Gunsmithing Need advise on quality airbrush for Cerakote application

[razoredgeknives]

I found this on amazon but there are some mixed reviews...

Amazon.com: Master Airbrush® G444-SET High Precision Detail Control Dual-action Gravity Feed Airbrush Professional Set and Now a (FREE) How to Airbrush Training Book to Get You Started.

you can get these bottles to store your different colors in and then just change them out quickly for a camo pattern or something. in between color changes you can just have one of these bottles be filled with acetone and run a little through your airbrush before exchanging it for your new color.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0038D58U8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A23ADOZFIJNPFB

I can't seem to find any other airbrushes that allow you to do this that are better quality... I don't want to have to clean my entire airbrush each time i want to change a color. any ideas? links would be appreciated!

 

[bhoges]

I use this one with excellent results. Yeah its cheap but it sprays an even pattern and if you ruin it who cares. Yeah guys will say you need to spend money on a good gun. Its b.s.
I painted cars for 7 years at a high end shop. Save your money. I used everything from gunkote,cerakoat to urethane clears with excellent results. It will work off a small compressor since its an HVLP.

http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Force-A-...im_auto_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=1FGCRN7AM8AGPA11D534

 

[Sonic Crack]

Im no camo stock painter but, I'm sure the good stock painters like short bus do not just switch colors quickly back n forth. Even articles I've read about camo paint say, coat of one color, let dry/tack, and stencils or stickers, coat of one color ect ect. If your wanting to quickly paint a camo stock, save your money, buy rattle cans and cut out some stencils from paper. You can have a camo whatever in 15 min w/o cleaning or mixing paint

 

[cal50]

Harbor Freight HVLP spray gun for about $30 and it has the correct tip / orifice installed.
I have had hit & miss results using an airbrush and Cerakote.

YMMV.



HVLP Touch Up Spray Gun

 

[chipsfan]

I'd get a cheap hvlp gravity gun. I've been applying cerakite for 6 or 7 years. Back in the day I used an airbrush. Lame.

 

[razoredgeknives]

I use this one with excellent results. Yeah its cheap but it sprays an even pattern and if you ruin it who cares. Yeah guys will say you need to spend money on a good gun. Its b.s.
I painted cars for 7 years at a high end shop. Save your money. I used everything from gunkote,cerakoat to urethane clears with excellent results. It will work off a small compressor since its an HVLP.

This is a great help... thanks for the feedback!

Im no camo stock painter but, I'm sure the good stock painters like short bus do not just switch colors quickly back n forth. Even articles I've read about camo paint say, coat of one color, let dry/tack, and stencils or stickers, coat of one color ect ect. If your wanting to quickly paint a camo stock, save your money, buy rattle cans and cut out some stencils from paper. You can have a camo whatever in 15 min w/o cleaning or mixing paint

I'm not wanting to "switch back and forth" persay, I just don't want to clean my HVLP between each color change. I want to clean them all at once at the end to save time. Plus, what if I want to go back and overlay a certain color? I have to clean the previous color out of my gun and then put the new back in again. This is time consuming and wasteful, ya know?

I'd get a cheap hvlp gravity gun. I've been applying cerakite for 6 or 7 years. Back in the day I used an airbrush. Lame.

I have the QS-125WB from Homestead Finishing (QualSpray HVLP Guns - Homestead Finishing Products) and it's a beast! It lays a perfect spray down with tons of adjustments. There is a HUGE difference between this and the guns from Harbor freight for sure! this gun is the same thing as the Asturo 878 wb (Paint Sprayers Plus AOM Asturo 878 WB Mini HVLP Spray Gun)

 

[country888]

I use the master g33 airbrush if I remember correctly. It works just fine for do it yourself jobs. I just run a little acetone through it between colours then clean throughly when done. You use much less paint with a airbrush, I usually mix 20 to 1 when doing a AR and half of that on a pistol. That's for a flat mix.

 

[LRI]

We do a great deal of paint work. The airbrush is a skill I've yet to acquire. I've got a Badger (paid around $100 for it from a craft store) and I hate it. I've never had a run in Cerakote using a Sata touch up gun. I can very easily with the AB. It's probably me as I've never really taken much time to figure the thing out.

That said. Unless your painting low rider impalas on the side of your rifle, I don't think you really need an AB. The coverage area they provide is quite small and this means its easy to get a "striped" appearance in your paint unless you are very careful. Like I said, I suck at it.

The touch up gun makes it easy.

A lot of AB guys use frisket paper for stencils. I've never had any luck with it as I want more edge definition. This commands vinyl stencils and a vinyl cutter. Best one out there is the Graphtec. If your going to do anything in any quantity, buy a Graphtec and cry once. There won't be any buyer's remorse once your up and running. The cheapo $200 rice paddy imports are just a waste of money. The process has been proven over/over so your not charting into the unknown.

Guys get by with cheap import guns. Some claim they are just as good as the higher end units. That hasn't been our experience. I would encourage anyone to look at a professional body shop. I've been in quite a few and I've yet to see Harbor Freight paint guns hanging in their booths. There's a reason for this. -just food for thought.

Don't entertain the "well I'm just a hobbiest" mentality. There's no reason a guy in his garage cannot get the same results "pros" get in big shops. You actually have the advantage. For us that do this for a living, the jobs pay only so much so we have to do the best we can within the time allocated for the job.

If it takes you a month to complete your projects your out nothing.

Good luck and hope this helps.

C.

 

[Twisted300Win MAG]

We do a great deal of paint work. The airbrush is a skill I've yet to acquire. I've got a Badger (paid around $100 for it from a craft store) and I hate it. I've never had a run in Cerakote using a Sata touch up gun. I can very easily with the AB. It's probably me as I've never really taken much time to figure the thing out.

That said. Unless your painting low rider impalas on the side of your rifle, I don't think you really need an AB. The coverage area they provide is quite small and this means its easy to get a "striped" appearance in your paint unless you are very careful. Like I said, I suck at it.

The touch up gun makes it easy.

A lot of AB guys use frisket paper for stencils. I've never had any luck with it as I want more edge definition. This commands vinyl stencils and a vinyl cutter. Best one out there is the Graphtec. If your going to do anything in any quantity, buy a Graphtec and cry once. There won't be any buyer's remorse once your up and running. The cheapo $200 rice paddy imports are just a waste of money. The process has been proven over/over so your not charting into the unknown.

Guys get by with cheap import guns. Some claim they are just as good as the higher end units. That hasn't been our experience. I would encourage anyone to look at a professional body shop. I've been in quite a few and I've yet to see Harbor Freight paint guns hanging in their booths. There's a reason for this. -just food for thought.

Don't entertain the "well I'm just a hobbiest" mentality. There's no reason a guy in his garage cannot get the same results "pros" get in big shops. You actually have the advantage. For us that do this for a living, the jobs pay only so much so we have to do the best we can within the time allocated for the job.

If it takes you a month to complete your projects your out nothing.

Good luck and hope this helps.

C.

It's always a good idea to cut corners and cheep out. Until it bites you in the ass. It never pays enough to do it right the first time but always pays to redo it after you fuck it up. Chad is spot on in his advise. Buy once cry once. Look at it like this, for the $250-350 you could spend on a good spray gun, you could pay to have a couple guns coated. So if you coat 3 of your guns you have paid for your nice new spray gun that will last you a lifetime. Changing colors shouldn't be a concern because if your giving the product the proper flash time you have plenty of time to rinse the gun out. If it's worth doing its worth doing right. Also remember this, HVLP stands for high volume low presure. They DO NOT lend will to small compressors. Yes they run on lower pressure. However they rely on high volume of air. That means they require on average 30% more CFM then a converlntional spray gun. If your not meeting the air demand your not getting the consistent atomization. This leads to uneven/ inconsistent surface finish. Look what the spray gun manufacturer suggests. Treat it like speeds and feeds chart for a lathe/mill tool. Its a baseline to start from, not a golden rule, but if your too far from them you've got surface issues. Just my .02
Donald

 

[razoredgeknives]

We do a great deal of paint work. The airbrush is a skill I've yet to acquire. I've got a Badger (paid around $100 for it from a craft store) and I hate it. I've never had a run in Cerakote using a Sata touch up gun. I can very easily with the AB. It's probably me as I've never really taken much time to figure the thing out.

That said. Unless your painting low rider impalas on the side of your rifle, I don't think you really need an AB. The coverage area they provide is quite small and this means its easy to get a "striped" appearance in your paint unless you are very careful. Like I said, I suck at it.

The touch up gun makes it easy.

A lot of AB guys use frisket paper for stencils. I've never had any luck with it as I want more edge definition. This commands vinyl stencils and a vinyl cutter. Best one out there is the Graphtec. If your going to do anything in any quantity, buy a Graphtec and cry once. There won't be any buyer's remorse once your up and running. The cheapo $200 rice paddy imports are just a waste of money. The process has been proven over/over so your not charting into the unknown.

Guys get by with cheap import guns. Some claim they are just as good as the higher end units. That hasn't been our experience. I would encourage anyone to look at a professional body shop. I've been in quite a few and I've yet to see Harbor Freight paint guns hanging in their booths. There's a reason for this. -just food for thought.

Don't entertain the "well I'm just a hobbiest" mentality. There's no reason a guy in his garage cannot get the same results "pros" get in big shops. You actually have the advantage. For us that do this for a living, the jobs pay only so much so we have to do the best we can within the time allocated for the job.

If it takes you a month to complete your projects your out nothing.

Good luck and hope this helps.

C.

Hey LR thanks for the post! A few notes/questions...

as far as an AB goes, I am wanting it so I can do graphics/designs/camo in combination with stencils for cool effects. Are you saying that you don't think I would need this? Some of the artwork on pistols & rifles is amazing and I don't see how you could do it without something where you could REALLY refine the stream/paint flow for shading etc... of course I realize you want proper atomization. such as these following pictures:

http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_17191_575xauto.jpg
http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_16222_1200xauto.jpg
http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_10627_1200xauto.jpg
etc.

that being said, I am finally getting to where I can get custom stencils cut by a friend who has a laser etcher... it cuts through the actual stencil film but doesn't cut through the backing, then I have to "weed" it to take out the parts I don't want (for a negative stencil). Then I have to put transfer tape on top of the stencil, at which point I can remove the backing from the stencil and stick it to my pistol/rifle/knife. then I can remove the transfer tape and paint it. but This process is TEDIOUS... is there a better way using the Graphtec or is it basically the same?

 

[LRI]

Laser or vinyl cutter?

I'd have a difficult time imagining a laser that'll control its depth well enough to burn through a .006" thick film of vinyl without touching the paper. A vinyl cutter does do this however as the blade depth is adjustable. Like I said, the Graphtec is the best out there. Ours will cut at over 1K ipm.

I'm the worst guy to ask about air brushes so I can't help you there.

Using transfer paper to decide whether you want weeds or frames is how it works. You get one or the other. I don't use transfer paper much anymore unless its for letters that have a feature in the font that isn't supported by the frame. (stencil fonts)

If your buying vinyl get a hold of fellers. The yellow masking film is what we use. Get a hot air gun from a hobby shop that deals in RC planes. You want the ones for covering. A conventional gun gets too hot and will lift the material.

Good luck

.

 

[razoredgeknives]

Laser or vinyl cutter?

I'd have a difficult time imagining a laser that'll control its depth well enough to burn through a .006" thick film of vinyl without touching the paper. A vinyl cutter does do this however as the blade depth is adjustable. Like I said, the Graphtec is the best out there. Ours will cut at over 1K ipm.

I'm the worst guy to ask about air brushes so I can't help you there.

Using transfer paper to decide whether you want weeds or frames is how it works. You get one or the other. I don't use transfer paper much anymore unless its for letters that have a feature in the font that isn't supported by the frame. (stencil fonts)

If your buying vinyl get a hold of fellers. The yellow masking film is what we use. Get a hot air gun from a hobby shop that deals in RC planes. You want the ones for covering. A conventional gun gets too hot and will lift the material.

Good luck

.

Thanks! Yeah, it is laser and it is extremely precise... it controls the depth perfectly. The only issue I have ran into so far is that if the sheet is rippled (or bubbled up and not perfectly flat) then the laser won't cut as deep as it needs to. But it hasn't been a big deal, it still cuts it somewhat and I can still weed it.

Right now I am using a high temp vinyl masking film which is called V-Mask. That yellow stuff seems great! who is fellers? here on the hide? (a link to his profile/site would be appreciated).

what do you use the hot air gun for? i am not tracking here...

thanks for all your input, it has been a big help! I feel SO unknowledgable about these things!

 

[cal50]

The Harbor Freight gun works fine for hobby / home use. Obviously if you are spraying everyday buy a pro gun. The pro guns are built to be taken apart and cleaned daily where as the HF guns spray well but not intended for daily or commercial use. The HF weakness is in the durability for daily take apart and cleaning. If you plan on spraying a dozen guns a year they are great , a dozen guns a day everyday they will wear from take down and cleaning.

 

[LRI]

Thanks! Yeah, it is laser and it is extremely precise... it controls the depth perfectly. The only issue I have ran into so far is that if the sheet is rippled (or bubbled up and not perfectly flat) then the laser won't cut as deep as it needs to. But it hasn't been a big deal, it still cuts it somewhat and I can still weed it.

Right now I am using a high temp vinyl masking film which is called V-Mask. That yellow stuff seems great! who is fellers? here on the hide? (a link to his profile/site would be appreciated).

what do you use the hot air gun for? i am not tracking here...

thanks for all your input, it has been a big help! I feel SO unknowledgable about these things!

Google foo Fellers. The hot air gun gets the vinyl softened up to meld onto uneven surfaces. Try wrapping a grip or cheek piece feature once with cold/stiff vinyl. -no worky...

It'll also get the adhesive to cling to a freshly painted surface better.

C.

 

[bhoges]

I used SATA spray guns for years while I worked at a shop. I painted Diamont, Glasurit, PPG, Chromabase ext. Great guns until you need a part. Sata only sells the air cap, nozzle and needle as a full set. Other companies sell the parts on their own. Trust me the cheap guns work fine. I painted cars worth over 100k on a regular basis. You don't need expensive equipment for doing rifle stocks. Im all for quality gear and yeah if your doing it for a living its the only way to go. For weekend hobbyist the spray gun from Amazon is fine. As long as you clean it after each use they hold up fine. Ive been using mine for a few months now. Yes colors changes aren't as fast as an airbrush but with need to let the colors dry anyway so thats not even an issue. Most nozzle sizes are too small if you need to ever spray clears. Sure some of the piss thin clears will spray but for a good finish I use Glasuirt High Solids clear and add flattening agent to make a flat finish. Its Glasurit is good enough for high end cars like BMW or Ferrari its good enough for me.

 

[bhoges]

You tell me does this look good for a $25 gun?

 

[navyflyer72]

nope, doesn't look like a $25 gun at all! Very nice finish!

 

[razoredgeknives]

to me it makes a huge difference... Of course I have only used the cheap $15 lvlp guns from harbor freight. What I have found is that the QC on them is extremely inconsistent. One will allow too much paint through whereas another won't let enough through. Not only that, but they break pretty frequently. Finally, I just don't have the fine tuning to detail on the cheap HF guns that I do on my QS-125WB. It makes a world of difference and actually makes it enjoyable (since I don't have to spend all my time trying to fix broken guns, overspraying and getting runs and then having to re-finish, etc). Here is my Springfield XD I finished over the weekend...

 

[sgtsmmiii]

to me it makes a huge difference... Of course I have only used the cheap $15 lvlp guns from harbor freight. What I have found is that the QC on them is extremely inconsistent. One will allow too much paint through whereas another won't let enough through. Not only that, but they break pretty frequently. Finally, I just don't have the fine tuning to detail on the cheap HF guns that I do on my QS-125WB. It makes a world of difference and actually makes it enjoyable (since I don't have to spend all my time trying to fix broken guns, overspraying and getting runs and then having to re-finish, etc). Here is my Springfield XD I finished over the weekend...

Very nicely done.

 

[LRI]

That camo is the shit. Nice job!

That's bad ass!