4( unless you have a truly viable option quality and weight wise). Use will be for hunting only and very infrequent shots from 500yd to 800yd most shots 100 to 500..
Now for hunting only I have a couple of questions?
Can a SnB/Swaro owner be happy with the Glass? Clear freak here for sure.
Do the M3 turrets allow you enough precision?
How do you like the BDC especially for 300 wm and 308?
Are the M1 knobs in the way as much as they appear to be?, ie do they snag on everything?
Which would you choose?
and just for chits WTF don't they make the M3 in 1/4 moa or .1 mill? I looked at the M2 but don't need the illum.

Again this would be for hunting only. I am skeptical about a 5-800yd shot where one click moves impact 5-8 inches per, but also despise that tall ass turret of the M1. Your opinion?

Kind Regards

 

[dmg308]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

The M3 is 1 moa per click not mil.It was designed so it could go to 100yds with 1 turn.1 moa is fine for field work a little course for competitions.The m3 IMO is still the best scope leupold ever built.The TMR reticle is great for quick holdovers.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

After 500 yards I think that 1 moa is a little rough for taking shots on game animals, I'd strongly suggest the M1 turrets for hunting.

For hunting I've got VXIII 3-10x40 scopes with just the M1 elevation knob, it's really not that much taller than the M3 and then leave the windage knob stock with the cover.

 

[Turk]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

M3 for hunting!

 

[strick9]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

DMG, I must have misstyped something. I am aware the M3 is one moa per click elevation and .5 moa windage.

Man if they made the m3 in .5 or better 1/4moa or .1mill elev and 50 mill obj now they would have something.

So the M1 doesn't grab everything that comes near?

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STRICK9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having owned SnB, NF, Swaro and Kahles but never a Leupy I got some ques for you MK 4 pros.I need another dial up optik that won't break the bank has reasonable glass and weight for a lightweight rig and considering strongly a MK4( unless you have a truly viable option quality and weight wise). Use will be for hunting only and very infrequent shots from 500yd to 800yd most shots 100 to 500..
Now for hunting only I have a couple of questions?
Can a SnB/Swaro owner be happy with the Glass? Clear freak here for sure.
Do the M3 turrets allow you enough precision?
How do you like the BDC especially for 300 wm and 308?
Are the M1 knobs in the way as much as they appear to be?, ie do they snag on everything?
Which would you choose?
and just for chits WTF don't they make the M3 in 1/4 moa or .1 mill? I looked at the M2 but don't need the illum.

Again this would be for hunting only. I am skeptical about a 5-800yd shot where one click moves impact 5-8 inches per, but also despise that tall ass turret of the M1. Your opinion?

Kind Regards
</div></div>

Strick9,

Lots of questions, here are a few answers:

1) Leupold is not a clear optically as S&B, Swaro, or Kahles. Leupold's are not bad, just not as good.

2) M3 turrets are not about precision, they are about speed....Precision and M3 turrets, are not compatible. However, they are very fast to dial, and the "precision" is adequate for hunting use, IMHO. Further if you bought an M3, Leupold will change out your M3 elevation turret for a M2 for $89.00. Assuming were speaking of LR/T MK4 variables?

3) The BDC cams work well for only the loads they were made for. But Kenton and Leupold will make you a custom dial with your own data.

4) If weight is a concern, the 3.5-10x40mm MK 4's weigh 19.5 oz. But you can get a MR/T, 2.5-8x36mm that weighs 16 oz, and has M2 turrets without illumination. This one: Leupold 2.5-8x36 Mark 4 MR/T 30mm Riflescope Stock # - LEU60160, for under a grand.

5) M1 turrets do not snag on everything. Just somethings, just like your bolt knob. M1's are not scabbard friendly though.

6) If it was me, I pass on Leupold and buy this: SWFA 3-9x42mm FFP MIL/MIL scope for $599.00. This one: SWFA SS 3-9x42MM

The glass is as good, if not better than my Mk4, is has Mildots, FFP, and 0.1 Mil adjustments, and is cheaper. I have one, and am considering buying another.

M2 turrets if you have to have a Leupold and like mixed MIL/MOA and SFP reticle systems, or MIL reticle w/ MIL turrets like SWFA, are two of the better ways to go, again IMHO. But there are a whole host of other scopes, not mentioned above, that are also worth a look. Search is your friend, use it....

Bob

 

[csgw]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

I really like the M3 and the M2 for hunting myself.

Mike

 

[bgold]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

Partial to M1 turrets myself...

 

[smith934]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

The M3 will hold, reliably, when set halfway between clicks. Have used it this way with a .300 WM in F Class. You can also paint them and mark with a sharpie to suit your load.

Me? I love M3 dials.

 

[smith934]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
2) M3 turrets are not about precision, they are about speed....Precision and M3 turrets, are not compatible. However, they are very fast to dial, and the "precision" is adequate for hunting use, IMHO. Further if you bought an M3, Leupold will change out your M3 elevation turret for a M2 for $89.00. Assuming were speaking of LR/T MK4 variables?

3) The BDC cams work well for only the loads they were made for. But Kenton and Leupold will make you a custom dial with your own data.
</div></div>

See my comments above. Briefly, setting between clicks gives you .5 MOA and you can paint and mark the dials yourself very easily.

 

[GMAC7949]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

do yourself a favor and check out the Vortex Viper, It has as clear of a optics as my MK4 dont get me wrong I like my Mk4 but my next scope will be the Vortex viper for the hunting rig.
my2cents

 

[IsleofGough]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

I much prefer the M1 turrets. The M3 are sort of gummy. But I also don't like BDCs. They are only somewhat accurate for one load and one set of conditions (not good for changing altitude).

 

[Turk]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

One can compensate for any change w/ the M3 just as well as the M1 for hunting applications. Let's not forget what the M3 was designed for!

 

[strick9]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

Guys Thanks for all the info..Worked up some numbers with Charlie at Luepys custom shop, He recommended the VXIII well over the MK4 ! , said there was no comparrison in the glass now with the new coatings on the VXIII line it slams MK4 glass. He recommended doing the CDS turrett, a new design with BDC and 1/4 moa clicks with the same profile as the M2 anyone familiar with it?

With 300wsm 180 grn accubond one turn CDS should throw out to 800 yds add tmr and may touch a thousand with hold over which for hunting reasons is well beyond my desire to shoot anyhow. Only offered in one inch tube which kinda bit me.. You send them the load you get a bdc dial for it or just 1/4 moa clicks turret. My price was very acceptable being under a grand with four turret caps.

 

[christian77]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The BDC cams work well for only the loads they were made for.</div></div>
The MK4 .308 BDC tracks MK262 pretty well.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STRICK9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having owned SnB, NF, Swaro and Kahles but never a Leupy I got some ques for you MK 4 pros.I need another dial up optik that won't break the bank has reasonable glass and weight for a lightweight rig and considering strongly a MK4( unless you have a truly viable option quality and weight wise). Use will be for hunting only and very infrequent shots from 500yd to 800yd most shots 100 to 500..
Now for hunting only I have a couple of questions?
Can a SnB/Swaro owner be happy with the Glass? Clear freak here for sure.
Do the M3 turrets allow you enough precision?
How do you like the BDC especially for 300 wm and 308?
Are the M1 knobs in the way as much as they appear to be?, ie do they snag on everything?
Which would you choose?
and just for chits WTF don't they make the M3 in 1/4 moa or .1 mill? I looked at the M2 but don't need the illum.

Again this would be for hunting only. I am skeptical about a 5-800yd shot where one click moves impact 5-8 inches per, but also despise that tall ass turret of the M1. Your opinion?

Kind Regards
</div></div>

I have the Mk4 3.5-10 with the M3 turrets, and those are nice when you have to dial up the elevation for the longer ranges, however the lack of fine adjustment can leave you frustrated when your zero isn't right where you'd like it to be, and it's too close for the 1moa adjustments to get it perfect. I personally have been thinking about sending the scope to Leup to have them fit it with M2 knobs, and have the BDC on the knob marked out to my load (208Amax @ 2500fps). I may do that over the winter after deer season and when it gets REALLY cold.

Branden

 

[ToddM]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

I love the M3 knobs for hunting large game, they are low profile but fast to adjust. That said I think the M2 knobs are a good option as well. The M3's get you +/- ~4" at 800 yards of your aim point, that's easily enough to put down anything for NA large game. Plus you can easily get from 0-800 yards fast on the knob.

That said, I'd like to see more of the M2 knobs show up on leupolds scopes, the only higher power option now is the 3.5-10 illuminated in the brown color that is WAY over priced, or to have an M3 converted. The 1/2 moa adjustments would be nice, and you could still get to 800+ yards on most calibers in a single turn.

There's a huge gap in the hunting scope options here. A full tactical scope at 2-3 lbs is too big/heavy for many hunting builds. There are very very few options for low profile fast adjustable knobs in scopes under 20oz.

S&B has their prefect hunter but it has little to no adjustment, only about 6 MOA up from zero, so even if you zero at 200-250 yards you are not getting past 500-600 with most calibers at best, plus you have no fast windage adjustment. They also have the single turn police marksman scopes but 34mm is huge on hunting rifle, and they have little tube length available for rings making it near impossible to use on a rifle without a 1pc rail, not to mention being heavy.

Leupold has the M3 but frankly I'm not sold on it's durability, and I don't think leupold is kicking out the quality they used to. The fact my viii M3 just came back from a illumination module update and clean/adjust with a broken parallax knob leaves little faith in leupold or their repair service. It's being sent back again Monday.

Swarovski has the ballistic turret but you only get 4 settings, again even with a 200 yards zero only gets you to 500 yards, and you have no windage reticule or fast knob adjustment. Kahles is a little better allowing for a 5 settings to 600 yards but again no fast windage and no reticule windage options. Also swarovski now has no front focal option for ballistic reticules, which to me a ballistic reticule that is not front focal plane is a joke. Most smart hunters are not going to leave their scope on the highest power which is the only power the ballistic reticule is accurate at.

NF, eh the 2.5-10x32 isn't bad, but it it requires multiple turns to get to longer distances. The 3-15x50 is too big/heavy for a hunting rig, these huge knobs need to go.

The leupold CDS system would be great if it was not 1/4 moa per click, so you get about 12 MOA adjustment max and no zero stop. it again limits yardage way too much. It's still a good first attempt though. I've also seen too many leupolds where the click values were not consistent through the adjustment range.

 

[Swamper]

Re: Mrk 4, M1 or M3 turret?for hunting only?

Leupold will convert any 2008 or 2009 "S" or "T" serial # scope with M1 turrets to M2.