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My Wilcox RAPTAR ES review

TheGerman

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  • Jan 25, 2010
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    the Westside
    So I have quite a few IM's asking about the RAPTAR since I got it, and after spending most of last week in the mountains with it on a Mk12Mod1 shooting a lot of high angle shots, I think I'm ready to give this a basic review that will answer most of the questions.

    I think for night time shooting and hunting under any kind of time constraint on UKD targets that you may not have taken a shot on because you weren't able to use a LRF at night or didn't have enough time to come off the gun, range the target and get back on the gun; the RAPTAR fills that requirement with only the discontinued (I think?) Radius in the same category. Until using the RAPTAR, I was always limited on ranging UKD targets via someone on a spotter equipped with nightvision and a reticle slaved LRF; this works very well on a PLRF15+Trimble+FFS setup, but requires 2 people and a lot of equipment to do. You could also rig a PVS14 to various LRF via a monoloc or other hardware, but coming off the gun to locate a target at night, range it and then reacquire it through the optic is less than ideal, especially in the dark with a moving target that can easily obscure itself.

    For 'fixing' the above, the RAPTAR does exactly that. But, after using it, I did come across quite a few limitations and quirks that just made me shake my head as to who thought (or the total lack of thought) certain things were a good idea.


    Random initial impressions

    - So the ES version is tauted as a LRF capable of 1500m that is weapon mounted. It also includes a Class 1 laser and a Class 1 illuminator. This struck me as weird; why put a 1500m capable range finder, on a unit that would only illuminate a target for a very short distance? It's like putting racing slicks on a Datsun. So short of someone with a regular power illuminator lighting a target up for you for PID and ranging, I'm really confused as to why they'd even bother with the illuminator (more on this below) as you wouldn't have time/nor the need to range a target for carbine engagment distances where the illuminator MIGHT actually help yet the illimunator won't work for 97% of the range of the range finder. Figure out what the fuck you want here; a weapon mounted range finder out to 1500m or a civi tier illuminator; one of these things does not belong.

    - All of the 'action shots' you see of the RAPTAR are on front of some guy's carbine up front at 12 o clock. Mind you that if you plan to use a clip on, the RAPTAR at 12 o clock will eat up quite a bit of real estate and depending on the height of your optic and clip on, will obscure it. I couldn't mount the RAPTAR at 12 o clock with a PVS24 and Nightforce 2.5-10x24 in NF rings setup due to height and instead had to put it on the 9 o clock rail.

    - If you have a bipod as well as any other equipment on the rail, the footprint of the RAPTAR is larger than a PEQ15 as far as width. There was basically one spot where I could get it on the forward 9 o clock rail where it wasn't running into some piece of either the PVS24 on top or the Harris 6-9 bipod in a KAC mount on the bottom. There was 1 position where it cleared everything, just barely. The only other alternative would have been to have it WAY back on the 9 o clock rail which is a problem in itself.

    - Whoever layed out the menu and menu 'terms' for what means what, needs to be shot in the face at close range. The unit does come with a quick reference card for the plethora of terms for both settings and configuration, but you end up with a list of random things that no one will remember or make sense of like 'di5d' somehow means brightness adjustment and 'Lsto' means laser timeout, etc.


    The Good

    - It ranges. After having it zero'd, we took it out and shot at steel at distances out to 800 where we knew we were aiming at the same thing with both the RAPTAR and PLRF15. Both were within +- 2 yards every time. We didn't go further because the terrain behind was a mountain ridge and there was no way to ensure we'd be aiming at the same spot in the distance; but out to 800 leaves me with absolutely no doubt it will keep up to its stated 1500m. I did range random things and got a reading out to almost 1700, so it does work, but just wasn't able to confirm that range versus the PLRF15.

    - Sighting the unit in is easy. You need a bore sighter to do this the easiest way and you can even do it in a hallway at your house assuming its long enough. Use the sight in target thats included (no shooting necessary), turn on the visable laser on the RAPTAR, put your bore sighter in centered on the 'bore' target and just walk the RAPTAR into its circle on the target. Done. Did this at 35 yards and it held out to 800+.

    - All of the lasers and LRF are slaved. This also allows you while using night vision to verify at distance that your LRF is 'looking' at your target by hitting the IR laser to see what its hitting while you're on target with your reticle.

    - The IR laser on high doesn't suck. It's not the full power death star ray that the high setting on a PEQ15 gives you (which we dont use a lot anyways other than designating targets at range and/or having a brighter laser to differentiate who is designating) and it will give you a solid point out to 800+. There is a high/low setting for the laser and we only used the high setting as the low setting seemed really weak and we didn't bother with it past that.

    - Even though there is a setting via the knob on the unit to select the ranging function, both the button on the actual unit to range as well as the provided cable will have the unit range regardless of what setting its on. You don't need to fuck around with laser/range settings this way; I eventually just left the unit knob setting on the IR laser and never moved it again until I turned the unit off as the rest of the settings are either the visible laser, configuration or the useless IR illuminator.

    - The display brightness settings (once you actually figure them out) are both legit daylight bright and can be dimmed for night time.

    - Worked fine in both 100 degrees and dusty during the day and mid 40s at night.


    The Bad

    - The IR illuminator is absolute Tier 1 fucking dogshit. To say its useless is an understatment. I'm positive that you can buy some IR flashlight from China off of ebay for $4 and get a better illuminator than this farce. If you were in the market for an IR illuminator that will bloom off of EVERYTHING in front of you for 10 yards and then not light anything up at all after 20 yards, you're in for a treat. The ATPIAL 'C' versions sold as civilian models are garbage and I get the whole Class 1 and III thing and all this fantastic safety bullshit; but whatever they have in this is the unit that the garbage civilian units outperformed. This unit is a range finder with a working/useable IR laser, and thats it. The better option would have been to remove this completely and lower the price and/or add some other useful function; a Hula girl taped on top of the unit would have been an improvment over this. The best option would have been to throw whoever thought this was a good idea off a fucking railbridge.

    - The mount that attaches to a mount that attaches to a pic rail is retarded. I'm sure this had something to do with someone thinking these units could be directly mounted to a STANAG 4694 hole that no one on the planet uses; but that just makes it even more retarded. I will admit that it did not move over the coarse of 3 days humping this around in the mountains, but put a fucking QD locking mount on the thing like people managed to figure out forever ago on even the PEQ2A and stop trying to overengineer failure; mind you, this is coming from a German.

    - There is no cosign/angle from 0 feature. I would have taken this in a heartbeat over the shitshow of an illuminator. While this may not be an issue for shooting done on relative flat ground, high angle shooting, especially at night where the weapon mounted LRF solves a lot of problems still requires you to adjust ballistic range. This would have been a fantastic feature to really make this an all-in-one unit as far as providing range, while still on the gun. Now I still need to do math even if the unit tells me the range, and I have a range card for the local DA set up on a glowing arm board that I can see while on the gun. Swing and a miss. But hey, it has a shitty illuminator though!

    - It seems to really drink the battery. After the first night I managed to use the battery strength function (which apparently makes total sense being named 'bfft' in the configuration menu) and got that it was down to 53% already. The only functions that were used were an occassional IR laser and using the range finder. Obviously I didn't waste any battery on leaving that illuminator on and there's nothing else that its doing to drain power, but its down to 53%. Bring spare batteries or you're gonna have a bad time.

    - Not sure who is really 'at fault' with this, but another big miss for the RAPTAR is its inability to communicate with any ballistics software. As far as I know (correct me here if I'm missing something) is that this unit does not have Bluetooth (something else that should have been put in instead of that dumb fucking illuminator) and will only connect to AB Ballistics via a cable, that cannot connect to anything directly because it needs to connect to the "Hud" that then connects to the ballistics software unit. This makes for a real clunky arrangment that is an obvious afterthought. There is another tier above this with the included ballistics suite, but is several thousand more and improves on nothing else.

    - It has an insane MSRP and list price on sites that sell it. The MSRP and most posted prices are significantly (2-3x) over what you can get them for. Not sure if this has something to do with the fantastically retarded DoD procurement pricing matrix or Wilcox being under the impression that this thing can cure cancer; but either way, its VASTLY overpriced for what it is. Even at the 'street price' we've kind of figured out, I'm still on the fence as to if its worth it or not. So if you're seriously looking at one of these at the 6k+ sites are listing them for, consider that at 1/3 the price I'm still kind of 'meh' with it.


    Overall its a well built unit that ranges well and negates some of the issues you have with shooting at night. While some of the features are nice (primarily the LRF IR laser and display) other features are a total waste and should have been replaced with useful improvements (cosine, bluetooth/serial connection) that could have really made this shine as an indespensible piece of equipment. A solid range finder and laser designator, I see the company that manages to integrate the missing aspects of the RAPTAR along with its positive features as being the ones that introduce something that will see a much more widespread demand.
     
    Last edited:
    Good write up. We share the same general consensus. You buy the ES for the LRF and the IR Laser; that's it.

    Strip out the illuminator, add QD capability, give it a smaller form factor, allow it to upload AB data (like the S) and drop the price. This recipe would sell a ton of units.
     
    Strip out the illuminator, add QD capability, give it a smaller form factor, allow it to upload AB data (like the S) and drop the price. This recipe would sell a ton of units.

    Silencerco had this in the works (or similar) and was waiting for their Gen 1 Radius to take off. Unfortunately the market failed to see the value of what they brought to the table at the price point they did. Plus the mounting system could have been better. Then I believe some internal shit happened and that prototype is sitting on a shelf somewhere.

    Still thinking of making an adjustable QD mount for my sig 2400 ABS. Then have some electro guru rig me a small display screen that can give readout numerical values. Thought of cobbing the read out screen on one of my Radius to do this, but probably won't jive. Then I was wishful thinking that Sig would save me the headaches and reveal a new gun mounted LRF with AB that has a solid repeatable QD mount. This could double duty as hand held and gun mounted LRF along with solver--kill three birds with one stone. But yeah probably better to save the weight and just make a dedicated gun mounted rig that co-witness with reticle. Ha, awhile back I even called silencerco and begged them to manufac. that Gen 2.

    @TheGerman Your ES a V1 or V2? I believe all ES are V1 but just checking. I think V2 only got lotted to S/ES and S.
     
    Last edited:
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    Silencerco had this in the works (or similar) and was waiting for their Gen 1 Radius to take off. Unfortunately the market failed to see the value of what they brought to the table at the price point they did. Then I believe some internal shit happened and that prototype is sitting on a shelf somewhere.

    Still thinking of making an adjustable QD mount for my sig 2400 ABS. Then have some electro guru rig me a small display screen that can give readout numerical values. Thought of cobbing the read out screen on one of my Radius to do this, but probably won't jive. Then I was wishful thinking that Sig would save me the headaches and reveal a new gun mounted LRF with AB that has a solid repeatable QD mount. This could double duty as hand held and gun mounted LRF along with solver--kill three birds with one stone. But yeah probably better to save the weight and just make a dedicated gun mounted rig that co-witness with reticle. Ha, awhile back I even called silencerco and begged them to manufac. that Gen 2.

    @TheGerman Your ES a V1 or V2? I believe all ES are V1 but just checking. I think V2 only got lotted to S/ES and S.

    How do I check the version? Let me guess, that fun menu of randomly spelled out stuff?

    I've said it before. Whoever makes a hardened weapon mounted range finder with the features I mentioned above while cutting out all of the bullshit and can directly communicate via Bluetooth and cable in a format that can talk to your phone as well as specific ballistic computers instead of the daiseychained stuff the AB HUD does, will win that market.
     
    I guess my radius does the job well enough. I don't feel so bad for missing out on the ground buy or other sales on these.
     
    How do I check the version? Let me guess, that fun menu of randomly spelled out stuff?

    I've said it before. Whoever makes a hardened weapon mounted range finder with the features I mentioned above while cutting out all of the bullshit and can directly communicate via Bluetooth and cable in a format that can talk to your phone as well as specific ballistic computers instead of the daiseychained stuff the AB HUD does, will win that market.


    Agree!!!

    Otherwise, checking the version I believe in the about menu under HW (hardware) should be a 1 or 2 listed there. Wig helped me with this one.

    V2 being the more powerful laser

    Pic from Litz's book on where the V1 and V2 Wilcox stack up against others. Good LRF
     

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    So I have quite a few IM's asking about the RAPTAR since I got it, and after spending most of last week in the mountains with it on a Mk12Mod1 shooting a lot of high angle shots, I think I'm ready to give this a basic review that will answer most of the questions.

    I think for night time shooting and hunting under any kind of time constraint on UKD targets that you may not have taken a shot on because you weren't able to use a LRF at night or didn't have enough time to come off the gun, range the target and get back on the gun; the RAPTAR fills that requirement with only the discontinued (I think?) Radius in the same category. Until using the RAPTAR, I was always limited on ranging UKD targets via someone on a spotter equipped with nightvision and a reticle slaved LRF; this works very well on a PLRF15+Trimble+FFS setup, but requires 2 people and a lot of equipment to do. You could also rig a PVS14 to various LRF via a monoloc or other hardware, but coming off the gun to locate a target at night, range it and then reacquire it through the optic is less than ideal, especially in the dark with a moving target that can easily obscure itself.

    For 'fixing' the above, the RAPTAR does exactly that. But, after using it, I did come across quite a few limitations and quirks that just made me shake my head as to who thought (or the total lack of thought) certain things were a good idea.


    Random initial impressions

    - So the ES version is tauted as a LRF capable of 1500m that is weapon mounted. It also includes a Class 1 laser and a Class 1 illuminator. This struck me as weird; why put a 1500m capable range finder, on a unit that would only illuminate a target for a very short distance? It's like putting racing slicks on a Datsun. So short of someone with a regular power illuminator lighting a target up for you for PID and ranging, I'm really confused as to why they'd even bother with the illuminator (more on this below) as you wouldn't have time/nor the need to range a target for carbine engagment distances where the illuminator MIGHT actually help yet the illimunator won't work for 97% of the range of the range finder. Figure out what the fuck you want here; a weapon mounted range finder out to 1500m or a civi tier illuminator; one of these things does not belong.

    - All of the 'action shots' you see of the RAPTAR are on front of some guy's carbine up front at 12 o clock. Mind you that if you plan to use a clip on, the RAPTAR at 12 o clock will eat up quite a bit of real estate and depending on the height of your optic and clip on, will obscure it. I couldn't mount the RAPTAR at 12 o clock with a PVS24 and Nightforce 2.5-10x24 in NF rings setup due to height and instead had to put it on the 9 o clock rail.

    - If you have a bipod as well as any other equipment on the rail, the footprint of the RAPTAR is larger than a PEQ15 as far as width. There was basically one spot where I could get it on the forward 9 o clock rail where it wasn't running into some piece of either the PVS24 on top or the Harris 6-9 bipod in a KAC mount on the bottom. There was 1 position where it cleared everything, just barely. The only other alternative would have been to have it WAY back on the 9 o clock rail which is a problem in itself.

    - Whoever layed out the menu and menu 'terms' for what means what, needs to be shot in the face at close range. The unit does come with a quick reference card for the plethora of terms for both settings and configuration, but you end up with a list of random things that no one will remember or make sense of like 'di5d' somehow means brightness adjustment and 'Lsto' means laser timeout, etc.


    The Good

    - It ranges. After having it zero'd, we took it out and shot at steel at distances out to 800 where we knew we were aiming at the same thing with both the RAPTAR and PLRF15. Both were within +- 2 yards every time. We didn't go further because the terrain behind was a mountain ridge and there was no way to ensure we'd be aiming at the same spot in the distance; but out to 800 leaves me with absolutely no doubt it will keep up to its stated 1500m. I did range random things and got a reading out to almost 1700, so it does work, but just wasn't able to confirm that range versus the PLRF15.

    - Sighting the unit in is easy. You need a bore sighter to do this the easiest way and you can even do it in a hallway at your house assuming its long enough. Use the sight in target thats included (no shooting necessary), turn on the visable laser on the RAPTAR, put your bore sighter in centered on the 'bore' target and just walk the RAPTAR into its circle on the target. Done. Did this at 35 yards and it held out to 800+.

    - All of the lasers and LRF are slaved. This also allows you while using night vision to verify at distance that your LRF is 'looking' at your target by hitting the IR laser to see what its hitting while you're on target with your reticle.

    - The IR laser on high doesn't suck. It's not the full power death star ray that the high setting on a PEQ15 gives you (which we dont use a lot anyways other than designating targets at range and/or having a brighter laser to differentiate who is designating) and it will give you a solid point out to 800+. There is a high/low setting for the laser and we only used the high setting as the low setting seemed really weak and we didn't bother with it past that.

    - Even though there is a setting via the knob on the unit to select the ranging function, both the button on the actual unit to range as well as the provided cable will have the unit range regardless of what setting its on. You don't need to fuck around with laser/range settings this way; I eventually just left the unit knob setting on the IR laser and never moved it again until I turned the unit off as the rest of the settings are either the visible laser, configuration or the useless IR illuminator.

    - The display brightness settings (once you actually figure them out) are both legit daylight bright and can be dimmed for night time.

    - Worked fine in both 100 degrees and dusty during the day and mid 40s at night.


    The Bad

    - The IR illuminator is absolute Tier 1 fucking dogshit. To say its useless is an understatment. I'm positive that you can buy some IR flashlight from China off of ebay for $4 and get a better illuminator than this farce. If you were in the market for an IR illuminator that will bloom off of EVERYTHING in front of you for 10 yards and then not light anything up at all after 20 yards, you're in for a treat. The ATPIAL 'C' versions sold as civilian models are garbage and I get the whole Class 1 and III thing and all this fantastic safety bullshit; but whatever they have in this is the unit that the garbage civilian units outperformed. This unit is a range finder with a working/useable IR laser, and thats it. The better option would have been to remove this completely and lower the price and/or add some other useful function; a Hula girl taped on top of the unit would have been an improvment over this. The best option would have been to throw whoever thought this was a good idea off a fucking railbridge.

    - The mount that attaches to a mount that attaches to a pic rail is retarded. I'm sure this had something to do with someone thinking these units could be directly mounted to a STANAG 4694 hole that no one on the planet uses; but that just makes it even more retarded. I will admit that it did not move over the coarse of 3 days humping this around in the mountains, but put a fucking QD locking mount on the thing like people managed to figure out forever ago on even the PEQ2A and stop trying to overengineer failure; mind you, this is coming from a German.

    - There is no cosign/angle from 0 feature. I would have taken this in a heartbeat over the shitshow of an illuminator. While this may not be an issue for shooting done on relative flat ground, high angle shooting, especially at night where the weapon mounted LRF solves a lot of problems still requires you to adjust ballistic range. This would have been a fantastic feature to really make this an all-in-one unit as far as providing range, while still on the gun. Now I still need to do math even if the unit tells me the range, and I have a range card for the local DA set up on a glowing arm board that I can see while on the gun. Swing and a miss. But hey, it has a shitty illuminator though!

    - It seems to really drink the battery. After the first night I managed to use the battery strength function (which apparently makes total sense being named 'bfft' in the configuration menu) and got that it was down to 53% already. The only functions that were used were an occassional IR laser and using the range finder. Obviously I didn't waste any battery on leaving that illuminator on and there's nothing else that its doing to drain power, but its down to 53%. Bring spare batteries or you're gonna have a bad time.

    - Not sure who is really 'at fault' with this, but another big miss for the RAPTAR is its inability to communicate with any ballistics software. As far as I know (correct me here if I'm missing something) is that this unit does not have Bluetooth (something else that should have been put in instead of that dumb fucking illuminator) and will only connect to AB Ballistics via a cable, that cannot connect to anything directly because it needs to connect to the "Hud" that then connects to the ballistics software unit. This makes for a real clunky arrangment that is an obvious afterthought. There is another tier above this with the included ballistics suite, but is several thousand more and improves on nothing else.

    - It has an insane MSRP and list price on sites that sell it. The MSRP and most posted prices are significantly (2-3x) over what you can get them for. Not sure if this has something to do with the fantastically retarded DoD procurement pricing matrix or Wilcox being under the impression that this thing can cure cancer; but either way, its VASTLY overpriced for what it is. Even at the 'street price' we've kind of figured out, I'm still on the fence as to if its worth it or not. So if you're seriously looking at one of these at the 6k+ sites are listing them for, consider that at 1/3 the price I'm still kind of 'meh' with it.


    Overall its a well built unit that ranges well and negates some of the issues you have with shooting at night. While some of the features are nice (primarily the LRF IR laser and display) other features are a total waste and should have been replaced with useful improvements (cosine, bluetooth/serial connection) that could have really made this shine as an indespensible piece of equipment. A solid range finder and laser designator, I see the company that manages to integrate the missing aspects of the RAPTAR along with its positive features as being the ones that introduce something that will see a much more widespread demand.
    Absolute fantastic review. It will certainly help those in the fence.

    I wish all reviews were like this.
     
    Few people who understand a broke dick dog will argue with the dog's seller, just sayin.....
    That review says what I wanted to say, but didnt give enough of a shit to write up.
    Used both the Radius and Raptor. Glad somebody else owns them now. Just sayin.

    Plrf 15 and a pvs14 will get by just fine. For me.
     
    @TheGerman great review !!

    BTW I'm the guy that was selling these "dogs" :D

    ==
    Whether a person needs a RAPTAR or a Radius or neither ... depends in part on them ... and in part on what they are trying to do.

    With the RAPTAR group buy ... about 13 folks that bought them were ELR, day shooters ... and other 13 were night hunters.

    For the ELR guys, whether the RAPTAR will work for them depends on the distances they will be shooting, the targets and the conditions.

    Here's a table I've shown before that gives us various ranging affecting conditions and those effects.

    45219082035_98970fc712_b.jpg


    So, one thing is that the difference between night and day is literally night and day. Ranging out to 5000+yds at night with the RAPTAR is routine ... and that's as far as I can get from my land even from the hill tops. With the Radius 3,300yds is routine at night.

    Now in the day ... 1,100yds for the Radius is routine ... 1,500yds is sometimes ... With the RAPTAR routine is about a mile 1,760yds on small targets ... but I have repeatedly gotten to 4,000yds off a galvanized shed. For large targets like hillsides ... the RAPTAR can do 2,600yds routinely ... in the day ... in light rain (see all the posts I made in the RAPTAR Group Buy thread if you want more details https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/raptar-es-group-buy.6940909/ )


    ==
    The big difference between the RAPTAR and the Radius is the ranging laser. The Radius (like most commerical range finders) uses a 905nm laser with many pulses and averages the results. The RAPTAR (like most military range finders) uses a MUCH more powerful laser at the 1550nm frequency. This is ok because 1550nm is inherently eyesafe ... at the power ratings in these devices. It is the fact that the cornea absorbs the 1550nm laser that drives the military to use them. And this additional power on the ranging laser makes the RAPTAR out perform the Radius and most/all commerical range finders ... the big trade off is cost. The 1550nm lasers cost a bundle more.

    ==

    Now, yes the RAPTAR has an ir-aiming laser and that can be used for hunting. And yes it has a useless illuminator, which I've never used. I doubt Wilcox said, "Let's build a range finder and put the crappiest illum on it we can find." I think the RAPTAR was first a military unit and then somebody said "maybe civilians will buy these" ... and so they dumbed down the laser and the illum. The laser is usable, the Illum is not. but the big price difference is due to the 1550nm ranging laser.

    ==
    So does anyone need rifle mounted range finders ? That's a good question. I don't do ELR, so that's not a use case for me. But for night hunting, I use rifle mounted range finders and that help me get hits. But you can also use faster flying cartridges to mitigate the need for a range finder. I choose not to do that. But for those who would shoot say 87gr VMAX out of a 6mmCM ... hecque maybe you don't need a range finder for night hunting :D

    I can and do memorize my DOPE at 50yd increments out to 500yds ... and if I know the distance ... I can hit a yote because I'm always within a 4 inch danger space ... and if I'm on my land ... I know enough land marks do judge the distance close enough to get within that 4 inch verticle danger space.

    ==
    I have a RAPTAR S/ES which includes the ballistics module. You can use a Radius or a RAPTAR ES with a Kestrel 5700 and get the same function. Then the differences is seconds. Do you need those seconds ? Maybe for a yote shot you do. Not for much else.

    So do I need a RAPTAR S/ES ? Probably not, but it is a nice to have. When I want something else more, I'll sell it and I doubt it will reduce my capability by much.

    ==

    But between the RAPTAR and the Radius and no range find on the rifle ... that's a tougher call. The RAPTAR is definitely a better range finder (due to the 1550nm). But is it worth 5 Radiae ? Probably not.
    That said, I have 2 Radiae and 1 RAPTAR.
    I have one of my Radiae on my patrol, which is now semi-permanently setup as a handheld thermal range finder.

    If I had an ES RAPTAR, I'd have the RAPTAR on there.

    47413738672_7cfff79914_k.jpg


    46556253095_8c216cc66f_k.jpg


    Shortly I'll get a raytheon 3xg magnifier for the patrol and then increase the distance I can accurately range.

    I think the thermal range finder is a great use case. And thanks to scrappin' for nudging me to get it working.

    ==
    I have the other Radius and the RAPTAR S/ES on my two active bolt guns. And for UKD shooting out to 900yds at night ... they both get the job done.

    ==
    In talking with folks during the RAPTAR Group Buy ... it struck me that some folks just want a rifle mounted range finder .. they want the additional confidence that the range can be determined more precisely and they want the speed. So this is another variable in the equation of what is right for a given person. Do they need it ? Maybe not. Do they want it ? Yes, some definitely do.

    Other considerations. The Radius is discontinued and AKAIK not supported. The RAPTAR is still supported by Wilcox.
    How much is that worth ? Well if your Radius breaks right now, you can probably buy another one for $700 ish ... so you can go thru 4-5 Radiae before you exclaim "dang, I shoulda bought a RAPTAR" ... but do you want or need the additional capability of the 1550nm ranging laser ? That's the other key variable in my head. I don't even think about the aiming laser ... and I've never even used the illumn on the RAPTAR. For me these are range finders. All my carbines have lasers on them and I use them. But my rifles do not. And if I've using NV clipon on a rifle I put them ELIR-3 on there for an illuminator.


    ==
    But it is always great to read other people's real world experience with these widgets. A lot of people have them, but not many people write about them ... so a big THANKS to @TheGerman for this review !!!
    :)
     
    No offense intended to the dog seller. Absolutely no offense.
    Something that costs that much with a junk feature on it is a .......
    Something that costs that much without a mil spec qd is .....

    Problems I have had with 7/8's of the people who show up with Radius or Raptor, or some other carbuncles attached is that they dont really know how to use any of them 'effectively' under normal conditions much less stress conditions.
    Under stress conditions, most shots are lost bc of finger-f'ing the units, trying to make it work, due to owner unfamiliarity with their own property.

    This is frustrating to me because I want the pestilence dead right there and as many of them as possible. And when finger-f'ing the unit allows the pestilence to walk off.... its wasting my valuable pestilence removal time as well as other participants time.

    The addition of too many carbuncles creates a non smooth presentation of the firearm to the pestilence and the majority of the people cant hold the gun up long enough to fire on demand in the respiratory pause, and this is generally without carbuncles, much less with.

    All that gear attached may be fine in a stand, hide, or prepared shooting position when you have plenty of time, but it's not that great on quick.

    Pestilence removal in our area needs quick.
    If the pestilence is armed and dangerous, and close enough, the quicker the better. The raptor did not provide this level of quick for me. It was added weight and unbalance I did not need. It hindered me.

    B4 there were radius and Raptor, we did it the old way. Daytime recce, mapping/diagrams/field drawings and plrf10 or 15. Then a scope setting allowing hold over/under for that specific area if longer distance, or hold overs if reasonably not long. Made a 410 yard hold over three nights ago. Bang/down, move on to the next one. I know, it was just luck, not... but.

    Wig knows his properties, I know mine. The raptor was not my friend. And, i did not like the same things the Deutsche-mon didnt like. And I hated it when it blinded me (blooming) when walking on the pestilence and another user turned it on thinking something.....

    Ymmv VR...
    Repeating, no offense intended to the dog seller, none....??

    Does the Raptor range accurately and allow fast Christmas tree reticle shots..... oh yes...
    Will a Christmas tree reticle help me make a running shot in medium brush and cover at distance. It has not for me... ymmv
     
    Last edited:
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    No offense to the huskey!!!

    ==
    I don't really "hunt" much technically. What I do is "critter control". That means a few things. One is, I'm not trying to eradicate any body. The yotes and coons and opossum are in the business of managing critters I'm not interested in being in the business of managing. So if they are not near the critters I'm protecting I leave them alone. My primary purpose out there at night (besides having fun and getting some exercise .. both physical and mental) is defending the chickens and the calves. I do this via two methods:
    01 - Walking and Stalking ... a.k.a. "patrol style" ...
    02 - Setting up in a likely spot and waiting for them to come ... a.k.a. "overwatch"
    And these have evolved a bit.
    I used to only do 01 .. .and I had thermal scopes on my carbines. But in 'walkin and stalkin" mobility is king ... now I use lasers only off the carbines (all 5.56 with 10 or 14 inch barrels) ... the thermals are all now on my head. At least a coti/14 on one eye .. .and often a skeet (or patrol) on the other eye. In lightest config ... just the coti/14 and night cap and 7 lb 9 oz carbine with laser. These light setups are great for crossing creeks, going up and down the banks ... and crossing fences .. and moving thru the woods and up and down the hills.
    But I actually do 02 more than 01 now ... 'cause I've got things arranged so the cows are almost always calving in the alfalfa patch where I can setup and watch over them. With a rifle on a tripod and a thermal clipon. Then distance shooting capability replaces the mobility.
    Then having a raptar or radius on there is not an issue .. though I rarely need it since even still, most of my shots are under 300yds. The yotes come in and sit down right in amongst the cows. And that's where I shoot them. Fortunately these adult females are totally used to me ... and my shooting at night ... and they don't even get up. They know that's just "daddy" making his noise. And the calves take the lead from the moms ... and don't get too ruffled.
    But unfortunately, despite my best efforts, the cows will not spend every calving night in the alfalfa patch and that's where "walkin and stalk" still comes into play as I have to go out and find them and camp out there as needed. Fortunately I know where their other spot is to within a 200yd radius ...
    Things are about to get more complicated as we grow the herd. Then we'll have two groups of adult females one group (of 21) calving in the winter (the current group) and the second group (of 21) who will be the summer calving group. I also want them in the alfalfa patch if possible, so easy to keep an eye on them ... roughly a 500x250 yd patch ... but mostly surrounded by woods and creeks. Though right adjacent to our stick building (where we sleep). Fortunately, the yotes are way less active at night in the summer. But I go out 2-3 times a night anyway for the chickens.
    We're actually considering getting some donkey's, probably 2 Jenny's to help ward off the yotes .. but even if we decide to do that .. it will be a couple of years before they're old enough to perform the "guard donkey" function. And I will still want to back them up.
    I'm 90% sure we lost one calf last year to yotes ... which means I failed ... but that just means I'm tripling down this year. There were two bones (a jaw and a thigh) in the middle of the pasture ... and they were of the correct shape and size to match a calf. And we were 2 calves short from our adult females who had all been pregnant in the preg check. I'll chaulk one up to a mis-carriage. But I'm blaming myself for the other one. So there will likely be more walkin and stalkin this year. To cover the nights they are not in the alfalfa patch better. Also we have new land and I could put them over there where there is a 20ft tower I could get up in to help overwatch. Its covered and has firing ports on all 4 sides ... so will consider using that.

    Anyway, long winded point is that the right gear for the job depends on the job ... and my solo critter control activities both Walkin&Stalkin as well as overwatch ... have slightly different goals ... and hence practices ... than the activities of others ... and that is totally fine in my book.
    :)


    ==
    Edit #1
    Walkin and Stalkin gear ...
    48500476276_c71d780efd_k.jpg


    ==
    Edit#2 Overwatch Gear ...

    33712641168_98f94c54fd_k.jpg

    46839682544_99d237a95a_k.jpg


    SIMRAD works GREAT in the snow ... :)
    In the lower pic, first night with the new berger 155gr (for .308 rifle) .. due to long COAL had to single feed the rounds ... got a double that night ... luck !! :D (smooth is fast)
     
    Last edited:
    Has anyone used the unrestricted model? How is the Illumination on that?

    From my understanding they are as rare as hen's teeth.

    I have a few full power PEQ15 and 2A, and if the illuminator from those was in this unit it would be 100x more useful. It's great having a weapon mounted LRF until you can't fucking see your target at night and you need a secondary IR illumination method. Kind of defeats the entire purpose.

    Either cut the price and cut out the bullshit useless features, or put shit in there that works and adds a benefit. Putting a dogshit tier illuminator in it just to say it has an illuminator puts you in the 'get punched in the dick' category.

    They reinvented the wheel and put useless shit on it instead of making a PEQ15 with a rangefinder and LED screen.

    And all of the manufacturers need to have a fucking picnic with all of the ballistic app people and standardize a way that the information can be sent to the ballistics app. This proprietary shit where nothing talks to anything else, or AB's plethora of shit that doesn't work together unless you hook up an R2D2 level of wiring connections that make the Apple Dongle look competant need to die in a fire.
     
    Last edited:
    What height Sphur Adaptar are you guys running for the RAPTAR on a Sphur mount? The A-0029? I know there are a few different heights. What about the new low profile version? A-0019D?
     
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    neffect - mostly depends on the height of your turrets. im using a lower one on single turn 5-20 US and higher on a 3-27 turret. you may toss out what scope yu have
    Objective size as well. I have the 0029 on everything from a 4-27razor and 4-16x42 atacr. Even on the atacr I don't believe I could go much shorter.
     
    Just curious, and maybe I missed it but what app is used to transfer the Ballistics to the Raptar? I know the AB Tactical app does so, But curious if there is another.
     
    Just curious, and maybe I missed it but what app is used to transfer the Ballistics to the Raptar? I know the AB Tactical app does so, But curious if there is another.

    There isn't, which is the huge downside to this unit. There is a second unit they make that is several thousand more that has the AB Ballistics software on it and I believe links via bluetooth.
     
    Ohhhh, sorry I misread. I thought this was RE the S-ES, I have just ordered one and was curious.
     
    No offense to the huskey!!!

    ==
    I don't really "hunt" much technically. What I do is "critter control". That means a few things. One is, I'm not trying to eradicate any body. The yotes and coons and opossum are in the business of managing critters I'm not interested in being in the business of managing. So if they are not near the critters I'm protecting I leave them alone. My primary purpose out there at night (besides having fun and getting some exercise .. both physical and mental) is defending the chickens and the calves. I do this via two methods:
    01 - Walking and Stalking ... a.k.a. "patrol style" ...
    02 - Setting up in a likely spot and waiting for them to come ... a.k.a. "overwatch"
    And these have evolved a bit.
    I used to only do 01 .. .and I had thermal scopes on my carbines. But in 'walkin and stalkin" mobility is king ... now I use lasers only off the carbines (all 5.56 with 10 or 14 inch barrels) ... the thermals are all now on my head. At least a coti/14 on one eye .. .and often a skeet (or patrol) on the other eye. In lightest config ... just the coti/14 and night cap and 7 lb 9 oz carbine with laser. These light setups are great for crossing creeks, going up and down the banks ... and crossing fences .. and moving thru the woods and up and down the hills.
    But I actually do 02 more than 01 now ... 'cause I've got things arranged so the cows are almost always calving in the alfalfa patch where I can setup and watch over them. With a rifle on a tripod and a thermal clipon. Then distance shooting capability replaces the mobility.
    Then having a raptar or radius on there is not an issue .. though I rarely need it since even still, most of my shots are under 300yds. The yotes come in and sit down right in amongst the cows. And that's where I shoot them. Fortunately these adult females are totally used to me ... and my shooting at night ... and they don't even get up. They know that's just "daddy" making his noise. And the calves take the lead from the moms ... and don't get too ruffled.
    But unfortunately, despite my best efforts, the cows will not spend every calving night in the alfalfa patch and that's where "walkin and stalk" still comes into play as I have to go out and find them and camp out there as needed. Fortunately I know where their other spot is to within a 200yd radius ...
    Things are about to get more complicated as we grow the herd. Then we'll have two groups of adult females one group (of 21) calving in the winter (the current group) and the second group (of 21) who will be the summer calving group. I also want them in the alfalfa patch if possible, so easy to keep an eye on them ... roughly a 500x250 yd patch ... but mostly surrounded by woods and creeks. Though right adjacent to our stick building (where we sleep). Fortunately, the yotes are way less active at night in the summer. But I go out 2-3 times a night anyway for the chickens.
    We're actually considering getting some donkey's, probably 2 Jenny's to help ward off the yotes .. but even if we decide to do that .. it will be a couple of years before they're old enough to perform the "guard donkey" function. And I will still want to back them up.
    I'm 90% sure we lost one calf last year to yotes ... which means I failed ... but that just means I'm tripling down this year. There were two bones (a jaw and a thigh) in the middle of the pasture ... and they were of the correct shape and size to match a calf. And we were 2 calves short from our adult females who had all been pregnant in the preg check. I'll chaulk one up to a mis-carriage. But I'm blaming myself for the other one. So there will likely be more walkin and stalkin this year. To cover the nights they are not in the alfalfa patch better. Also we have new land and I could put them over there where there is a 20ft tower I could get up in to help overwatch. Its covered and has firing ports on all 4 sides ... so will consider using that.

    Anyway, long winded point is that the right gear for the job depends on the job ... and my solo critter control activities both Walkin&Stalkin as well as overwatch ... have slightly different goals ... and hence practices ... than the activities of others ... and that is totally fine in my book.
    :)


    ==
    Edit #1
    Walkin and Stalkin gear ...
    48500476276_c71d780efd_k.jpg


    ==
    Edit#2 Overwatch Gear ...

    33712641168_98f94c54fd_k.jpg

    46839682544_99d237a95a_k.jpg


    SIMRAD works GREAT in the snow ... :)
    In the lower pic, first night with the new berger 155gr (for .308 rifle) .. due to long COAL had to single feed the rounds ... got a double that night ... luck !! :D (smooth is fast)
    so how far have you reached with the UTC?
     
    "reached" ?? Well like with most thermals, I can see the MOON, so that's 239,000 miles ;)

    As far as "shoot" ... 12 inch steel at 900yds is as far as I've tried. If you can do it in the day, it's only a little harder at night (due to less clues regarding the wind.
     
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