neck sizer die....important?

[karb]

I'm going to try my hand at rifle handloads soon (done pistol), and have a ton of .243 once fired through my Win.70
The dies came in for the 243 the other day, and happen to be a redding set with only two dies....no neck sizer. I called the vendor, and he explained I do not need the neck sizer if i'm shooting the same brass through the same rifle....that is to say it's fire formed to the rifle.

Since i'm new to this, and you guys have great experience in all directions on this, I'd like to get your opinion(s) on it.
If I do need the neck sizer, could I get a better explaination as to why?

Thanks guys.... Best forum yet!!

 

[desertHK]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

Neck sizer does less work on the brass and therefore prolongs the life of your brass. While the vendor's statement is true, per se, I only neck size my brass for my bolt guns. Of course, you can always full-length resize each time you shoot, but that's more work and shortens lifespan of the brass. Most die sets don't include the neck sizer and must be purchased separately. Now, if you are shooting through a gas gun, then more than likely you have to FL size your brass each time.

 

[bluegrasspicker]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

If two dies came with your set, they are probably a full-length resizer and a seater die. If so, the full-length resizer reforms the body AND the neck for you.

Neck-sizer dies just reform the neck without reforming the length of the brass.

All I use for my bolt gun are the full-length resizer (Redding Type-S with a bushing about .003" smaller than the measured outside diameter of a loaded round) and the seater die. It works great.

Enjoy,
Bob

 

[308isgreat]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

Sounds like your vendor got his wires crossed. The best way to go if you reuse the same brass in that one rifle is to use the neck sizer. The neck sizer will only size the neck of the case and leaves the rest of the case alone. This is good for accuracy because the case is snug and in line with your bore.

The full length sizer will size the whole case down to smaller dimensions than your chamber. This is not bad but it can reduce your accuracy and will shorten the life of the brass. Full length sizers can be set up to size the case just enough to get back neck tension while causing minimal sizing of the case body.

 

[copper91]

Re: neck sizer die....important?











isgreat]Sounds like your vendor got his wires crossed. The best way to go if you reuse the same brass in that one rifle is to use the neck sizer. The neck sizer will only size the neck of the case and leaves the rest of the case alone. This is good for accuracy because the case is snug and in line with your bore.

The full length sizer will size the whole case down to smaller dimensions than your chamber. This is not bad but it can reduce your accuracy and will shorten the life of the brass. Full length sizers can be set up to size the case just enough to get back neck tension while causing minimal sizing of the case body. [/quote]



+1

 

[Cartman]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

Makes total sense, but doubt I would have thought about it. Just collecting info as I'm just starting my research on reloading. Thanks.

 

[bohem]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

+1 on crossed wires.

I don't have a neck sizer for my 30-30 and I make do without it by running the FL die very short. The 30-30 has the blessing of a long neck (as does the 30-06) and if you are careful you can set the sizer up in a way so that only 75% of the neck gets sized and the body isn't touched.

This allows the bullet and sized portion of the neck to act as a guide into the chamber and throat but the unsized portion of the neck serves as a good centering pilot into the neck area of the chamber.

I saw a decent accuracy gain doing this on a rifle that used to headspace off the rim. I've since nipped a few thou off the chamber and made it space on the shoulder too, but that's another topic of thought. Everything else I have a neck sizer for, and the 30-30 has a solution so I spent the extra 35 bucks on components for it

Point is, you don't HAVE to go buy the neck sizer immediately if you can't afford it right away. The FL can be made to neck size only if you're careful.

 

[Clark]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 on crossed wires.

I don't have a neck sizer for my 30-30 and I make do without it by running the FL die very short. The 30-30 has the blessing of a long neck (as does the 30-06) and if you are careful you can set the sizer up in a way so that only 75% of the neck gets sized and the body isn't touched.

This allows the bullet and sized portion of the neck to act as a guide into the chamber and throat but the unsized portion of the neck serves as a good centering pilot into the neck area of the chamber.

I saw a decent accuracy gain doing this on a rifle that used to headspace off the rim. I've since nipped a few thou off the chamber and made it space on the shoulder too, but that's another topic of thought. Everything else I have a neck sizer for, and the 30-30 has a solution so I spent the extra 35 bucks on components for it

Point is, you don't HAVE to go buy the neck sizer immediately if you can't afford it right away. The FL can be made to neck size only if you're careful.

</div></div>

My 257RAI gets the 3/4 of the neck length FL sizer die treatment, and it sometimes shoots in the .4s, but averages in the .7s.

I have cut a few thousandths of chamber in front of the belt in a 300Win Mag. It still meets SAAMI drawing tolerances, but headspaces on the shoulder when firing new brass or brass FL sized down to the shell holder. That did not make it any more or less accurate. It is still a 1.5" gun. That is a light barrel, and maybe I need to try that with a heavier barrel.

 

[bohem]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have cut a few thousandths of chamber in front of the belt in a 300Win Mag. It still meets SAAMI drawing tolerances, but headspaces on the shoulder when firing new brass or brass FL sized down to the shell holder. That did not make it any more or less accurate. It is still a 1.5" gun. That is a light barrel, and maybe I need to try that with a heavier barrel. </div></div>

I only did it with the 30-30 because I knew it wasn't going to hurt and figured it might help, which it seems to.

I have absolutely no experience with belted mags, so I'm not qualified to offer any opinion of substance. I would THINK that the belt headspace wouldn't matter very much if the chamber it tight overall and you're shooting once fired stuff, but the same idea would hold true for shooting on a rim vs. the shoulder and IME that seems to make a difference.

I'd guess you're probably right that it's the light, flexible barrel doing it. Have you tried working the loads for it for seating depth, charge, etc.?

 

[Randfal]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

Congrats on your intrest in reloading. It's well worth the time. You don't "need" a neck sizing die to do quality reloads. It just makes you loads better. I would recomend you get the three piece Lee Deluxe Rifle dies next time though. Matter of fact, I would dump the standard Redding or RCBS dies and get the Lee dies. I have Redding, RCBS, Bonanza, Forester, Wilson and Hornady dies as well as Lee dies and for the money you will never go wrong with the Lee deluxe set. I won't even buy any of the others anymore unless I need something odd. Then it's always Hornady. Hornady absolutley has the best seating die in it's class (by class, I mean in the $23-50 class.) With Lee you'll get a full length sizer die for new and used brass, a collet neck sizer die for you dedicate to one rifle brass, and a bullet seater die. All for under 30 bucks. Lee's sizer button is also tapered much better than the "green" brands. It requires less force on the press to operate. Check this website out for an unbiased opinion of Lee's Collet neck dies. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">http://www.jamescalhoon.com/collet.php </span></span>When I use my Redding or RCBS dies, I feel like they are stone tools compared to Lee and Hornady. The "Green" companies have great marketing so you see everyone selling them. I wish the same was true for Lee and Hornady. You can usually produce good ammo from any die with careful attention to detail. It's not hard. And If anyone has anything negative to post about Lee dies, please don't, unless you have actually owned and tried them. Some people say, "They must be cheap junk at that price." Most have never tried them.
Lee does have a few things that are Very Cheap, but their dies are as good as any others. Some of Lee's products are targeted at the beginner, which is a good way to try out the hobby. Sorry for the long wind about Lee dies. Back to the question.
Your brass will indeed last longer. Easily 2-3 times in my opinion. With the way brass is being priced lately it's worth the price of a collet die to save you money in the end. You also don't have to lube the brass with the Lee dies. That saves a whole step. You'll also end up with "custom fire formed" brass the matches you chamber. It should improve your group sizes. When I first started reloading, I just used a full length sizer and had great results. Before you buy a bunch of fancy reloading gear, try what you have and see if you like it. You've got to start somewhere. I started with loading for only a few rifles and now I buy different rifles just so I have something different to load. Call me a reloading junky. Good luck and may your bullets fly true!

 

[karb]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm going to source a neck collet die as everyone has pointed out.
Your opinions are appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[hill billy]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

I agree with all of the above except not lubing with the Lee dies. I know their instructions say you don't have to but I've had enough stuck cases in Lee dies that I lube every time.

 

[Rafael]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

You don't need lube on the brass with the Lee Collet die, true, but you do need lube for bottlenecked cases like the 243 with the other Lee dies.
Anyone who thinks the Lee Collet doesn't need "die" lubrication has not been using one very long. This die needs lubrication between the collet and the forcing cone unless you want to ruin the die, or some brass, or both.

You don't need any lube at all for Redding bushing neck dies when you use the TiN coated bushings......and the die won't gall/sieze from lack of lube like the Lee Collet can. I NEVER use lube in my Redding Neck dies, on the case or in the die.

 

[Randfal]

Re: neck sizer die....important?

Ok Ok were blowing the whole Lee Collet Dies thing out of proportion. Common sense needs to be applied here. Without it, a person should not be reloading their own ammunition. The Collet Neck Die does not require any lube on the Brass. And you should lightly lubricate the drive cone inside the die. A light oiling will last a very long time and doesn't require any more maintenance than a standard full length die. You still need to take them all apart and clean them routinely. I agree with Hill Billy, all full length sizing requires you to lube the brass or you will indeed end up with stuck cases. I was refering to the collet neck dies not needing brass lube. My mistake for not being clear.