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Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

2

2156SMK

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 8, 2009
729
2
49
Los Angeles, CA
www.caprc.com
The situation goes like this:
2 years ago, I pulled a prize certificate off of the prize table at a big precision rifle match.
I chose the specific certificate because the company had a new product due out shortly that I wanted to use for a new rifle I was getting ready to build.
I sent in the certificate along with instructions to contact me for payment that would be due above the certificate's face value.
6 months goes by without any contact.
So I check-in and the answer is that the product is still not finished.
I give it a few more months and start to see the product is now available and being sold.
By this time, I have gone with another product from another company to finish the build.
So I contact the sponsor and ask for another product that is a currently produced item.
The specific items requested are probably some of the most commonly made parts that the company sells.
The sponsor was apologetic and said that one of the two items was in-stock with the other item due in a couple weeks.
4 more months and nothing...
So shot show rolls around this year and I go talk to the guy in person.
He says to call and he will get it right out.
Now that would be fine if it were actually possible to get him on the phone, but it does not seem to be possible to actually get him on the phone...
If I had known he would be this hard to deal with, there were lots of other good prizes I could have taken right off the table.
I guess the old addage "a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush" applies here.
So, I'm stuck with no prize and the more time that passes, the likelyhood of actually getting anything approaches zero.
No more prize certificates from small companies for me!

Now, is it just me, or is it pretty crappy for sponsors to issue prize certificates and not actually honor them?
The sponsor gets the goodwill of all the competitors who purchase the products BECAUSE the sponsor supports the sport, but the sponsor does not actually have to honor the ccertificate because nobody will actually call the guy out in public because he is a well-liked company on all the forums.

What's the best way to wrap this up?
Call him out?
He posts here almost every day...
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

I wouldn't lump all small companies into one. Just because one guy screwed you doesn't mean the other guys are going to, so I wouldn't let that weigh on your next decision whether you take a certificate or a product that is there.

I would out the guy. 2 years is long enough to make it right!!!
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

Two years ago the economy was in alot better state than today. I'm sure that the company had full intentions of honoring his commitment. Now like most small companies he is probably feeling the effects of this recession.

You on the other hand were completely right to assume that something of value would be delivered to you for your win. Another prize at least. Two years is a long time and you've been patient.
"Now, is it just me, or is it pretty crappy for sponsors to issue prize certificates and not actually honor them?
The sponsor gets the goodwill of all the competitors who purchase the products BECAUSE the sponsor supports the sport, but the sponsor does not actually have to honor the ccertificate because nobody will actually call the guy out in public because he is a well-liked company on all the forums."

Yes its pretty "crappy" and unfortunately with the internet and forums. When you call out someone for a "lapse" of "integrity" or "honor". You get all kinds of supporters jumping all over you for making such a disclosure. As if you're the bad guy.

The two years that you've waited and the representation that you were willing to compromise on a lessor item. Suggest that you've been more than reasonable in this awkward situation. give him a couple days to respond honorably and if that doesn't produce results, let us know who it is.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

Have you pm'd him on the Hide? If he is posting almost daily, it's pretty obvious that he would know if he's getting pm's.

Send a couple polite, but "straight to the point" pm's to him. If he doesn't offer to resolve it privately, I think you are well within your rights to call him out.

If his supporters jump on your case for doing so, regardless of the 2 year wait, fuck em. Anyone that defends that type of business practice is not worth your time. I got some good friends that can be complete assholes to people. Just because they are my buddies, it doesn't mean I'm going to defend their actions!

If the reality of this story is as told, you've done nothing wrong and deserve to have things made right.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two years ago the economy was in a lot better state than today. I'm sure that the company had full intentions of honoring his commitment.</div></div>

Honor does not require an axis of time to be plotted. You have it, or not. Sorry, but the economy is no excuse. At the point you make that commitment, you should have the materials available. Even if not, it can't be a solid gold billet receiver he's talking about. It's steel or aluminum, and the sponsor's time. Non-delivery is dishonorable, short of a one-man shop where the one man has been chronically ill.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor



If the reality of this story is as told, you've done nothing wrong and deserve to have things made right.[/quote]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BugSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two years ago the economy was in a lot better state than today. I'm sure that the company had full intentions of honoring his commitment.</div></div>

Honor does not require an axis of time to be plotted. You have it, or not. Sorry, but the economy is no excuse. At the point you make that commitment, you should have the materials available. Even if not, it can't be a solid gold billet receiver he's talking about. It's steel or aluminum, and the sponsor's time. Non-delivery is dishonorable, short of a one-man shop where the one man has been chronically ill.
</div></div>

Well said BugSniper. Honor the commitments you've made, even if it is a hardship on you to do it.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BugSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two years ago the economy was in a lot better state than today. I'm sure that the company had full intentions of honoring his commitment.</div></div>

Honor does not require an axis of time to be plotted. You have it, or not. Sorry, but the economy is no excuse. At the point you make that commitment, you should have the materials available. Even if not, it can't be a solid gold billet receiver he's talking about. It's steel or aluminum, and the sponsor's time. Non-delivery is dishonorable, short of a one-man shop where the one man has been chronically ill.
</div></div>

LOL!... of course it doesn't. But its always amazing how financial pressure sets commitment, integrity and honor aside.

Those who mistakenly believe that honorable conduct and that a mans word is his bond. Should, or does, rule a persons life. Has not lived long enough to personally view and experience human frailty.
Entry: frail·ty
Pronunciation: \fral-te\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural frailties
Date: 14th century

1 : the quality or state of being frail
2 : a fault due to weakness especially of moral character
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

If they don't honor the certificate, they aren't following through with their commitment to be a vendor here. Simple as that. IMHO
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

If it was a person to person transaction, then I'd say it's just between you and him. But sponsors trade on the good name of the site, and therefor should be held accountable for misdeeds.

Still, airing dirty laundry generally leads to more dirty laundry.

Send Frank a PM explaining the situation and asking him how you should proceed.
It's his site, and they're his sponsor.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't lump all small companies into one. Just because one guy screwed you doesn't mean the other guys are going to, so I wouldn't let that weigh on your next decision whether you take a certificate or a product that is there.

I would out the guy. 2 years is long enough to make it right!!! </div></div>

+1

I run a pretty small company, and we support all the major hide events and a few others. This year so far I've personally sent in 8 donations to various events. Now I realize that is chump change compared to what some other guys do, but to us, that is a lot of money. Maybe the guy you are dealing with just got in over his head, he may have had the best intentions.

It really depends on how bad you want what he promised...personally I would try and make contact with him again and get it worked out. If all else fails you really have two choices...out him and hope for the best or accept that you are not going to get anything and move on.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

The plot thickens, I got this PM:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is XXXXX, save your breath and move on. You will not get anything out of it.
That is the only hide vendor I have had a bad time out of. </div></div>

So it seems I'm not the only one.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

I would say, if it is XXXXX and you are not the only one it is definitely time to PM Frank and/or post it up. No shady deals allowed on the Hide.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

We need to know who is up to shady dealings..... let it be known
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it was a person to person transaction, then I'd say it's just between you and him. But sponsors trade on the good name of the site, and therefor should be held accountable for misdeeds.

Still, airing dirty laundry generally leads to more dirty laundry.

Send Frank a PM explaining the situation and asking him how you should proceed.
It's his site, and they're his sponsor. </div></div>

It's rare I agree with Tucker, this is one of those times though...
grin.gif
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

I run a small company and donate as much as I can and sometimes more than I should according to Mrs. P-Tac.
If you cannot honor your commitments then either have a very good reason for it and give the customer their money back or don't make any more commitments, fix it and move on.
In this case the Vendor isn't out any money and neither is the prize winner. So it becomes even more complicated.

This sounds like "torch and pitchfork" moment waiting to happen.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cheese</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In this case the Vendor isn't out any money and neither is the prize winner. So it becomes even more complicated.
</div></div>

Excepting that the prize winner could have selected an equally valued, or similarly valued prize two years ago. Then either used the prize or sold it. Setting aside two years of BS trying to collect the prize.

Presumably the donating company, the infamous "XXXXX", received the benefit of the advertising and "good will" that arose from the supposed "donation".
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

So I attended the TBRC this weekend and there were 5 more certificates on the wall from the same company.
I wonder if those certificates are going to be treated the same way as mine.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I attended the TBRC this weekend and there were 5 more certificates on the wall from the same company.
I wonder if those certificates are going to be treated the same way as mine. </div></div>

Well unless you outed this guy somewhere else, then there is no reason for him not to treat people the same way he has treated you. What has he got to lose, a threat of being outed? I am sure he is shaking in his boots now.
sleep.gif
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

This is getting a bit ridiculous.

Either send a PM to Lowlight and let him handle it (preferred),
out the sponsor publicly and allow them the opportunity to face their accuser, or shut up about it.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I attended the TBRC this weekend and there were 5 more certificates on the wall from the same company.
I wonder if those certificates are going to be treated the same way as mine. </div></div>

Are you really going to continue to bitch about this and not say anything? Or do you just like the drama?
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

Yep, this thread is losing altitude at an increasing rate. Pull up and engage or bail out and accept your loss.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I attended the TBRC this weekend and there were 5 more certificates on the wall from the same company.
I wonder if those certificates are going to be treated the same way as mine. </div></div>

Are you really going to continue to bitch about this and not say anything? Or do you just like the drama?</div></div>
At this point I am starting to have sympathy for the company.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

technically you should be be dealing with Vu on the matter if you got the Certificate at a match, like TBRC and it is not being honored you should be going to the match director as the promise to honor the certificates has been made to him / them.

it's pretty simple, you attended a match, received a prize which is not being honored, so contact the match director.

The fact he is on here, is one thing, where you got it is another. Lots of people are on here, and you can use the site to help, but it is not the site's responsibility to mediate for a prize received somewhere else. If you attended the SHC or Bash, then yes.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lumpy grits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Fish or cut bait"
Either "out" him,contact LL,or STOP crying about it!
Cheers,
LG </div></div>

I can't remember the name, but there was a suppressor company that was having a hard time keeping on course that had a similar "where's my stuff? It's been over a year" story at some point. The issue there was that they were a very hyped friend or friend of a friend type shop and the people doing the hype always got what they wanted and saw no problem. Meanwhile Joe Blow was accumulating a record of non-delivery. The problem in resolving that case stemmed from communual defense of the company who was "just having a hard time growing with the awesome customer response" or "was just getting back in the game after having some bad apples leave", etc. Maybe this is a similar situation if not the same company and the OP won't get anywhere because of personal relationships and trust trumping objectivity.

I'm just going from memory (I tried searching for the thread, but SH search returns 2 much irrellevant stuff), but this story does sound familiar. Then again, it's one I've heard many times in many industries where the idea guys or "field tested/respected" guys simply can't run a business anywhere but into the ground no matter how great the product or their industry contacts. Invariably, their friends can't accept the outcome, because it makes no sense, and there must be a perfectly reasonable explanation if they can just (ir)rationalize hard enough.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BugSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lumpy grits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Fish or cut bait"
Either "out" him,contact LL,or STOP crying about it!
Cheers,
LG </div></div>

I can't remember the name, but there was a suppressor company that was having a hard time keeping on course that had a similar "where's my stuff? It's been over a year" story at some point. The issue there was that they were a very hyped friend or friend of a friend type shop and the people doing the hype always got what they wanted and saw no problem. Meanwhile Joe Blow was accumulating a record of non-delivery. The problem in resolving that case stemmed from communual defense of the company who was "just having a hard time growing with the awesome customer response" or "was just getting back in the game after having some bad apples leave", etc. Maybe this is a similar situation if not the same company and the OP won't get anywhere because of personal relationships and trust trumping objectivity.

I'm just going from memory (I tried searching for the thread, but SH search returns 2 much irrellevant stuff), but this story does sound familiar. Then again, it's one I've heard many times in many industries where the idea guys or "field tested/respected" guys simply can't run a business anywhere but into the ground no matter how great the product or their industry contacts. Invariably, their friends can't accept the outcome, because it makes no sense, and there must be a perfectly reasonable explanation if they can just (ir)rationalize hard enough.</div></div>

Please give me a break... It is apples and oranges...

Nobody is saying they are paying for product and not receiving it, they are saying they got a certificate and nothing to show..

Two different situation. When Jet had their problem it went across the board, and wasn't a case of not honoring a certificate.

You're clutching at straws in your comparison
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ace31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHO IS THE GUY ALREADY? </div></div>

It's me.

I offered a certificate for a photo shoot with a bunch of my naked ladies and a personalized calendar for the winner. My recent yet short incarceration has hindered that. The OP is free to P.M. me. Sorry about the delay.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ace31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHO IS THE GUY ALREADY? </div></div>

It's me.

I offered a certificate for a photo shoot with a bunch of my naked ladies and a personalized calendar for the winner. My recent yet short incarceration has hindered that. The OP is free to P.M. me. Sorry about the delay.</div></div>
Well in that case I will buy it from him!
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please give me a break... It is apples and oranges...

Nobody is saying they are paying for product and not receiving it, they are saying they got a certificate and nothing to show..

Two different situation. When Jet had their problem it went across the board, and wasn't a case of not honoring a certificate.

You're clutching at straws in your comparison </div></div>

I didn't bother considering the certificate vs purchase angle because the fact he received a cert didn't mean that nobody ever paid for it automatically in my mind. I'm neither the vendor nor the event organizer, so I don't know if the item was a 100% donation/promise or the organizer bought what is essentially a gift certificate and the vendor is acting more as a thief. I think maybe you're taking your own experience for granted when it comes to how prizes are handled.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you really going to continue to bitch about this and not say anything?</div></div>

I'm just giving the vendor some time to respond to my PM before I out him.
Believe it or not, some people go home from work on the weekend and don't respond to forum PM's or emails about work related stuff.
If he responds positively and actually follows through in a timely manner, I see no need to out him as I will get the result I was looking for.
If he ignores me or tells me to piss off, all here will know that too.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact he is on here, is one thing, where you got it is another. Lots of people are on here, and you can use the site to help</div></div>

All I'm doing is using the site for help.
I sent him a PM about the situation.
Emails, calls and speaking to the vendor in-person at Shot Show concerning this have not been effective.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

This appears to be resolved.
The vendor answered my PM with a positive answer.

Edited to add:

This WAS indeed resolved.
My prize showed up on my doorstep 6/8/10.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This appears to be resolved.
The vendor answered my PM with a positive answer. </div></div>

Thank you for the unnecessary drama. We really appreciate it.
 
Re: Need advice on dealing with a sponsor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This appears to be resolved.
The vendor answered my PM with a positive answer. </div></div>

Thank you for the unnecessary drama. We really appreciate it. </div></div>

You know what happened? Well he put this thread up here to threaten the sponsor. Sent the sponsor a link to this thread and said if you don't pay up I am going to out you. Well sponsors says ok, the same thing the sponsor has been doing for the last 2 years. Well in a couple of months, when this said sponsor doesn't produce anything, he will be back wondering if he should out him again.
 
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