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My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

tacticalcity

Private
Minuteman
Jul 24, 2006
19
0
50
CA
www.tacticalcity.com
While definately not a Sniper Rifle, I have always wanted to pickup a CETME or HK91 Clone.

I sell parts and accessories, but few of my suppliers carry them for this oldie but goodie. So I instead chose to focus on the AR15 Platform and to a lesser degree the Remington 700 platform for my personal projects.

However, given the current market conditions AR parts and most of the Remington 700 parts are in too high of a demand to hord for my own personal projects.

So with an AR15 Pistol Lower, an AR15 Rifle Lower, and an AR10 Rifle lower safely tucked away in my safe in case a ban comes along, I decided to try something new for a change and sold off all my personal AR parts to fund this new project.

I spent five days searching GunBroker.com for something unusual, and "off list" - I am in California and we have a lot more restrictions than elswhere in the Country.

SKS are too common, too long, and not very accurate. All the ones I saw were too expensive for what you get.

The AKs were priced about twice what I would ever consider paying for an AK. The demand for them is just as high as an AR15 right now.

The M1As were too expensive, but then they have always been too expensive. You get an excellent rifle, but it's just too rich for my blood right now.

The PTR91s were too expensive, and all were new and pretty much finished...so I would not have the fun of restoring them.

The Vector Arms and Bobcat HK Carbine clones all have ugly fake suppressors that I can't just get passed, and again priced way too high to be a project rifle.

That left a Century CETME. The AR madness has inflated their value a little, but not nearly as much as the other rifles I mentioned. Perhaps because they were somewhat hit and miss as to whether or not their quality was any good. Since my goal is to restore her...I was not too worried.

So I bought one, in need of some TLC for just over $500 (others in the same condition were going for $900).

It has yet to arrive. However, if I can take the seller at his word the bore is in excellent condition, as is the bolt. It supposedly feeds reliably without issue.

Assuming all of that is true I can focus on cosmetics. If not, this project just got very expensive.

I have already ordered the following parts:

1) New Green Wide Handguard w/ Bipod
2) New Green Grip
3) New HK Collapsible Stock (not tapco, the real one)
4) New CETME Flash Hider (the break they come with is loud as hell and not consistent with a CETME or HK)
5) New low profile extended scope mount that does not block the sights and extends pretty far out so a modern rifle scope does not look cheesy.

Additional planned improvements that will happen more slowly include:

1) Williams Trigger Job (the one they come with sucks)
2) Mid-Price Range Scope for the Target Range on throw lever rings (it's not a sniper rifle but I do what to see that 100 yard target)
3) Replace the CETME sight with an HK sight
4) Ceracoat Paint Job from somebody who can do professional work

I could not find a picture with the green stock and and grip, but this one shows where I am headed.

MY_CETME_1.jpg






 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

I am over the count. Everything (well almost everything) I am ordering new is a US Made part. The German stuff is only available in used condition, so that makes it very easy to stay in compliance. Additionally the receiver is US made.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

VERY FREAKING COOL!

Can you please tell me where you ordered those parts from? I have a SR9 HK (HK91 in sheep's clothing) and I can't stand the stock and forearm.

Can you also expand on this Williams Trigger Job, it could use some work as well?

Here's a link to the one I have:

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/civ/sr9/sr9.htm

Thanks,

-Pat
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

I'm such an ass....I didn't even realize you have a business. Pretty damn cool looking website, all kinds of goodies!

What part of Cali are you in?

-Pat
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

Getme's are highly under-rated.
Mine has HK clothes and Bill did his magic on the trigger-NICE!!
Mine is as far along as its going to get. I'd like a paddle mag release, but I'm not throwing more money at this rifle. It is what it is and it works well.

Here's my G3TME:
cetmebayo.jpg
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

I don't carry very many HK 91 type parts, because my suppliers don't carry them. This is kind of a specialty thing. So I am paying retail on this project like everybody else.

If you need a McMillan stock, or want to build an AR, or need range gear, or night sights, etc...I'm your guy!

I believe Willams Triggers is www.williamstriggers.com

Try these guys for the rest...

http://www.copesdistributing.net(new collapsible stocks)
http://www.robertrtg.com (lots of New US made compliance stuff and spelled out as such)
http://www.hkparts.net (they have some vortex hiders that had me drooling big time)
http://www.floridagunworks.com (great deal on an extended tactical scope mount but I serioulsy doubt it is steel and they had complete rear HK sights)

You really have to shop between them to find the best price and condition on each item. Some guys are as much as twice as high as the others for stuff in worse shape. And a lot of times they don't tell you the condition at all...which means I won't buy it. You just never know until you look at all of them first. It is not as standardized as I am used to. Don't settle for used without checking to see if the others have it new.

These guys should be paying me for the referrals
wink.gif
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

Thanks guy!

I was digging those stocks you have and I'm thinking about getting a pair of those boots before hunting season. I've also sent a link to your website to one of my buddies.

Sometime down the road (Got way to many Iron's in the fire right now) I want to talk to you about a 6.5 Grendel upper. I'm just not satisfied with 5.56mm and really don't have much use for it. I'll probably try to sell the carbon upper that's on it to help fund the 6.5

Thanks again for the help.

-Pat
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

Interesting build man! How well do these rifles shoot assuming you're getting a good factory barrel and using match ammo. Keep us updated.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

I wouldn't even waste the "good match ammo" on mine. It shoots minute of torso with surplus 7.62X51-exactly what a main battle rifle should do.
Even factory HK91's aren't all that accurate for the most part, with the exception of the PSG1 and such.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

HK's take a big hit in the accuracy department mostly due to the horrible factory trigger. Other than that, they actually have quite a few design features in their favor for building up an accurate rifle:

- When assembled correctly, the barrel is completely free floated. The handguard attaches to the cocking tube, not the barrel. The cocking tube *should* free float inside the front sight triple tree without touching by design, although many do have contact there.

- No gas system to attach to the barrel. The design basically uses the spent casing as a piston to drive the bolt carrier backward.

- The roller locking mechanism will chamber with zero headspace on all but severely undersized ammunition. The chambers are cut about .008" short, so the rollers "lock" into place when the shoulder of the cartridge bottoms out in the chamber.

Accuracy varies widely among CETME's, HK'S and their clones, but it's not uncommon to see them shoot quality ammunition into about 1 MOA when equipped with a decent scope/mount and a re-worked trigger.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

These things are kind of the AK of the .308 world...only they are better made and better looking. Can you tell I think AKs are over rated?

What I mean by that is you can abuse the hell out of them and they keep working. Feed them crappy ammo, forget to clean them, take them to the dry sandy desert, hot wet tropics or freezing arctic and they will continue to fire when others would surely have failed.

I've heard of sub-moa at 100+ yards with builds with new high-end barrels but never seen it. Always considered it fiction. It would beyond belief that I will be that lucky with one that has seen this much use.

The only reason I will be putting a scope on this rifle is because of where I live. We do not have a lot of run and gun tactical ranges with kill houses here. Bench rest and open ranges are all I have access to. So I am going to slap a decent scope on her and see what she can do, but not expect her to be a Remington 700 5R Milspec.

If I lived near a Front Sight type range...I would mount a micro Amipoint red dot sight instead.

 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

Sorry about the double post, my browser is acting up...

I say micro aimpoint so I could co-witness the sights. HK sights are so low that is really hard to do. When I see MP5s with full size aimpoints and raised mounts meant for AR15s or EOTechs it creeps me out. If the battery fails...no sights at all! The micro aimpoint should be low enough to co-witness so your irons are not blocked every time. A full size aimpoint with a very low mount may work as well. Would have to try it. On an AR15, EoTech all the way!

As for FMJBTs post, all great to know. I plan on having Williams work on my trigger which should cost under $100, but I am not planning on spending $900 for a sniper model lower with a perfect trigger.

If I can get 1 MOA, that would be well beyond my expectations.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

1 moa should be doable with some practice....
Bill's trigger work is well worth it. First pull is much improved, but where it really shines is next pulls. If you release the trigger from the rear after a shot just until the disconnect lets go, the break is great.

AK's of the 308 world, I like that!
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

How's the bolt gap? CETME by Century were notorious for their half-assed assembly and grinding down bolt to fit.

It looks very nice though!
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

Yea, I am big on a light trigger with a quick reset and crisp break. That's why my handgun of choice is an HK USP Compact. Can carry it cocked and locked, and have all of those in one, much more so than any other polymer handgun. Mastering the trigger reset is something I picked up at Front Sight. You would think the military would have tought me that one...budget cutbacks affected training I guess!

That finsished one is not mine, just what it is going to look like when done. Majority of the cosmetic parts have been ordered already. Trigger job, rear sight change, and paint job to follow at a later date! Easy stuff first!

It's not in my hands as of yet. Still in DROS phase. Welcome to the people's republic of California! 10 day waiting period. Have to install a maglock and use mags converted to only hold 10 rounds (easy to make). Lots of B.S., but it keeps me out of the clink(sp). So I am not sure what the bolt is like. Hoping for the best...will survive if it ends up needing more work than planned. Projects are supposed to take a while.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

Forgot to mention the other major limiting factor for HK accuracy:
Lack of decent barrels.

PTR and Ohio Rapid Fire both make OK barrels that should get into MOA or better, but true match grade barrels are hard to come by. The fluted chamber seems to scare off most barrel makers.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

Doubt I will be replacing the barrel. It is still clean (or so I have been told...we will see). Whatever it can do will be fine with me. This is more of a "I always wanted one" thing. If it has limitations I will live with them. Little things I can fix. Major things...not so much. And replacing a barrel on these seems pretty major to me...especially when it won't result in a major improvement.

Keep in mind, I have an AR10 lower in the safe along with a few other caliber lowers. I don't want to get TOO invested in this build.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't even waste the "good match ammo" on mine. It shoots minute of torso with surplus 7.62X51-exactly what a main battle rifle should do.
Even factory HK91's aren't all that accurate for the most part, with the exception of the PSG1 and such. </div></div>thats not quite true i have a hk91 that does about .75 moa at 100 yds with regular ammo when I do my part.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

Well, the collapsible stock is more uncomfortable on my face than I thought it would be. With a .308 round, I would imagine it is gonna hurt! So I'll most likely be selling it off and sticking with a plastic A2 stock.
 
Re: My latest project rifle...CETME/HK91 Clone!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalCity</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry about the double post, my browser is acting up...

I say micro aimpoint so I could co-witness the sights. HK sights are so low that is really hard to do. When I see MP5s with full size aimpoints and raised mounts meant for AR15s or EOTechs it creeps me out. If the battery fails...no sights at all! The micro aimpoint should be low enough to co-witness so your irons are not blocked every time. A full size aimpoint with a very low mount may work as well. Would have to try it. On an AR15, EoTech all the way!
</div></div>

Like EoTechs too a lot, have one in 16" Bushy.
Was looking for delicate red-dot for my MP5, and ended up to Micro T-1.
Didnt want to mess up weight and nice balance that MP5 has.

But really, presuming your LOS is same than in MP5, co-witness with it is not going to be possible.
Even with the lowest rail in market (MFI), Micro still blocks rear sight line - but Aimpoint M2 FOW with lowest mount comes tad lower than with micro. Just enough.

May sound bizarre when comparing sight sizes, but thats how it is.

O.T.
Othervise- I founded Micro to be right choice for me- C-W or not.
That sucker seem to be able to take serious beating too- they mount it directly in 9mm pistol slides.
Battery lasts decade or so, likely/hopefully I will never need backup sights anyways.