Neck turning worth it?

[m1a convert]

I have had some problems with large SD's and have moved to weighing each charge on a balance beam scale. I have a friend who swears that i have to start neck turning.

Does it make a big difference in practical (1000 yard vs. benchrest) accuracy?

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

What else does your friend swear?

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

Have you ever found yourself referring to this friend as a Douche bag or A-Hole?

 

[fx77]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

Benchresters all turn necks to clean them up They remove .001-.002 generally.
They use tight neck chambers also.

U can get a tool to check your runout. If it is consistently within .001 U are GTG.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

Reducing extreme spread/standard deviation requires a lot more than weighting charges. Neck turning can/may help.

Winning Benchresters all have tight neck chambered rifles that demand turning to fit. They remove what ever it takes to get from .001" to .003" neck clearance, depending on their idea of what's better, and safe, for them.

No factory rifle chamber NEEDS any neck turning at all. Some - MOST? - factory brass does, at least a little. The usual suggestion is to turn about 80% of the circumference of the necks to reduce thickness variations and, hopefully, make the actual bullet tension more consistant...

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

The general consensus is that if you have a factory chamber, then neck sizing does not reduce group sizes.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

For my benchrest rifles I turn them all. For other rifles I often turn the case necks just to get a uniform thickness. More or less to remove thin and thick places. It holds the bullet more centered in the chamber.

 

[lostriverproductions]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

I wouldnt with out knowing more about your set up

 

[USMCj]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

I neck turn to clean up the necks and make the thickness uniform. For Lapua brass, you dont need to remove much to get them uniform. For winchester brass, lol!!!!! they suck balls is all I will say.

 

[Longguns]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

I turn the necks just to get everything uniform. I have benchrest rifle and it helps but I cannot tell any difference on factory. Just like to make sure everything is uniform.

 

[Evilaviator]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

So what is the prevailing thought on neck turning brass for semi-autos? Is it not worth the hassle since the life of brass is expected to be so much shorter? I am about to start reloading for my AR and I am going back and forth on this issue.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

I would never neckturn for a AR.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

Whether or not you need to do any specific operation depends on the brass itself. A lot of guys take the shotgun approach and "do everything" instead of diagnosing a problem in order to discover the "why" behind something that isn't working the way they want. I do neck turn some of my brass, but I'm not sold on the idea that small differences around the circumference of the neck makes a big difference. I see the benefits as removing donuts when they occur and removing the taper along the length of the neck, making it uniform front-to-back. Any high speed stamping operation requires a slight taper in the die, cases are no exception.

If you're weighing each charge and still getting large SDs, that does point to an issue with neck tension. But that doesn't mean neck turning will solve the issue. Are your necks clean? Have they become hard and are in need of annealing? Even with neck turned brass, groups and SD open up when the brass gets hard. One of the most useful tools I have on my loading bench is a set of gage pins: http://www.meyergage.com/products/individual_class_z_pins.htm

$2.50 each, $20 buys the 8 I use: 0.3040" to 0.3080" in 0.0005" increments. These tell me if I have donuts, if the necks have excessive taper or if I'm not getting consistent neck tension after sizing. A concentricity gage is another invaluable tool. Inconsistent neck tension or high bullet runout usually mean its time to anneal (assuming you're using quality brass with consistent neck thickness).

Diagnose the problem, then you will know what the proper solution is before you invest the time in doing it to all of your cases.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

When you have large SD's i have noticed that it is not usually the neck of your case that is the problem. I neck turn for several different calibers. When i run into speed problems i look at more of the type or bullet, type of powder and one big thing is the primers.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

With (I'm assuming from your screen name) an M1A, one assumes there's a SAAMI spec chamber, as opposed to a match-dimensioned chamber, which tend to run to much closer tolerances and generally tighter dimensions.

The tighter the dimensions and tolerances, the more significant case prep issues like neck turning become, with such considerations being nearly insignificant for the more generous SAAMI chamber specs. Other characteristics common to semiautos can also make such nuances mostly immaterial.

Your friend is on an interesting track, and may be saying useful things, if for the wrong reasons (if we're talking abough SAAMI spec'd factory chambers), but his heart is pure and his intentions are honorable. Humor him, and feel free to skip the neck turning. In the long run, it's probably for the best...

Greg

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

Depends on your definition of large and whether it is a load you're working or one that is already developped. With my standard load (developped and proven), SDs are in the singles when everything is working as it should be. When the necks get hard or donuts develop, those SDs creep into the teens (sometimes the 20's). Traces on my Pressure Trace system also start to separate. Annealing the brass, removing the donuts (or both) is what is usually required to tighten things up again.

 

[Unsichtbar]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

At kombayotch suggestion on a previous thread I bought a set of gage pins. I found out allot of information case health by using them. I would not be with out them, they are a bargain

 

[m1a convert]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

I am shooting a GA Precision Rock.

What I have gathered from a few of my threads is that my Chrono was probably to close to my gun.

I also quit using my RCBS Chargemaster and started handweighing the charges. I will go chrono again and go from there.

thanks everyone.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Neck turning worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depends on your definition of large and whether it is a load you're working or one that is already developped. With my standard load (developped and proven), SDs are in the singles when everything is working as it should be. When the necks get hard or donuts develop, those SDs creep into the teens (sometimes the 20's). Traces on my Pressure Trace system also start to separate. Annealing the brass, removing the donuts (or both) is what is usually required to tighten things up again. </div></div>

Using inside neck reamers gets rid of all my donut problems. I never have to worry about them again. I usually start small and work my way up to see what the gun usually likes. I have SD's at 4 with the current load i am using now.