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Gunsmithing My new wildcat, the 6.5 Creedless

Dolomite_Supafly

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 15, 2009
996
601
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E. TN
So I have been wanting to do this for a while now. I finally got everything I need except the reamer and tomorrow I will get that ordered.

It is a wildcat based on the 256 Winchester Magnum which was popular in the 50's and 60's. There were factory loads as well as revolvers chambered in it. It is a 357 Magnum necked down to shoot a ~6.5mm bullet.

Because I wanted it to feed from an AR magazine it had to be rimless and 223 Remington is close, cheap and plentiful. But because the 223 is slightly smaller than 256 Win Mag I need a custom reamer. I am ordering it tomorrow.

To make the cases I cut a 223 case at 1.280”. I use 300 Blackout does to partially form the neck followed by the 256 Win Mag dies to finish making the brass. After firing the body can be sized using standard 223 dies. I will use the 256 Win Mag dies to bump the shoulder back into spec. In the pictures that is a 140g 6.5mm bullet and it doesn’t go past the neck at 2.19” overall length.

I am using a Model 7 to build the pistol. It was sold as just a receiver so it is legal as a pistol. I am building it into an XP100 clone that is rear grip that feeds from an AR magazine. I will use a 7 twist barrel somewhere between 8" and 12" in length.

I am having a pistol stock made that will be inletted for PTG AR bottom metal. Rather than use off the shelf wood I am using spalted elm from a tree cut off my property. The tree was here on the family property that I grew up on and has been here since I was a child. Makes a connection to me and where I grew up and now live.

It isn't a long range caliber but should make for a fun shooter with heavy, high BC bullets. I do not plan on shooting subsonic but it will definitely have a silencer.
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I've been struggling with a name. First it was 6.5 Kurtz, then 6.5 D-S but then I thought 6.5 Creedless would not only be fitting but funny as well.

I will post updates as process is made.
 
There's a local guy who built a rifle running a 6.5 Creedmoor reamer in short. He calls it the "6.5 Creed more or less." I don't recall what his objective was, he has all sorts of weird stuff as he's got a pile of tools and lots of burnt-out barrels he chops/re-chambers for free.

Good luck with your project. I've got a few wildcats of my own, they're fun to play with.
 
What length did you end up with for the barrel?
 
My biggest reason for going the way I did was cost. I use standard 223 dies and standard 256 Win Mag dies. I knew I would need a custom reamer but with any wildcat you probably will. And considering the short barrel I am using I do not need a lot of case capacity.

If I can get to 2,000 fps with a 125g bullet I will be very pleased.
 
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100 Nosler BT from a 10.5” bbl, 2178 fps
125 will be about 2000 fps from a 10.5” bbl.

I have a bolt gun in 6.5 MUTT also.
120 Cartarouchi VLDs @ 2400 from a 26” bbl.
140s were really slow, forget how slow but slow enough I decided 120s were as heavy as I’d use.

You’ll enjoy the 6.5 Creedless, wildcats are a little spendy but definitely fun.
 
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Just an update.

I decided to go a slightly different route, mostly because of bullet selection. Rather than 6.5mm I went with a 6mm and for cost I decided to use the 221 Fireball instead of the 256 Winchester Magnum. Now I can use 55 grain to 115 grain bullets. 55 grain should put me north of 2,700 fps, or at least that is what I am hoping for. a 55 grain out of a 221 Fireball will get to 2,700 fps so it should be possible.

I started with a set of standard RCBS 221 Fireball dies. Then, to keep from working the brass so much, I used a 17/64 carbide reamer to open the neck portion of the die. This gives the perfect dimension to use a 6mm bullet. I have about 100 pieces of brass. It took some time, and cost me some brass, to figure out a reliable process for making the brass from Lake City brass but I think I have got it down. The key is to make sure the brass doesn't have any dents or kinks in what will be the new neck.

And when I was discussing this with a friend he said what I made was the 6x35 KAC. So I did some digging and KAC said they took the 221 Fireball and necked it up to accept a 6mm bullet to make the 6x35. It supposedly has more energy than a 5.56 from the muzzle and is better suited to shorter barrels which is good because I am building a bolt action pistol and the 6x35 barrel will be ~9" in length and threaded for a silencer. Apparently the Secret Service is now using KAC's little 4 pound rifle chambered in 6x35 to protect the president.

The stock is being made by Jim Rockwell who makes pistol stocks for bolt actions. I am still waiting on JGS to finish the reamer but it should not be too much longer. For a barrel I am using a 7.7 twist X-Caliber that I will thread, chamber and machine myself. I also have a few Green Mountain barrels in 223 Remington and 300 Blackout.
 
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I've toyed with the idea of necking up the .221 fireball before, too. Saw the 6x35 development and think it'd be a great little SBR/PDW concept. Never got around to futzing with any of it though. My conclusion was that you could probably do a 6AR or 6.5 Grendel just as easy and have more performance.