National Vietnam Veterans Day

[Mcrider55]

To those of us old enough to remember those dark days of watching Vietnam in color on the nightly news with Walter Cronkite or Huntley/Brinkley, they were sobering moments. It was the first war brought into America's living rooms. Many of us know those who served, those who died, or were injured.

As a veteran of the Vietnam era and having served with Nam vets, I know how America turned their back on us. We were treated far better overseas than here in America.

Never forget those who served America at a time America turned away from those who served.

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[Ronws]

To those of us old enough to remember those dark days of watching Vietnam in color on the nightly news with Walter Cronkite or Huntley/Brinkley, they were sobering moments. It was the first war brought into America's living rooms. Many of us know those who served, those who died, or were injured.

As a veteran of the Vietnam era and having served with Nam vets, I know how America turned their back on us. We were treated far better overseas than here in America.

Never forget those who served America at a time America turned away from those who served.

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www.vfw.org

My first step-father was a second class boiler tech (hoping to eventually make chief petty officer) and he served a deployment in support of Vietnam. Then, after that, remained stateside and stationed aboard the USS Ogden.

Another dear friend of mine had 3 tours of combat there.

God bless the men who went there. Our government may suck but we were fighting communism, which is worse.

 

[Baron23]

To those of us old enough to remember those dark days of watching Vietnam in color on the nightly news with Walter Cronkite or Huntley/Brinkley, they were sobering moments. It was the first war brought into America's living rooms. Many of us know those who served, those who died, or were injured.

As a veteran of the Vietnam era and having served with Nam vets, I know how America turned their back on us. We were treated far better overseas than here in America.

Never forget those who served America at a time America turned away from those who served.

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www.vfw.org

Yeah. And fuck those assholes who were spitting on us but now parrot “thank you for your service” like they were saying @have a nice day”. I’ve not forgotten or forgiven them.

 

[Ronws]

This was an excellent book to read.

"The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Vietnam War."



My friend, Lee, who had served over there was quite the patriot. He said, "I would have done it for free but they kept paying me." He came back with some metal.

A surgical pin in each ankle, a pin in his right hip, and a teflon-coated stainless steel kneecap on his left knee. Being superman is a young man's game.

 

[PatMiles]

 

[Mcrider55]

Yeah. And fuck those assholes who were spitting on us but now parrot “thank you for your service” like they were saying @have a nice day”. I’ve not forgotten or forgiven them.

I remember we had to travel to duty stations in our uniforms and having to pass thru that fucking zoo called LAX. Confrontations we're not unheard of between military and the freaks.

 

[Baron23]

I remember we had to travel to duty stations in our uniforms and having to pass thru that fucking zoo called LAX. Confrontations we're not unheard of between military and the freaks.

Absolutely. I was USAF and we had to travel on orders in Class A uniform (coat and tie) if I remember correctly. And yeah, it was like wearing a bullseye.

Best of luck to you, mate.

 

[wade2big]

To those of us old enough to remember those dark days of watching Vietnam in color on the nightly news with Walter Cronkite or Huntley/Brinkley, they were sobering moments. It was the first war brought into America's living rooms. Many of us know those who served, those who died, or were injured.

As a veteran of the Vietnam era and having served with Nam vets, I know how America turned their back on us. We were treated far better overseas than here in America.

Never forget those who served America at a time America turned away from those who served.

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www.vfw.org

How specifically was America served during that time? What was the benefit to the America people that their sons, brothers, fathers, cousins, and uncles had to be sent to fight and die overseas, many against their will? Who was better off after this war? Lives were ended. Families torn apart and for what? Let’s be honest and try and think beyond the military indoctrination that uncle sam relies on to keep recruitment numbers up.

I respect the experiences that soldiers and their families had, but I’ll never acknowledge that anything was done on behalf of the American people. I do think it was cowardly that men didn’t rebel against a tyrannical self serving gov’t that threatened them with imprisonment or death if they didn’t kneel before their political masters and carry a rifle half way around the world. If a man won’t fight for his family then what kind of man is he really? I would rather die fighting the badged statists at home who think they own me or my sons before I’d ever take part in gov’ts bullshit agenda. I hope the future generations will hold strong unlike every past generations that failed to do so.

 

[Mcrider55]

How specifically was America served during that time? What was the benefit to the America people that their sons, brothers, fathers, cousins, and uncles had to be sent to fight and die overseas, many against their will? Who was better off after this war? Lives were ended. Families torn apart and for what? Let’s be honest and try and think beyond the military indoctrination that uncle sam relies on to keep recruitment numbers up.

I respect the experiences that soldiers and their families had, but I’ll never acknowledge that anything was done on behalf of the American people. I do think it was cowardly that men didn’t rebel against a tyrannical self serving gov’t that threatened them with imprisonment or death if they didn’t kneel before their political masters and carry a rifle half way around the world. If a man won’t fight for his family then what kind of man is he really? I would rather die fighting the badged statists at home who think they own me or my sons before I’d ever take part in gov’ts bullshit agenda. I hope the future generations will hold strong unlike every past generations that failed to do so.

It's pretty clear you weren't around at the time.

 

[wade2big]

It's pretty clear you weren't around at the time.

Feel free to answer my questions and argue against my perspective honestly using reason and not emotion.

 

[Ronws]

A nation that refuses to defend itself will perish.

"Come back with your shield or on it."

And a bit of irony. @wade2big has the description of two star general while calling into question our military actions.

 

[wade2big]

A nation that refuses to defend itself will perish.

"Come back with your shield or on it."

And a bit of irony. @wade2big has the description of two star general while calling into question our military actions.

The first part of your post has nothing to do with anything and what you find ironic is just happenstance. I didn’t put that there and don’t care enough to change it.

 

[Baron23]

How specifically was America served during that time? What was the benefit to the America people that their sons, brothers, fathers, cousins, and uncles had to be sent to fight and die overseas, many against their will? Who was better off after this war? Lives were ended. Families torn apart and for what? Let’s be honest and try and think beyond the military indoctrination that uncle sam relies on to keep recruitment numbers up.

I respect the experiences that soldiers and their families had, but I’ll never acknowledge that anything was done on behalf of the American people. I do think it was cowardly that men didn’t rebel against a tyrannical self serving gov’t that threatened them with imprisonment or death if they didn’t kneel before their political masters and carry a rifle half way around the world. If a man won’t fight for his family then what kind of man is he really? I would rather die fighting the badged statists at home who think they own me or my sons before I’d ever take part in gov’ts bullshit agenda. I hope the future generations will hold strong unlike every past generations that failed to do so.

How predictable and how ignorant.

The issue is not if the VN war was justified and useful to Americans.

The issue is that assholes like you blamed the guy in uniform for policies set by fat old men north of Richmond.

As for your lack of gratitude to those who suffered thru that BS, willingly or drafted (the later being something you most likely know nothing about), that comes as no surprise to me.

 

[wade2big]

How predictable and how ignorant.

The issue is not if the VN war was justified and useful to Americans.

The issue is that assholes like you blamed the guy in uniform for policies set by fat old men north of Richmond.

As for your lack of gratitude to those who suffered thru that BS, willingly or drafted (the later being something you most likely know nothing about), that comes as no surprise to me.

There is no reason for gratitude on my or anyone else’s part. What a silly thing to expect. America’s wars are certainly not engaged on behalf or in defense of the American people. It seems that the ugly truth is of less importance to you than a comforting lie.

Regardless if you believe it or not, I do have sympathy for the people impacted by the criminals that make up what we all know as the US gov’t. What the politicians, military officers, and police did to America’s youth and their families during this time was pure evil.

 

[candyx]

To those of us old enough to remember those dark days of watching Vietnam in color on the nightly news with Walter Cronkite or Huntley/Brinkley, they were sobering moments. It was the first war brought into America's living rooms. Many of us know those who served, those who died, or were injured.

As a veteran of the Vietnam era and having served with Nam vets, I know how America turned their back on us. We were treated far better overseas than here in America.

Never forget those who served America at a time America turned away from those who served.

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www.vfw.org

Only the scum of America turn their backs , the rest of us as always back our Veterans and always will till the end .....

 

[mosin46]

wow. a lot of emotion on this both ways. as being a result of the 1st year of the boom,i remember the era very well. the main take of people back then was more or less-we shouldn't have gone in but we did so should end it fast full court press. have to say that is what time has made me believe. the disaster was exclusively the fault of johnson and mcnamara. the fear of an expanding war was his excuse for dithering around. the chinese had made it very clear that they would not intervene unless their territory was attacked. they pulled out all their support people at some point and became rather hostile to NV. they had the cultural revolution going on as well. a big distraction that was. the russia took over supporting NV as a result to fuck with us. no real danger of them going to war over it. maybe mining hiaphong and flattening all of hanoi would have caused some issues but they weren't going to war over that. they were still all wrapped up in europe. johnson could have closed sihanoukville's supply use. cambodia wasn't going to invade the US. the war started big time after gulf of tonkin incident and that is very open to questions of legitimacy.
he also did not activate the reserves. he should have. would have ruined my decade. but,fighting that war with draftees almost all of whom were unwilling caused more political damage than a reserve call up IMHO. elites getting out of the draft was a big source of political strife,still is. johnson also worried about his grand socialist experiment "the great society" and its relation to the war. we had NO national interest at stake but the domino theory was considered truth and was a reasonable but very incorrect thought back then. remember truman,eisenhower and kennedy all supported the war. i will say that fighting a war that you have to force people to join is on pretty shaky ethical grounds. however,it has been said that we could not fight ww2 like we did without the draft.
kennedy's plans for it are unclear and it's role in his murder is open to discussion.
odd that NV is a trading partner and kinda ally where no. korea hates us and tries to fuck with us when they can. we killed a whole bunch more vietnamese than we did koreans.

 

[Mcrider55]

Feel free to answer my questions and argue against my perspective honestly using reason and not emotion.

It's clear you have Zero knowledge of what took place at the time in America or the feelings of the people.

You have no perspective that applies. You ever heard of the draft? I bet you have zero idea of how it worked, was applied, or the consequences of not serving if your number was called.

People with your attitude were blowing up colleges and fleeing to Canada, leaving your family to face the disgrace that was yours.

Don't try to talk about subjects you know nothing about.

 

[EddieNFL]

Yeah. And fuck those assholes who were spitting on us but now parrot “thank you for your service” like they were saying @have a nice day”. I’ve not forgotten or forgiven them.

Friends older brother was a marine. We idolized him. Was in RVN during Tet. Traveling home he passed through SF. While at the airport some hippy chick and her boyfriend approached him with the usual babykiller BS. She spit on him so he knocked her BF out.

People witnessing this grabbed him and led him away. Others kept the hippies where they were at. He was taken to a lounge for "elite" travelers and escorted to his gate at the final call. Not everyone hated those who served.

I'm sure if it happened today he would be sent to Gitmo.

 

[Sandhog308]

If I hadn’t seen this thread , I never would’ve known it had been National Vietnam Vets Day.
I never wanted nor need anyone to recognize that I spent time there. I don like for anyone to say “thank you for your service , especially other Vets. I had watched the war reported on TV and read about the worst years over there , knew it was a cluster fuck from the jump. I was also a 18 yr old Son of the South , totally naive as what was right or wrong then. I had a low draft number , didn’t want to be a Soldier or Marine , so I became a Sailor. The 4 yrs I served defined who I am today.
Maybe I should have gone to Canada or faked an illness like many others did , but that never entered my mind. In hindsight I’m glad I was there , i met people …shipmates there that friendships I cherish to this day. I also lost friends there that I think about EVERY day since then.
I read what @wade2big posts , I agree with some of his observations but not all. If I was him I would seriously look for another country to live in. As fucked up as things have become , the US is still the only place I’d live by far.
And remember that many of the veterans from Vietnam haven’t forgotten the skills they learned over there. When the shit hits the fan they might be the ones that save your ass. You don’t need to thank them , just don’t disrespect them

 

[supercorndogs]

wow. a lot of emotion on this both ways. as being a result of the 1st year of the boom,i remember the era very well. the main take of people back then was more or less-we shouldn't have gone in but we did so should end it fast full court press. have to say that is what time has made me believe. the disaster was exclusively the fault of johnson and mcnamara. the fear of an expanding war was his excuse for dithering around. the chinese had made it very clear that they would not intervene unless their territory was attacked. they pulled out all their support people at some point and became rather hostile to NV. they had the cultural revolution going on as well. a big distraction that was. the russia took over supporting NV as a result to fuck with us. no real danger of them going to war over it. maybe mining hiaphong and flattening all of hanoi would have caused some issues but they weren't going to war over that. they were still all wrapped up in europe. johnson could have closed sihanoukville's supply use. cambodia wasn't going to invade the US. the war started big time after gulf of tonkin incident and that is very open to questions of legitimacy.
he also did not activate the reserves. he should have. would have ruined my decade. but,fighting that war with draftees almost all of whom were unwilling caused more political damage than a reserve call up IMHO. elites getting out of the draft was a big source of political strife,still is. johnson also worried about his grand socialist experiment "the great society" and its relation to the war. we had NO national interest at stake but the domino theory was considered truth and was a reasonable but very incorrect thought back then. remember truman,eisenhower and kennedy all supported the war. i will say that fighting a war that you have to force people to join is on pretty shaky ethical grounds. however,it has been said that we could not fight ww2 like we did without the draft.
kennedy's plans for it are unclear and it's role in his murder is open to discussion.
odd that NV is a trading partner and kinda ally where no. korea hates us and tries to fuck with us when they can. we killed a whole bunch more vietnamese than we did koreans.

The ugly truth was the same as Afghanistan. We were there mucking about, intentionally taking our time, so political elites could launder money back to them selves. Same thing they are doing with Ukraine.

When the propaganda monkeys start spreading this kind of propaganda. Historically it means young Americans are about to start getting sent somewhere to "fight for our freedom."

 

[wade2big]

It's clear you have Zero knowledge of what took place at the time in America or the feelings of the people.

You have no perspective that applies. You ever heard of the draft? I bet you have zero idea of how it worked, was applied, or the consequences of not serving if your number was called.

People with your attitude were blowing up colleges and fleeing to Canada, leaving your family to face the disgrace that was yours.

Don't try to talk about subjects you know nothing about.

You are being dishonest or you would simply answer my questions and then argue why my perspective is wrong instead of saying my views don’t apply and then liking me to a terrorist. Politicians and their police are the ones who forced men into military “service” by threatening them and their families lives. There is your terror state and you “served” in it’s agenda.

I acknowledged the draft in every post I made. I acknowledged how it’s evil as well and clearly noted that I was/am sympathetic to the families affected as they were victims of the worst form of tyranny. I also acknowledged that concerning the draft, the disgrace isn’t on those that had sense enough to work around it but on the men that handed their loved ones over to gov’t without a fight as nothing is worth fighting for more than ones family. To me this is were the cowardice and shame lies. I would lose the battle, but I would never be this selfish towards my family. Ever.

I can respect the experiences of the men that fought side by side protecting one another but I also despise the gov’t that held guns to many of these young men’s heads when giving them the option of prison or death at home or take your chances half way across the world to fight some politician’s war for profit. I stand there.


The honor you guys believe to be real is amongst yourselves as a result of your shared experiences fighting for one another. I would never want to take that away and couldn’t if I did. You guys just need to understand that’s where it ends. Those outside of gov’t that believe fighting in banker and politician wars for profit is “serving” one’s country are victims of gov’t propaganda. People that thank a soldier for his service do it because of their indoctrination as this psy-ops is what keeps young men signing over their personal sovereignty to a corrupt gov’t. There is no honor in that and I’ll take no part in spreading gov’t lies.

 

[Mcrider55]

You are being dishonest or you would simply answer my questions and then argue why my perspective is wrong instead of saying my views don’t apply and then liking me to a terrorist. Politicians and their police are the ones who forced men into military “service” by threatening them and their families lives. There is your terror state and you “served” in it’s agenda.

I acknowledged the draft in every post I made. I acknowledged how it’s evil as well and clearly noted that I was/am sympathetic to the families affected as they were victims of the worst form of tyranny. I also acknowledged that concerning the draft, the disgrace isn’t on those that had sense enough to work around it but on the men that handed their loved ones over to gov’t without a fight as nothing is worth fighting for more than ones family. To me this is were the cowardice and shame lies. I would lose the battle, but I would never be this selfish towards my family. Ever.

I can respect the experiences of the men that fought side by side protecting one another but I also despise the gov’t that held guns to many of these young men’s heads when giving them the option of prison or death at home or take your chances half way across the world to fight some politician’s war for profit. I stand there.


The honor you guys believe to be real is amongst yourselves as a result of your shared experiences fighting for one another. I would never want to take that away and couldn’t if I did. You guys just need to understand that’s where it ends. Those outside of gov’t that believe fighting in banker and politician wars for profit is “serving” one’s country are victims of gov’t propaganda. People that thank a soldier for his service do it because of their indoctrination as this psy-ops is what keeps young men signing over their personal sovereignty to a corrupt gov’t. There is no honor in that and I’ll take no part in spreading gov’t lies.

No dishonesty on my part what so ever. You weren't there, so you have ZERO idea of what was happening. You pull the same leftist bullshit we see today, applying your own set of "morality" of today to a time you were never a part of. That was the world we lived in at that time.

We answered then, and many do today, a call was issued, and we did so knowing what the consequences could be. You didn't serve, so you are on the outside looking in, yet making judgements.

You and I will never agree on this.

 

[wade2big]

No dishonesty on my part what so ever. You weren't there, so you have ZERO idea of what was happening. You pull the same leftist bullshit we see today, applying your own set of "morality" of today to a time you were never a part of. That was the world we lived in at that time.

We answered then, and many do today, a call was issued, and we did so knowing what the consequences could be. You didn't serve, so you are on the outside looking in, yet making judgements.

You and I will never agree on this.

What I see in you is cowardice.

I never served and never would. I value my individualism and would never sign it over to the state where I could face consequences for not accepting their indoctrination. I would never take any other gov’t job either. Just the thought alone disgusts me. I feel like I need to shower now.

We can disagree and that’s fine. I would like to add that I am not a leftist in any sense of the word. It’s strange to me how you keep making that assumption simply because I don’t share your centrist neoconservative views and values. I don’t know where I fit on the political spectrum and don’t care as there are many interpretations, but I’m as far right on many of them as it gets it seems. One thing for certain is that I will never value gov’t or those that willingly take part in it’s agenda. There is nothing moral or honorable about it.

 

[n2ishun]

You are being dishonest or you would simply answer my questions and then argue why my perspective is wrong instead of saying my views don’t apply and then liking me to a terrorist.

I stopped there.
That line makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

If someone doesn't answer you they are dishonest ?
If someone doesn't argue with you they are at fault somehow ?

Holy shit.... " Logic, get out that fucking door and stay there ! ".

 

[Mcrider55]

I never served and never would. I value my individualism and would never sign it over to the state where I could face consequences for not accepting their indoctrination. I would never take any other gov’t job either. Just the thought alone disgusts me. I feel like I need to shower now.

One thing for certain is that I will never value gov’t or those that willingly take part in it’s agenda. There is nothing moral or honorable about it.

Yet you value the freedom you have and did nothing for it.

Others step up when you choose to hide .

BTW, I'm not a "neo con"

I am a Constitutional Conservative.

 

[wade2big]

I stopped there.
That line makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

If someone doesn't answer you they are dishonest ?
If someone doesn't argue with you they are at fault somehow ?

Holy shit.... " Logic, get out that fucking door and stay there ! ".

In the context you just assumed you would be correct and I would agree. There has been a back and forth already that you seemed to have missed my man. I not only stated my perspective but also explained it. The fellow responding to me has done no such thing but only tried to dismiss it as irrelevant and likened me to a terrorist. Hell I’de much rather he ignored me or defended his position. Of course he doesn’t have to do either and didn’t. Maybe you can understand why I said what I did or maybe not.

 

[wade2big]

Yet you value the freedom you have and did nothing for it.

Others step up when you choose to hide .

BTW, I'm not a "neo con"

I am a Constitutional Conservative.

You continually repeat the propaganda without thought. I’ll ask again and maybe you will partake in a real conversation.

How did America’s involvement in Vietnam’s civil war and the resulting lost lives of America’s young men, the broken families, and the children and grandchildren that never were, benefit America or American’s and how did any of what happen preserve anyone’s freedoms at home? To fight for freedom at that time, you would have had to fight against the men at home that were forcing America’s youth at gunpoint into a warzone across the world. Had this happened then you would have the backing to make that claim.

Even if I were to disagree with your response, I would at least respect a man that can defend his position. You may even convince me.

 

[Mcrider55]

You continually repeat the propaganda without thought. I’ll ask again and maybe you will partake in a real conversation.

How did America’s involvement in Vietnam’s civil war and the resulting lost lives of America’s young men, the broken families, and the children and grandchildren that never were, benefit America or American’s and how did any of what happen preserve anyone’s freedoms at home? Even if I were to disagree with your response, I would at least respect a man that can defend his position. You may even convince me.

I'm not here to "debate" you on foreign policy. You are set on your very narrow viewpoint and not even remotely interested in, nor knowledgeable about the moments that took place long before you were born.

You enjoy the freedoms million of us who did serve, give to you.

Enjoy them.

They cost you nothing.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

You weren't there, so you have ZERO idea of what was happening.

Nor did the bulk that,... were,... involved.

It's interesting how facts get twisted, DDI nor JFK wanted that war. Ike was too strong to be pushed around by the up & coming MIC. JFK died for his beliefs & ambitions. LBJ put the war on steroids for one reason only, and like always following the money sheds the light of truth.

There were 3 prefixes up & running during that cluster fuck, RA, NG, & lastly US. RA's were there because either they liked it or a judge suggested a life change. NG's thought by entering the national guard it would save them from going, and to a point it did many of them. The last group, US, were the ones who got forcibly fucked by their gov to enter a war that was about nothing other than money & to show the Russians we would bleed out to stop them & China anyway we thought would work.

 

[wade2big]

I'm not here to "debate" you on foreign policy. You are set on your very narrow viewpoint and not even remotely interested in, nor knowledgeable about the moments that took place long before you were born.

You enjoy the freedoms million of us who did serve, give to you.

Enjoy them.

They cost you nothing.

Your and my definition of freedom are far apart. No wonder we will continually disagree.

Young men were pulled from their homes at gunpoint to serve in Americas wars and this somehow defines freedom in your eyes. Defending freedom doesn’t happen in a banker war over seas. Defending freedom would be standing up against gov’t tyranny at home and this is something that no military man has claimed to do. Threats against one’s freedom is a domestic issue and not foreign policy as you just mentioned. Who defended freedom during the covid tyranny? It wasn’t any fucking gov’t employee. They took part in the tyranny. Let’s stop lying to ourselves a out the job of a soldier.

 

[Mcrider55]

Your and my definition of freedom are far apart. No wonder we will continually disagree.

Young men were pulled from their homes at gunpoint to serve in Americas wars and this somehow defines freedom in your eyes. Defending freedom doesn’t happen in a banker war over seas. Defending freedom would be standing up against gov’t tyranny at home and this is something that no military man has claimed to do. Threats against one’s freedom is a domestic issue and not foreign policy as you just mentioned. Who defended freedom during the covid tyranny? It wasn’t any fucking gov’t employee. They took part in the tyranny. Let’s stop lying to ourselves a out the job of a soldier.

The left wing drama just flows from you. NOBODY was "pulled from their homes at gunpoint".

As I said, you don't have the depth of knowledge to discuss this issue, you just recited propaganda.

BTW, how old are you? We were ATTACKED on 9/11.

yet you didn't step up.

You have a nice day kid.

 

[Ronws]

The first part of your post has nothing to do with anything and what you find ironic is just happenstance. I didn’t put that there and don’t care enough to change it.

I beg to differ. It just doesn't fit your "narrative."

 

[Sandhog308]

Sorry to see this thread got people so riled up , kinda like how Viet Nam did in a nutshell. Still debated to this day.
Different time and mindset then . Didn’t take but a minute to find another war that’s still going on , foreign and domestic.
Trying to think of ANYwhere else on Earth that’s better than here , liked to hear where.

Whats next …. In Country or Blue Water Navy ??

 

[Buzzinga]

Dad spent 13 months in Vietnam as an enlisted soldier, he was there 68-69, including the Tet Offensive. I believe he was scheduled to go home after 12 months, but volunteered to stay longer for a reason I've never heard, I think someone got hurt maybe, not sure. He contracted hepatitis at the end, I think it was from working on one of his friends, "up to elbows in blood" was the line I remember hearing years ago.

One of only about three stories he told me was, just a single line, but he said it with a heartfelt smile, something unusual for him. "I delivered a baby when I was over there." That was all, no more details, but the positive emotion of his face told me a lot more than he was willing to speak.

When watching 13 hours, he said that movie was the most accurate depiction of what he experienced, despite being different wars.

There were a couple other things he shared in confidence between father and son, but one my favorite story of his happened in San Francisco when he flew home. In full uniform (I believe) a dirty hippie came up to him, called him a nasty name and spit on him.

He responded exactly as he should. By punching the dirty hippie in the face, shattering his nose, and causing a bloody mess of that POS.

Despite being in constant pain all over his body, he never complained, worked two jobs when we were children, loved his wife and children and lived to serve his community. Everyone loved and respected him. He had a strength not found very often anymore.





On an aside note, his father spent 4 years fighting in the south pacific and my other grandfather spent four years fighting Nazi's in Europe along with my Godfather who was a POW for many years. God Bless you all.



To those who don't get it, there are no words that can make you understand, YOU'VE SACRIFICED NOTHING and benefited everything. You live in a free country because there are Americans willing to do what you aren't. You then figuratively spit in their face for providing you freedom in a manner you disagree with. I think you can infer what we think of those people.

THANK YOU Veterans! Everything good in this world I have is because honest, brave Americans were willing to lay down their lives for a belief that this country is worth it.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I believe he was scheduled to go home after 12 months, but volunteered to stay longer for a reason I've never heard, I think someone got hurt maybe, not sure.

The main reason most stayed longer, was simple. They did not trust the FNG's to protect those they would leave behind. Even at that, once you rotated back you still felt guilty about leaving for the same reason, almost like you ran out. It took about 3-4 months to get the new guys up to speed, by then you had a lot invested in those that were worth a shit. Like any teacher when you part with your students emotions can cloud ones logic train to the point you'll endanger and suffer more yourself, for the betterment of your charges.

 

[Sandhog308]

Good words , glad your Dad shared his experiences with you. My Dad was a WWll Vet, a Captain in the Army in Europe. Died in a car wreck when I was 2. Never head his stories My Uncle was a Navy Pharmacist Mate aka Corpsman attached to the Marines in the Pacific , in the Shit. He shared stories with me , could tell lots of demons were kept in check. He was my Dad by proxy, he was alright with my joining the Navy , told me to not take any shit and go see the world. And ALWAYS watch my 6. He lasted a nanosecond watching Private Ryan. Figured he would.
Had 2 locals that joined the Navy that I thought a lot of that went to Nam. Both told me to go to college and get a deferment , stay away from Vietnam period.
Didn’t listen !
I pay tribute to RM3 Boyce every time I post.
Other was named Jimmy Joe , HM3 with 1st Marines , he received the Bronze Star for Valor & Purple Heart. He got back to The World , was throwing a party at his farm , took a girl on a VW dune buggy ride at night and HIT a fucking Black Angus Bull broadsides, RIP instantly , she never recovered , died later.

 

[BAMAboy18]

Having been born in 1964, I was playing with GI Joes at that time, as I idealized my stepfather; US Army First Sergeant Nigel Hartzog. He was there serving as an artillery drill sergeant. He came home with a bronze star and a purple heart! I miss him, he was a good man.

 

[BAMAboy18]

Having been born in 1964, I was playing with GI Joes at that time, as I idealized my stepfather; US Army First Sergeant Nigel Hartzog. He was there serving as an artillery drill sergeant. He came home with a bronze star and a purple heart! I miss him, he was a good man.

Besides getting to go to the range with him and actually firing cannons as a kid, my . most vivid memory was him doing a 21 gun salute over Pearl harbor in 1976! Somewhere I have pictures of them in their dress uniforms with chrome helmets.
Of course I can't find actual footage of that day, but;

 

[wade2big]

The left wing drama just flows from you. NOBODY was "pulled from their homes at gunpoint".

I was correct about your dishonesty. This is a blatant lie, both parts, or you aren’t very smart. I’m still trying to determine which applies. You even acknowledged earlier in one of your earlier gov’t propaganda posts that there were consequences for disregarding the draft. Your words:

You ever heard of the draft? I bet you have zero idea of how it worked, was applied, or the consequences of not serving if your number was called.

What consequences were you speaking of exactly? Was it statists coming to make arrests for non compliance? If that arrest is resisted by a man that values real freedom and not your false dichotomy, can violence up to including death on top of the aggravated kidnapping by applied by badged men on behalf of the state? This doesn’t sound like freedom to me. Gov’t and freedom are mortal enemies. Nobody receiving a taxpayer stolen paycheck is on the side of freedom.

I’m assuming you aren’t capable of defending your position once again.

 

[Ronws]

I was correct about your dishonesty. This is a blatant lie, both parts, or you aren’t very smart. I’m still trying to determine which applies. You even acknowledged earlier in one of your earlier gov’t propaganda posts that there were consequences for disregarding the draft. Your words:

What consequences were you speaking of exactly? Was it statists coming to make arrests for non compliance? If that arrest is resisted by a man that values real freedom and not your false dichotomy, can violence up to including death on top of the aggravated kidnapping by applied by badged men on behalf of the state? This doesn’t sound like freedom to me. Gov’t and freedom are mortal enemies. Nobody receiving a taxpayer stolen paycheck is on the side of freedom.

I’m assuming you aren’t capable of defending your position once again.

 

[LRRPF52]

Feel free to answer my questions and argue against my perspective honestly using reason and not emotion.

I think the intent of the thread is to recognize the Vietnam veterans for their sacrifices, not to debate the decisions by politicians.

When you insert that argument into the topic, it distracts from what it was meant for.

 

[Sandhog308]

I think the intent of the thread is to recognize the Vietnam veterans for their sacrifices, not to debate the decisions by politicians.

When you insert that argument into the topic, it distracts from what it was meant for.

Thank you !!

 

[wade2big]

I think the intent of the thread is to recognize the Vietnam veterans for their sacrifices, not to debate the decisions by politicians.

When you insert that argument into the topic, it distracts from what it was meant for.

I understand what you are saying but read the OP’s opening post again. Had he stopped after his first paragraph I would have agreed with you and left it at that. His next two paragraphs opened it up to debate. He took it further than what you just asserted.

 

[LRRPF52]

I understand what you are saying but read the OP’s opening post again. Had he stopped after his first paragraph I would have agreed with you and left it at that. His next two paragraphs opened it up to debate. He took it further than what you just asserted.

I’m not seeing 2 paragraphs after the first in the OP. Only 2 sentences that express how America turned its back on them, which is a matter of historical record.

Before getting into rhetoric, most of these amateur arguments could be solved by getting educated in grammar and logic first. If your grammar and logic are not sound, you are not ready for rhetoric.

In this case, we’re talking about some really basic disciplines in knowing the different between a sentence and a paragraph. Forgive me for not being able to take whatever you say after that seriously.

I don’t blame you, since this is what public school has created: A nation of people who can’t even use their own language who also have to solve a mountain of problems.

 

[wade2big]

I’m not seeing 2 paragraphs after the first in the OP. Only 2 sentences that express how America turned its back on them, which is a matter of historical record.

Before getting into rhetoric, most of these amateur arguments could be solved by getting educated in grammar and logic first. If your grammar and logic are not sound, you are not ready for rhetoric.

In this case, we’re talking about some really basic disciplines in knowing the different between a sentence and a paragraph. Forgive me for not being able to take whatever you say after that seriously.

I don’t blame you, since this is what public school has created: A nation of people who can’t even use their own language who also have to solve a mountain of problems.

You are no better than the OP. Distract and deflect instead of defending one’s position. You do a terrible job at it as well. Your grammar and logic tirade should be directed at him considering he is the one that separated the last two sentences into separate paragraphs. I just called it what it is as written. Good grief.

 

[Govt Mule]

You continually repeat the propaganda without thought. I’ll ask again and maybe you will partake in a real conversation.

How did America’s involvement in Vietnam’s civil war and the resulting lost lives of America’s young men, the broken families, and the children and grandchildren that never were, benefit America or American’s and how did any of what happen preserve anyone’s freedoms at home? To fight for freedom at that time, you would have had to fight against the men at home that were forcing America’s youth at gunpoint into a warzone across the world. Had this happened then you would have the backing to make that claim.

Even if I were to disagree with your response, I would at least respect a man that can defend his position. You may even convince me.

My preface to this conversation is as a 18 year old Marine that only was involved in the evacuation and the political/social whirlwind that was happening at that time.

You enjoy the benefits/headaches of living in a country that has corporate business interests all over the world that will lobby politicians to use the strength of our military to protect their interests. You would be better served to give some creedence to the people who have been there to gain perspective. As a 69 year old, I have a much different view than I had at 17 when my parents signed for me to go in.
Cheers

 

[LRRPF52]

You are no better than the OP. Distract and deflect instead of defending one’s position. You do a terrible job at it as well. Your grammar and logic tirade should be directed at him considering he is the one that separated the last two sentences into separate paragraphs. I just called it what it is as written. Good grief.

There should be a basic competency test before you’re allowed to post here. It’s not a personal attack, but just something that would eliminate 90% of the ill-conceived arguments that are allowed to manifest and waste people’s time.

All this effort should have been spent on remembering those who served in the SEA conflict, but here I am having to point out that a sentence isn’t a paragraph. Please take a refresher in English writing. Then take a formal course in the intellectual standards of critical thinking. There are actual standards. My statements are in harmony with them.

 

[LRRPF52]

Back on-track:

 

[LRRPF52]

 

[Mcrider55]

As veterans, those days we served, no matter when or where, had major and very definable impacts on our lives. People of all parts of American life bonded together for a common objective. What we didn't plan on were the bonds to each other. We were prepared to give our lives if necessary to save the lives of others. For many of us, it continues to this day. We learned to depend on others.

People like wade don't get it and never will. When SHTF, I'm glad I won't have people like him around me.

He'll find his arrogance will be his undoing.