My first vintage rifle

[pickpick]

My father in law brought this rifle to my family today. It was acquired by my wifes' grandfather as payment for doing AC work for a lady years ago. My father in law got it when grandpa passed away in 1974. It was last shot in 1976 on a hunting trip. I've been trying to find out some history on it by surfing the web. Any shared info about what you know about these would be awesome. I'm pretty excited about this old rifle. Here it is with iphone pics.

 

[303_enfield]

Re: My first vintage rifle

NICE!

 

[JoeSmith]

Re: My first vintage rifle

Well, well, well; always interesting to see what comes out of the woodwork. Very nice. Ask Doc762 or CraigWyoming or MontanaMarine for info.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: My first vintage rifle

That serial number puts it in the "low number" catagory (made before Rock Island's 285K where they did the double heat treatment.

Meaning the reciever is hard and brittle and not safe to shoot.

In fact the CMP prohibits low number Springfields (<800K) and low number Rock Island (<285K).

Many were fired and didn't blow up, many did, you just never know which round will cause the reciever to let go.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
WARNING ON “LOW-NUMBER” SPRINGFIELDS

M1903 rifles made before February 1918 utilized receivers and bolts which were single heat-treated by a method that rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury. It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.

To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000 and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507. All Springfields made after this change are commonly called “high number” rifles. Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called “low-number” rifles.

In view of the safety risk the Ordnance Department withdrew from active service all “low-number” Springfields. During WWII, however, the urgent need for rifles resulted in the rebuilding and reissuing of many “low-number” as well as “high-number” Springfields. The bolts from such rifles were often mixed during rebuilding, and did not necessarily remain with the original receiver.

Generally speaking, “low number” bolts can be distinguished from “high-number” bolts by the angle at which the bolt handle is bent down. All “low number” bolts have the bolt handle bent straight down, perpendicular to the axis of the bolt body. High number bolts have “swept-back” (or slightly rearward curved) bolt handles.

A few straight-bent bolts are of the double heat-treat type, but these are not easily identified, and until positively proved otherwise ANY straight-bent bolt should be assumed to be “low number”. All original swept-back bolts are definitely “high number”. In addition, any bolt marked “N.S.” (for nickel steel) can be safely regarded as “high number” if obtained directly from CMP (beware of re-marked fakes).

CMP DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE WITH A ”LOW NUMBER” RECEIVER. Such rifles should be regarded as collector’s items, not “shooters”.</div></div>

 

[Rainier42]

Re: My first vintage rifle

Also, check out the CMP forums, lots of info over there on the 1903s, A3s, Garands, and Carbines.

 

[pickpick]

Re: My first vintage rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That serial number puts it in the "low number" catagory (made before Rock Island's 285K where they did the double heat treatment.

Meaning the reciever is hard and brittle and not safe to shoot.

In fact the CMP prohibits low number Springfields (<800K) and low number Rock Island (<285K).

Many were fired and didn't blow up, many did, you just never know which round will cause the reciever to let go.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
WARNING ON “LOW-NUMBER” SPRINGFIELDS

M1903 rifles made before February 1918 utilized receivers and bolts which were single heat-treated by a method that rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury. It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.

To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000 and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507. All Springfields made after this change are commonly called “high number” rifles. Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called “low-number” rifles.

In view of the safety risk the Ordnance Department withdrew from active service all “low-number” Springfields. During WWII, however, the urgent need for rifles resulted in the rebuilding and reissuing of many “low-number” as well as “high-number” Springfields. The bolts from such rifles were often mixed during rebuilding, and did not necessarily remain with the original receiver.

Generally speaking, “low number” bolts can be distinguished from “high-number” bolts by the angle at which the bolt handle is bent down. All “low number” bolts have the bolt handle bent straight down, perpendicular to the axis of the bolt body. High number bolts have “swept-back” (or slightly rearward curved) bolt handles.

A few straight-bent bolts are of the double heat-treat type, but these are not easily identified, and until positively proved otherwise ANY straight-bent bolt should be assumed to be “low number”. All original swept-back bolts are definitely “high number”. In addition, any bolt marked “N.S.” (for nickel steel) can be safely regarded as “high number” if obtained directly from CMP (beware of re-marked fakes).

CMP DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE WITH A ”LOW NUMBER” RECEIVER. Such rifles should be regarded as collector’s items, not “shooters”.</div></div>


</div></div>

Well shucks. I was sure hoping to fire this piece of history. I guess I'll just clean it really well and make sure it stays in good condition. All this has done is made me want to buy one I can shoot. You guys are always costing me money. LOL
Thanks for the info.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: My first vintage rifle

You'll not go wrong on picking up a late model or 1903a3, finest bolt action battle rifle made.

Second only to the 1898 Krag for having the smoothest action in a military rifle.

 

[pickpick]

Re: My first vintage rifle

Thanks KraigWY, I'll be on the look out for one.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: My first vintage rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll not go wrong on picking up a late model or 1903a3, finest bolt action battle rifle made.

Second only to the 1898 Krag for having the smoothest action in a military rifle.</div></div>

Sorry Kraig

They take second place to the K-31. Lets just say the Nazi's weren't interested (as good as the K98K is) in invading Switzerland.

That said, I'm sure there are a number of 1903A3 owners who could put a lot of 'new' scoped rifle owners to shame.

BTW, Kraig you still owe me pics of the MCP scope you bought from me. A backside shot over the hood of pickup while taking your elk doesn't count.

 

[Anvil_X]

Re: My first vintage rifle

I didn't even realize until I started thinking about getting a 1903, those rifles can be found nearly anywhere, doesn't even have to be an A3, I've seen at least 20 high number RIAs and SAs in the past week. but I guess its like how when you buy a car, and all you notice for the next couple of months is how many of the same make and model there are around....

Thats going to be a beautiful Mantlepiece, looks just like my Great-Granddad's. Just wish my aunt would stop stonewalling me and at least sign it over to me in the Will.

 

[Deej]

Re: My first vintage rifle

Very nice rifle, and sandwarrior i have to agree on the K 31 but the 03a3 does put up a fight if for no other reason than it was probally in the fight. when it is vintage day i am always torn between them. my son though has no doubts and grabs one of the K 31's. the other son grabs a mosin. Ya, i'm still wondering about that.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: My first vintage rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: graynewbie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice rifle, and sandwarrior i have to agree on the K 31 but the 03a3 does put up a fight if for no other reason than it was probally in the fight. when it is vintage day i am always torn between them. my son though has no doubts and grabs one of the K 31's. the other son grabs a mosin. Ya, i'm still wondering about that.</div></div>

If you ever get to Northern Idaho, I will take you and your two sons out shooting on a 1k range nearby. I have a K31 and a Mosin. We'll let them shoot it out and see if the son who likes Mosins', likes getting beat all the time. See if he wants to stick with one. (I'm betting he's really doing his math and seeing the Mosin is cheaper to buy and shoot)

 

[ringer706]

Re: My first vintage rifle

Look on the CMP forums for '03's. There's always a few on there.

That's a helluva find though, pretty neat. Is the barrel stamed 11-11? Seems to be in great shape, and with potentially an original barrel and other original parts, despite being a non-shooter, it's still a great find.

Congrats!

 

[MJ1]

Re: My first vintage rifle

For gods sake there are only a few less the six recoded problems with the receivers. Shooting them with reduced short course loads is rewarding. this is one of those make a mountain out of a mole hill stories.

If your really worried have a qualified person look it over.