Hi guys, I am still assembling my first long range rifle. Last bit is a muzzle brake. I was thinking of going with a 419 Hellfire Match since it seems like one that is been talked about enough in everyone else's discussions about this. I do have another option and wondered if anyone had experience. My old man has a Bergara in 6.5CM that has a VG6 gamma on it. He is going to be switching over to a suppressor (as soon as it is out of jail). However, I don't know if I want to wait for that and try it or maybe others will stray me away. This rifle will not be a "competition" gun, but my goal is to ring some steel at 1,000yds and use it for deer or elk (if I get a tag).
- Thread starter pizzadave80
- Start date
Anything will work really for target shooting. One the most effective brakes out there is the apa bastard line. Lil bastard with the top ports is great. Big bastard only a lil better. They're LOUD though. Heathens are good, I'm sure a419 match is as well. I know the original 3 port hellfire was so so.
Use the Hellfire Match and get the adapter for your suppressor from Area 419 and then you can use the brake and the supressor interchangably.
I own the VG6 . It's a quality piece. I'm planning on buying the Cadex Defense MX1. Really like that as well. Excellent blast mitigation away from the shooter on a 22"
Do you have experience with the VG6 PRS 30?
My recommendation is an ACE brake. I own just about every brake out there and some I own 3 or 4 of. From a pure recoil reduction and muzzle stabilization, the APA Fat Bastard Gen 3 is the king from 6.5CM up to 300NM. But it will beat you up with muzzle blast. I use one on 6.5CM and up PRS and target guns so its not that bad, but the ACE really helps with directing the blast more forward while still having great recoil reduction. The A419 Helfire Match and Sidewinders are also effective, but not as good as the APA. For 6mm and smaller stuff, anything will work. The ACE really is hard to beat for all around shooting. I shot a season of PRS with on on a 6GT and its much easier on shooter and squad than the APA and A419 stuff.
Also, get the 30 cal versions. There is a measurable difference in recoil reduction (1-2%) but from a shooter perspective, its imperceivable. Might as well have a more flexible brake so you can run on anything up to 30cal.
Also, get the 30 cal versions. There is a measurable difference in recoil reduction (1-2%) but from a shooter perspective, its imperceivable. Might as well have a more flexible brake so you can run on anything up to 30cal.
Cadex has the MX1 mini for 6.5 CM, and hard to beat for performance and price.
+1
My experience with a Lil Bastard was that it was loud and blasty and I didn't like it at all. Sold it after 2 range trips and went bare muzzle until I put on a different one. Good recoil reduction but the blast/noise wasn't worth it to me.
and yes, suppressors are a better experience IMO as well
I'm new here but I'll still recommend what I'm considering for my rifle.
I'm looking at Eric Cortina's tuner brakes.
Which should save me/you time on tuning factory ammo or hand loads I don't know much about his model that is for suppressed rifles but he has one that goes behind the suppressor allowing for tuning with or without the can on.
You should be able to find them at Cortina Precision .
I'm looking at Eric Cortina's tuner brakes.
Which should save me/you time on tuning factory ammo or hand loads I don't know much about his model that is for suppressed rifles but he has one that goes behind the suppressor allowing for tuning with or without the can on.
You should be able to find them at Cortina Precision .
I have used very few muzzle brakes but of the few i have tried the Hellfire 3 port has probably been the best, the surefire has been pretty decent as well.
Niether are on a caliber of rifle that needs a brake at all but the Hellfire is on my 6.5x47 in a carbon chassis and is no were near the wieght of the majority of the PRS and target rifles around here.
With that said the crosshairs barely move on the target at the shot.
Maybe someday i will try a brake on a rifle that actually has a little bite to it like my 300wm.
Niether are on a caliber of rifle that needs a brake at all but the Hellfire is on my 6.5x47 in a carbon chassis and is no were near the wieght of the majority of the PRS and target rifles around here.
With that said the crosshairs barely move on the target at the shot.
Maybe someday i will try a brake on a rifle that actually has a little bite to it like my 300wm.
Tuners are highly overated. Most people don't even know how to set them up.
With handloadloads they serve no real purpose.
Marketing works on the ignorant.
Muzzle brakes are pretty much a tradeoff between decibels and recoil reduction. Then you have to look at overall design and decide how and where you'll be using them.
Notes:
- I shoot primarily prone and on dirt. As such, I don't like radial brakes because they kick up a lot of dust.
- Then you have "tunable" brakes like the APA Lil Bastard where you can open up ports on the top to assist with vertical rise. I have one on my 6mm, but, frankly, it's overkill for the cartridge and adds a lot of noise. The tuning ports add very little for that caliber.
- I have a Hellfire on my 300 PRC - no ports, but it is easier to take on and off and get set properly - and I remove it after every trip to clean in an ultrasonic.
- I have decided to never again buy a non-stainless brake because of the fact that I clean every time. Finishes get funky over time and I don't want to worry about it.
- The 6.5 is a pretty benign round. You definitely don't need something as potent (and loud) as a Hellfire or Lil Bastard.
The below article is a little dated (2015), but has a comparison of recoil forces to sound volume. It's a good read to understand the tradeoffs.
precisionrifleblog.com
Notes:
- I shoot primarily prone and on dirt. As such, I don't like radial brakes because they kick up a lot of dust.
- Then you have "tunable" brakes like the APA Lil Bastard where you can open up ports on the top to assist with vertical rise. I have one on my 6mm, but, frankly, it's overkill for the cartridge and adds a lot of noise. The tuning ports add very little for that caliber.
- I have a Hellfire on my 300 PRC - no ports, but it is easier to take on and off and get set properly - and I remove it after every trip to clean in an ultrasonic.
- I have decided to never again buy a non-stainless brake because of the fact that I clean every time. Finishes get funky over time and I don't want to worry about it.
- The 6.5 is a pretty benign round. You definitely don't need something as potent (and loud) as a Hellfire or Lil Bastard.
The below article is a little dated (2015), but has a comparison of recoil forces to sound volume. It's a good read to understand the tradeoffs.
Muzzle Brake: Summary of Field Test Results
This post summarizes the eye-opening results for the massive muzzle brake field test I’ve worked on ...
precisionrifleblog.com Tell us you don't shoot comps without telling us you don't shoot comps. A 30-60% recoil reduction and less muzzle rise....who doesn't want that? People who shoot a box a year at dirt piles. Not all opinions are equal.
You are posting a 7 year old test that's completely obsolete. There is much newer and more comprehensive testing posted on this site, but copy pasting cals garbage is easy mode for the ignorant.
You are posting a 7 year old test that's completely obsolete. There is much newer and more comprehensive testing posted on this site, but copy pasting cals garbage is easy mode for the ignorant.
God, I love people who lack reading comprehension - your post fits the bill nicely.
Points:
- The guy is talking about his first rifle, and specifically says, "This rifle will not be a "competition" gun, but my goal is to ring some steel at 1,000yds and use it for deer or elk (if I get a tag)" - so, volume is going to be an issue and recoil less so.
- I specifically say, "The below article is a little dated (2015), but has a comparison of recoil forces to sound volume. It's a good read to understand the tradeoffs." So, yes, I know it's 7+ years old (I said that), that doesn't make it something not worth reading to gain understanding.
- "Easy mode for ignorant." - Lol, you get triggered quite easily. There is some good medication for that.
Seriously, dude, the chest thumping is a little over the top - grow a filter, learn to read, and you'll go a lot further in life.
And another for the ignore list. Good luck in life, you clearly will need it.
I'm a pretty big fan of the ace brakes. I have 3, decent recoil reduction(slightly less than apa gen3 bastards), but very low muzzle rise and you can tune the position of the top ports to control how it tracks back to get it straight. With 100% 90° ports, the muzzle blast is much lower than angle port brakes.
Nice .. my first comment on the hide and I basically get called ignorant... maybe so. But you even noted people don't know how to set them up.. that to me says that the problem is not with the tuner.
And Eric's team just won the gold metal in South Africa at the world competition for F class at 1000yards.
That's OK there are plenty of things people have called over rated before they figured out they weren't.
And as far as marketing on the EC tuner.. what marketing. Eric hid the tuner for as long as he could so he had a advantage over the competition.
we get it. you're a cortina nut hugger.
not really relevant to the OP's question
not really relevant to the OP's question
Appreciate the warm welcome to the hide.
And it can be relevant to the OPs question.
He sells tuner brakes.
The question was about brakes.. so.
And it can be relevant to the OPs question.
He sells tuner brakes.
The question was about brakes.. so.
The fact you do not understand that F Class can not use muzzle breaks and this is a muzzle break thread is some special level of irony.
Eric was not the first to make a tuner they have been around 50 years. He is just better than everyone else at getting fools to buy his shit becuase social media pimping.
Yea what marketing? Like 50 podcasts dedicated to talking about it and paid placements in reviews.......
Again. This is ignorance.
Go shoot a PRS match...most of the people running Cortina shit place at bottom. They think a tuner will help them when they can't even make accurate ammo or get stable on a barricade....lol
Virtually all the top shooters with a few exceptions do not run a tuner. Funny how that works.
Tuners do work, they still require sound load development/reloading practices. They can make an accurate load more accurate by a small percentage. However micro accuracy in our disciplines isn't going to make you hit more targets. If shooter missed by an inch at 600y and was holding just inside of edge, it wasn't accuracy that was culprit, it was a shit wind call. If you're a good shooter and have good wind call, you can win matches with rifles that shot 3/4moa. I've never won a match and most my rifles shoot in the 3s for 10 shots at 100y, and under half moa at 500y on paper. I don't take 1st because I need to suck less. I've got some 2nds 3rd, lots of top 5s, but I still suck, so suck less!
Don’t get your blood pressure up….this is SOP for this jerk off.
I had good luck with this brake
I would never suggest to anyone to skip the reloading process by using a tuner.
And a newbie has no real business trying to use a tuner, IMO. Get a good understanding of all the basics, the fundamentals and internal and external ballistics before even trying adding another variable such as a tuner.
I agree with @DeathBeforeDismount, tuners are incredibly overrated. If you want to maximize precision, get a top quality cut rifled barrel, a chamber optimized to your projectile cut by a top tier gunsmith, and use top quality reloading equipment and components.
The 419 Hellfire , Sidewinder and Hellfire match are nice. I have one on my 6GT and one on a 6.5CM barrel.
ROing this weekend i stood to the side of every break in the squad to see how bad the side blast was. We had Fat bastard g2 and G3, Little bastard, Cortina, 419 Helfire Match, 419 sidewinder, TB can, and a few other shitty ones. By far the worst blast and report was the 419 Helfire Match. Even worse than the G3 Fat bastard with ports open.
ROing this weekend i stood to the side of every break in the squad to see how bad the side blast was. We had Fat bastard g2 and G3, Little bastard, Cortina, 419 Helfire Match, 419 sidewinder, TB can, and a few other shitty ones. By far the worst blast and report was the 419 Helfire Match. Even worse than the G3 Fat bastard with ports open.
Gee, kinda makes me wonder why Frank found a tuner to be valuable on his Valkyrie?
But on the other hand, you did get a like from one of the most consistent assholes on this board. Lol
I'm paraphrasing, but Frank said that adding the weight at the end of the barrel helped. He did not adjust the tuner to find any sort of optimal tune. A suppressor would essentially do the same thing (and he may have said as much).
I don't want to speak for Frank, but he's written an article on his experience with tuners and his experience with trying to use a tuner to "tune" a load. Sounded like the result was just confusion more than anything else.
I have two tuners myself, and have done my own testing. While my testing is not dispositive in any way, I don't think tuners are the magic bullet many make them out to be. And I certainly wouldn't recommend one to a new(ish) shooter. Or even most experienced ones.
He was also shooting factory ammo out of a gun/caliber that is known to have issues shooting, which is why the Valk is all but dead. So maybe the tuner could help when you start with shit and end up with mediocre.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good purse swinging.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good purse swinging.
My 2 cents. Tuners on good shit won't matter for prs accuracy. Most people I shoot with test loads from a bipod and rear bag. Most have no trouble getting a premium cut rifled barrel with a concentric chamber and good reamer design to shoot just about everything with a berger bullet, lapua brass, and extruded powder to at or under 3/8 moa at 100 yards. How many can shoot so well they can tell if it was the tune or their shooting that is the difference between 3/8" and 1/8" at 100 yards off a bipod and rear bag?
I recently cheaped out and put some savage take-off barrels on our tl3s for an nrl hunter match. It was easy to get it to shoot by turning my apa little bastard out a turn at a time. Installed as normal 3/4" groups (multiple). One turn out 1.25" groups. 2 turns out sub 1/2" groups (multiple). Chronoed and had an es of 52...not good (progressive press with dropped charges)...shot a fist size group at 900 and said fuck it, let's go.
Not a tuner, but same concept. They work in a pinch. Good components are easy to make work but more $$$ than I wanted to spend to try out nrl hunter.
As far a brakes...I already answered in another thread. Apa or call Curtis Custom Weapons in Missouri and get whatever he is running with the massive top ports. Both are awesome. I get a headache every match from the apa. Not enough experience yet with the one from ccw, but the side ports are less angled and the top ports are big. I have also used 419 and jetblast. Jetblast is damn good for the small amount of blast at the shooter. 419, to me, is a lot of blast and not as good as apa or ccw when watching trace, impacts, and misses. 419 is the easiest to remove and install for cleaning.
I recently cheaped out and put some savage take-off barrels on our tl3s for an nrl hunter match. It was easy to get it to shoot by turning my apa little bastard out a turn at a time. Installed as normal 3/4" groups (multiple). One turn out 1.25" groups. 2 turns out sub 1/2" groups (multiple). Chronoed and had an es of 52...not good (progressive press with dropped charges)...shot a fist size group at 900 and said fuck it, let's go.
Not a tuner, but same concept. They work in a pinch. Good components are easy to make work but more $$$ than I wanted to spend to try out nrl hunter.
As far a brakes...I already answered in another thread. Apa or call Curtis Custom Weapons in Missouri and get whatever he is running with the massive top ports. Both are awesome. I get a headache every match from the apa. Not enough experience yet with the one from ccw, but the side ports are less angled and the top ports are big. I have also used 419 and jetblast. Jetblast is damn good for the small amount of blast at the shooter. 419, to me, is a lot of blast and not as good as apa or ccw when watching trace, impacts, and misses. 419 is the easiest to remove and install for cleaning.
A brake is the last thing I would want on a hunting gun. I fully understand the appeal as I pretty much only shoot PRS anymore, but prone shooting at distance or hunting where there's a chance I won't have ear pro on, I'll take a can all day over a brake. Helps you see more anyway.
Even for PRS, I run the Maverick from Area 419 and don't think I'll ever go back purely from the concussion blast standpoint. I find I shoot better with the increased recoil and greatly reduced concussion because I can see everything the entire shot. I don't have to recover from a shockwave and get back on target.
Even for PRS, I run the Maverick from Area 419 and don't think I'll ever go back purely from the concussion blast standpoint. I find I shoot better with the increased recoil and greatly reduced concussion because I can see everything the entire shot. I don't have to recover from a shockwave and get back on target.
Holeesheet... sorry I opened my pie hole.
My apologies to the Guy who started the thread.
My apologies to the Guy who started the thread.
