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MT/trail bike questions

Sixfivesavage

Sixfivesavage

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 30, 2013
2,388
1,640
Maryland
I'm seriously thinking about buying myself a bike. Been threatening it now for a year or two. I found myself going to a bike shop the other day to have a tire on a hand me down bike fixed for one of my boys and took a look around while I was there. Went back today to pick the wheels up and looked some more and talked to the owner a bit. I've narrowed it down to two models I think but different companies. The biggest thing I'm wondering, from anyone who has experience with the two or rides regularly, am I wrong to think I'll be well served with the cheaper option and not be wasting money or would I be better off to buy the higher option and not have to worry about trading in later potentially? The two specific bikes in question are the TREK Marlin 7 being the cheaper option and the Salsa Timberjack SLX being the more expensive option. The Salsa is at the max I'd want to spend ideally. the Trek more in line with where I'd like to be unless it's money well spent to go a different route. I'm told the Salsa will handle better than the Trek but me being new, only riding a handful of times a week around my farm and not having plans to go on any trips, at least for the foreseeable future, I'm not sure I'd see the difference on the finer points. It'll see time on logging trails and deer trails in my woods, crop fields and pasture (some of which can be on the soggy side) around the rest of the farm as well as crossing streams and just general gravel driveway riding. The main thing is just spending time with my boys as they get bigger and loose the training wheels and such. I'll ride the rougher, more strenuous stuff on my own untill they're able. Maybe put a rifle rack on it for varmints and use this instead of walking fields. I think the Trek will suit me but I don't want to be penny wise and dollar foolish. I'm sure theres knowledge on the hide that can give me some advice on this.
 
Go with the Salsa over the Trek Marlin 7. It’ll be a more forgiving ride over the rough stuff and has better component spec.

I’ll throw in the suggestion for a Specialized Fuze comp if there’s a dealer near you.
 
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Based on your description of use-case, save the money and buy the Trek Marlin. In my opinion, if you're only riding it a few times a week and your rides are 1 hr or less, you won't notice a difference in the quality of the components. As long as the geometry of the frame and comfort felt good on a test ride, save your dollars.
 
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O-Town said:
Based on your description of use-case, save the money and buy the Trek Marlin. In my opinion, if you're only riding it a few times a week and your rides are 1 hr or less, you won't notice a difference in the quality of the components. As long as the geometry of the frame and comfort felt good on a test ride, save your dollars.
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For the foreseeable future I'll for sure be an hour or less each ride. Not gonna be doing multiple miles any time soon. That's why I'm kinda thinking I'll not notice a difference on the finer points, especially so since this is my first bike in probably 20 years and that one was a Diamondback from Dicks lol.

Bandit31 said:
Go with the Salsa over the Trek Marlin 7. It’ll be a more forgiving ride over the rough stuff and has better component spec.

I’ll throw in the suggestion for a Specialized Fuze comp if there’s a dealer near you.
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The guy at the shop said the same thing about being more forgiving and handling better on rougher ground. I'm just not sure I'll see a difference to justify the extra coin on the terrain I'll be riding on. I've never heard of half of this stuff anyway since I'm not realy a biker and just now looking into it all, I do know there's a bunch of shops around the area though just need to take a drive to get to them. This place is right across the street from work, so it's easy.
 
In this price range, you get what you pay for, and the Salsa is going to be a better bike all around. Better geometry, the frame can fit fat 29" tires or fatter 27.5" tires, better fork, better drivetrain, better wheelset. Is it worth the extra money? That depends upon how much you'll use it. I honestly put way more time on the saddle than I do behind the rifle, and so for me it'd be a no-brainer.
 
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Does your local bike shop have rentals? A good shop will let you use your rental fees towards a new purchase. That’s what I did when I bought my bike. Tried a few different bikes and settled on one I liked. Also pinkbike is a great place to score deals. Those guys are always selling their stuff for the latest and greatest. Starting off on a hardtail is a good call Imo. It forces you to pick better lines and in turn makes you a better rider.
 
I'll have to ask about rentals. I'm not sure on that. This world is so new to me that I dont even know what I don't know yet.
 
Not a bad deal. You’re definitely gonna want a dropped post. From your post it seems like you’re just riding around your property?
 
Sixfivesavage said:
Yea, that's pretty much it for the foreseeable future. What's a dropped post?
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It’s a seat post that goes up and down with a remote switch. What it does is allows you to have the correct seat height for pedaling and then you can drop it for the downhills. If your property is pretty flat and you’re not gonna do as much downhill stuff, I’d get the cheaper option. If you’re really going to get into it, learn on the hardtail then upgrade to a full suspension bike.
 
Just to be clear - it's called a dropper post. And it's about the second- or third-best innovation of the past 25 years (disc brakes being #1 by a wide margin).

My wife is by no means an aggressive rider, and has always struggled with confidence in performing even simple tasks like stopping and starting the bike on the trail. The dropper allows her to lower the seat when coming to a stop, which makes it easier to get on and off the bike. It sounds like a trivial thing to us experienced riders, but it isn't (and by the way, that "trivial thing" can become kinda important when trying to ride in deep snow where "postholing" becomes a concern).

It would not necessarily be what I consider to be mandatory equipment for casual riding, but make sure that frame has internal cable routing for this feature.

Buying a used bike is a great way to save money, and most of my bikes have come via that route. But it's also a roll of the dice just like buying a used firearm. You'll want to budget for some repairs and maintenance (assume that at least one part will be worn or broken), and also consider the manufacturer's warranty (many manufacturers will only honor the warranty for the original owner).

One of the best bargains I got was on a shop demo bike. Yeah, it'd seen a bit of use and had a couple of minor paint chips, but it was well-maintained and came with some fresh parts (tires, grips, etc.). I saved about $1500 and didn't feel nearly as bad when I began adding to the paint damage.
 
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E. Bryant said:
Just to be clear - it's called a dropper post. And it's about the second- or third-best innovation of the past 25 years (disc brakes being #1 by a wide margin).

My wife is by no means an aggressive rider, and has always struggled with confidence in performing even simple tasks like stopping and starting the bike on the trail. The dropper allows her to lower the seat when coming to a stop, which makes it easier to get on and off the bike. It sounds like a trivial thing to us experienced riders, but it isn't (and by the way, that "trivial thing" can become kinda important when trying to ride in deep snow where "postholing" becomes a concern).

It would not necessarily be what I consider to be mandatory equipment for casual riding, but make sure that frame has internal cable routing for this feature.

Buying a used bike is a great way to save money, and most of my bikes have come via that route. But it's also a roll of the dice just like buying a used firearm. You'll want to budget for some repairs and maintenance (assume that at least one part will be worn or broken), and also consider the manufacturer's warranty (many manufacturers will only honor the warranty for the original owner).

One of the best bargains I got was on a shop demo bike. Yeah, it'd seen a bit of use and had a couple of minor paint chips, but it was well-maintained and came with some fresh parts (tires, grips, etc.). I saved about $1500 and didn't feel nearly as bad when I began adding to the paint damage.
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What's your thoughts on the specialized fuze comp for sale I posted the link to above here? Would I be right thinking that's a happy medium between the marlin 7 and the salsa I'm asking about? Seems like a reasonable option for what I'm looking for but then again, I don't know what half this stuff is.
 
You don’t need a dropper post for casual riding. In fact I wouldn’t even consider one for what your doing. They are one of the number one thing that breaks on higher end mountain bikes. And are really only needed for technical single track or longer descents. It might be nice if your not very graceful on a bike.

My 2 cents as an avid mountain biker. Get the highest spec hard tail 29 or 27.5 bike, with relaxed geometry (not a race bike) and run it. Higher end components generally are more durable, better built especially when considering suspension (fork).

A hard tail, trail bike will keep you happy for years to come. Great bike for riding anything from road/wide gravel trails all the way to technical single track. It’s a bike that will always have a place in my personal stable.
 
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Lawnboi said:
You don’t need a dropper post for casual riding. In fact I wouldn’t even consider one for what your doing. They are one of the number one thing that breaks on higher end mountain bikes. And are really only needed for technical single track or longer descents. It might be nice if your not very graceful on a bike.

My 2 cents as an avid mountain biker. Get the highest spec hard tail 29 or 27.5 bike, with relaxed geometry (not a race bike) and run it. Higher end components generally are more durable, better built especially when considering suspension (fork).

A hard tail, trail bike will keep you happy for years to come. Great bike for riding anything from road/wide gravel trails all the way to technical single track. It’s a bike that will always have a place in my personal stable.
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Any of the three I've listed here a good consideration?
 
Sixfivesavage said:
Any of the three I've listed here a good consideration?
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I’m not super familiar with all those bikes, as they change yearly. But from a quick glance the salsa has decent geometry, and a decent component spec. Shimano SLX is a good drivetrain. The fork is air spring. Most budget builds will sacrifice the fork first. I wouldn’t buy a bike without an air spring fork minimum. The coil forks generally are junk, heavy and don’t last long especially under full grown male riders.

I think that salsa would keep you happy even if your riding grows.

I’d avoid the marlin 7 because of the 2x drivetrain, just more hassle, and the coil fork.

Id caution you buying a used bike that’s been heavily upgraded if you don’t know what your looking for or at.
 
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That specialized looks like a good pick. I'm not totally sure on price. Fox rhythm fork was a good one. The DT350 hubs have been really good for me. I have punished the hell out of them and they keep going.

As for the 27.5" tires vs 29" there is going to be the never ending debate. I run both. Depends on the situation for me. I've got a new 29" Enduro bike on the way, my last 29" bike I hated it was slow, in responsive, for my kind of riding. For cross country riding on nice groomed trails or big jump groomed bike parks it was fun. In the rough rocky trails it was terrible. For you the 29" might be the way to go. With that fork on 27.5" I bet your could fit most 2.6" front tires which would be a bit nicer for exploration type riding which you should be able to go 2.5" rear. I don't have any experience with that drivetrain, I'd have to do some looking there.

For the Dropper seat post. Significantly recommend that also.
 
Sixfivesavage said:
What's your thoughts on the specialized fuze comp for sale I posted the link to above here? Would I be right thinking that's a happy medium between the marlin 7 and the salsa I'm asking about? Seems like a reasonable option for what I'm looking for but then again, I don't know what half this stuff is.
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Honestly, I would pass on a 4-year-old bike that is posted with only a couple of shitty pictures. That post gives me the "ridden hard and put away wet" vibes. I might feel differently if I could see the bike in person.
 
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So the salsa is looking like the better option as of right now it seems from the general consensus here. Right?
 
I started riding 9 years ago and have downgraded twice. As a newbie I worried about being too cheap so I got what I paid for... Starting with a full carbon Trek Superfly race bike. Didn't take long to figure out it was too much bike for me. Traded the Superfly for a Trek Fuel EX7 dual suspension, which was awesome but still more than I needed.

Now I run a fatty and am having more fun at a third of the cost. It goes up rocky sandy climbs much easier and is awesome in snow. Yes, it is less efficient, but I am not racing, I am riding for fun.

I ride in flat bottom tennies, no more clip-in bullshit and $150 shoes. You can buy frills like dropper posts, etc. anytime once you know your unique style.
 
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Also, think about the tranny. My Superfly had 30 friggin gears. A lot of fat bikes are 1x11 so no front derailleur to worry about = less operator error = more fun.
 
Redonthehead said:
Also, think about the tranny. My Superfly had 30 friggin gears. A lot of fat bikes are 1x11 so no front derailleur to worry about = less operator error = more fun.
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This is a good point, almost everything in mountain biking is going to a 1x drivetrain. Much simpler, no front derailleur to deal with, and less weight on the bike.
 
Much respect to the enduro rider. I saved $1000 once I figured out where the extra weight was on my bike. Yeah I could go tubeless rims, carbon seat post, skinny tires, etc., all while carrying an extra 20 lbs (well earned) around my midsection.

The bike needs to match how you ride. The rest is style points.
 
Ebryant has a good point on the specialized, looking at it on a bigger screen, there is a good chance it's ragged out. Sometimes upgrades can be from getting hammered on or people like me that can't leave stuff alone.

The Salsa looks like it would be a good choice, decent amount of slack on the head tube and short chain stays will make for a fun ride and the slack will ride through the rougher conditions and decent with confidence. My daughters bike has an SLX drive train, it shifts quickly, only issue is shifting into first needs a harder shifter push them the rest. This shouldn't be an issue for an adult, (she is 12). Brakes are the same on hers also with the exception of I put 160mm front rotor on it. The 180 on the Salsa would be the better choice being an adult and needing the additional stopping power.
 
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Jeez fellas, with all the talk of geometry, droppers and drivetrains we forgot to mention, first and foremost, buy the proper frame size for your body! I'm 6'3" and ride 21" frame. There are charts online to ballpark the best frame size for you.
 
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OP, where do you live / what kind of terrain do you think you will mostly be riding? What is the top of your budget for this purchase and does that include the accessories like a helmet, shoes, tools such as flat repair kits?

I agree with pretty much everything said here in this thread. Keep in mind that complete bikes are usually spaced out with not so great components, that is why I build every bike I have ever owned. When purchasing a new bike I would look for a complete bike to have at least 2 of the 3 most expensive items that you would not need to upgrade: frame, wheels, fork (with the frame being a quality manufacturer that has good customer service / warranty, it needs to be upgradable meaning it uses the latest standards such as boost hub spacing and at least a tapered or 44mm steer tube). Keep in mind for your use a good quality modern metal frame (aluminium or steel) will be much less expensive than a carbon frame and will ride very nice!

I have been at this bike buying, building, selling, riding, & racing game a very long time (since about ‘91) so I may have a few recommendations that could help. At any point in time since 2000 I have had more money in the bikes I’m riding than the cars I’m driving, some people say I have a “problem“. Not sure what that means... Point is I’m happy to help, reach out anytime - Jesse
 
jbell said:
OP, where do you live / what kind of terrain do you think you will mostly be riding? What is the top of your budget for this purchase and does that include the accessories like a helmet, shoes, tools such as flat repair kits?

I agree with pretty much everything said here in this thread. Keep in mind that complete bikes are usually spaced out with not so great components, that is why I build every bike I have ever owned. When purchasing a new bike I would look for a complete bike to have at least 2 of the 3 most expensive items that you would not need to upgrade: frame, wheels, fork (with the frame being a quality manufacturer that has good customer service / warranty, it needs to be upgradable meaning it uses the latest standards such as boost hub spacing and at least a tapered or 44mm steer tube). Keep in mind for your use a good quality modern metal frame (aluminium or steel) will be much less expensive than a carbon frame and will ride very nice!

I have been at this bike buying, building, selling, riding, & racing game a very long time (since about ‘91) so I may have a few recommendations that could help. At any point in time since 2000 I have had more money in the bikes I’m riding than the cars I’m driving, some people say I have a “problem“. Not sure what that means... Point is I’m happy to help, reach out anytime - Jesse
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Terrain, frequency and budget are all in the first post. To reiterate in a nut shell, AG ground, pasture, some of which that can be on the soggy side, logging trails and gravel driveway. All on my own farm basically, not gonna be going out on public trails and that kinda stuff at all, maybe some day but not any time soon. The salsa is the top of my budget at about $1500. I'm gonna be using hiking boots most likely, not buying all the associated biking clothing. Maybe a helmet but even that, untill I'm doing more than riding with my little boys I'll probably forgo for now too. I'm not building a bike, that's way more than what I'm trying to get into here. Basically I want a solid weekend ride that will hold up and can get me into the woods and trails when I have time. Better than going to dicks or something for a bike but not the AI PSR of bikes. More like the AT or AX. I'm in Maryland, so nothing harsh for terrain really. Something that has main components worth potentially building off of down the road if stuff breaks or I wear out is my goal.
 
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jbell said:
Gotcha

That Timberjack will be a great bike for your needs.
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That's looking like the general consensus. So the "bones" of the bike are quality enough to be building off of as things break or wear or I decide I want to change something? The shop carries a lot of models but I think mainly the Trek and salsa brands, so if theres something else worth considering in those prices from those brands, I'll see if they have them. I'm hoping to try and get in there this week and see if I can ride one a bit.
 
Were you looking at the plus tire size bike also?

Highly recommend helmet. Sometimes it can just be that one rock, tree root, black hole.

Both my kids ride in Merrell hiking shoes as in my terrain they hike a bike a bunch, which I would pick pedals that fit your feet.

You gotta get the lycra bibs too.... Lol
 
I'll get a helmet before I do anything substantial. My logging trails are pretty well groomed. Wide and soft, more slick from leaves and soft dirt than any roots and rocks.

I'm assuming a wider pedal would be smart. I'm not sure what exactly is considered plus width on the tires but the salsa was substantially wider than the marlin was. I'll take a closer look and maybe some pics of the exact bike in question this week when I stop in.
 
Plus tires are going to be the 2.6-3.0" tire width. Which will give you some more float and traction through the pastures, softer trails, and can be a bit more forgiving in the rocks and roots. If I was going to get a bike for what you described I would get a plus tire myself.

You just want pedals that cover your feet, I'm a size 13 shoe and my flat pedals of choice are the Crankbros stamp 7 large which is way overkill for what you need, the composite pedals from Crank bros, e13, one up will all have a good size platform, be able to shed mud and have adjustable pins to suit your foot wear.
 
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I think the 27.5 + version would be better for you. Set it up tubeless and run as low os a pressure as you can, it will be more comfortable than a 29er. In theory it will do a little better in the soft soggy stuff too.
 
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I'm a huge fan of 27.5+ setups (we get a lot of dry sand in Michigan during the summer months), but that Salsa can fit 29x2.6" tires which will also float over soft terrain with ease. Just stay away from the skinny 29x2.25" semi-slicks that the go-fast racers like to run, unless you're going to run only on hardpacked surfaces. Talk to the local bike shop and see what they recommend for your local terrain.
 
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Sixfivesavage said:
I'm seriously thinking about buying myself a bike. Been threatening it now for a year or two. I found myself going to a bike shop the other day to have a tire on a hand me down bike fixed for one of my boys and took a look around while I was there. Went back today to pick the wheels up and looked some more and talked to the owner a bit. I've narrowed it down to two models I think but different companies. The biggest thing I'm wondering, from anyone who has experience with the two or rides regularly, am I wrong to think I'll be well served with the cheaper option and not be wasting money or would I be better off to buy the higher option and not have to worry about trading in later potentially? The two specific bikes in question are the TREK Marlin 7 being the cheaper option and the Salsa Timberjack SLX being the more expensive option. The Salsa is at the max I'd want to spend ideally. the Trek more in line with where I'd like to be unless it's money well spent to go a different route. I'm told the Salsa will handle better than the Trek but me being new, only riding a handful of times a week around my farm and not having plans to go on any trips, at least for the foreseeable future, I'm not sure I'd see the difference on the finer points. It'll see time on logging trails and deer trails in my woods, crop fields and pasture (some of which can be on the soggy side) around the rest of the farm as well as crossing streams and just general gravel driveway riding. The main thing is just spending time with my boys as they get bigger and loose the training wheels and such. I'll ride the rougher, more strenuous stuff on my own untill they're able. Maybe put a rifle rack on it for varmints and use this instead of walking fields. I think the Trek will suit me but I don't want to be penny wise and dollar foolish. I'm sure theres knowledge on the hide that can give me some advice on this.
Click to expand...
Scratch the rifle rack idea. Sling an ar across your back
 
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Wide 27.5 are about the same diameter as 29x2.3-2.4. I've had 27.5+ setups, and have run 29x2.6 on the front of some bikes. The 29+ felt real slow and unresponsive. Almost cumbersome. Where the 27.5+ was still responsive. If you were to go 29+ I would keep to the 2.4-2.6 size range. Like EBryant said no reason to run fast XC tires, and see what the locals recommends. I'm a bigger guy and we have lots of sharp edge rock here that is very hard on tires and usually always use Maxxis EXO+ casings to be a bit tougher. I have probably 6 different tire combinations right now for different places and conditions.
 
Sixfivesavage said:
What's the pros and cons between the wide 27.5s and the wide 29s?
Click to expand...

Practically speaking, there isn't a whole lotta difference. The 29s tend to roll with less resistance; the 27.5s tend to be a bit more "playful" and have a bit less inertia. These differences tend to be overstated by experienced riders; those without a lot of experience with high-end bikes would probably find both to be worlds' better than with whatever they've had past experience.

I think the rider height needs to be considered. I'm 5'6", so cramming fat 29s onto a bike with a reasonably short wheelbase might not provide the best experience on slow, tight singletrack. If someone is taller and riding on a long-wheelbase bike because they're regularly descending at high speeds on flow trails, then they may be happier on a the big "wagon wheels" (29s).

Within the context of the industry at this moment, 27.5+ has stagnated and the trend has shifted towards 29x2.6ish tires. Wait around a few more years and maybe we'll be moving back to 26x2.0s in some sort of misguided retro movement (just kidding, but the industry does tend to go through some fashion phases).

The WTB Trail Boss tires on the 29" Timberjack look like an excellent starting point for all-purpose use, which is probably why Salsa spec'd that rubber. You might want something smoother if used exclusively on hardpack or gravel, and you might need something more aggressive if you're constantly dealing with a lot of sticky mud, but unless the local bike shop had some better ideas, see how those stock tires work because they probably won't suck.
 
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The fatter the better on 27.5" rims, based on how you'll be riding. You can air down to a few lbs for snow and soft ground, then air up for more efficient pedaling on firm trails. My fat bike runs 4" wide tires with more air in the summer and 5" on front in winter. If the rims are "tubeless ready" you can go tubeless any time, but I recommend you set the bike up for no fuss durability to start out, then go for lighter and faster components if warranted later. Also, hydraulics are more fuss and $. Mechanical disc brakes are fine for you.
 
The info you're getting is sound.

I'll throw this out since you mentioned it in your OP.

Learn how to repair a flat tire. This includes removing and installing front and rear wheels.

It's a 3-5 minute job on the trail side. Or it could be a couple of hours walk back. Easy choice.

Keep the tools, Co2 and spare tube in your EPMS. (That's the bag that hangs under your seat)
Keep your chain clean and well lubed.
Don't get lube on your brake pads.
 
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Flat repair is "basic dude stuff" as Pat McNamera would put it.

If you run tubeless, then the sealant will fix 98% of your leaks before you even realize there is a problem. The other 2% of the time, you'll need to have a tube and maybe something to patch the gapping hole in the sidewall (a bit of Gorilla tape wrapped around the seat post fixes this problem, as does a chunk of plastic water bottle).

Any time I'm further away from the car than I would want to walk, I'm carrying a tube, patch kit, CO2 inflator, several cartridges, a mini-pump, a multi-tool, spare chain quick-link, and some zip ties.
 
Got the Dynaplug setup, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Prior to that, I was using the traditional "bacon strips" and had a few slices where they just wouldn't hold.
 
I'm gonna have to look into that I've still got the oneup kit with bacon strips. Around here it's either punctures that Orange seal deals with or slices that you usually end up patching or a new tire. At least with Cushcore inserts I can limp it back to the truck. Rear tires only last me 3-4 months at the most, fronts about 6 months.
 
Definitely pay for the nicer components out the door. Those are upgrades you don’t want to have to make later. I’d say go with the Salsa. Although nothing wrong with Trek.
 
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