Need an opinion on a Press

ReaperDriver

ReaperDriver

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    • Sep 5, 2009
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    #1
    I tried searching but didn't see anything specifically on this...

    I used to be an avid reloader MANY MANY years ago - but haven't done it for probably 20 years. I want to get back into it primarily to reload precision rifle (.308 and .223) and <span style="font-style: italic">maybe </span>the occasional pistol round. I have some odds and ends from my previous reloading setup that has sat in my parents garage for all these years and they're due to show up next week in the mail. I'm not sure how much is serviceable after all this time.

    Anyway - I'm thinking about getting one of the kits from RCBS or Lyman. The RCBS kits has the Rock Chucker press and I'm familiar with that one. The other kit that intrigues me is the Lyman with the T-Mag II with the removable turret press. My main question is: is a turret press suitable to reload precision Long range rifle rounds or should I stick with the Rock chucker? My interest is being able to leave my dies set in the turret correctly and not having to re-calibrate everything if I swap between loading .308 and .223.

    What do the experts think? is there a better 3rd alternative I'm not considering?
     
    #3
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i want to do one item at a time, keep it simple, and elegant, and consistent....turrets don't gain you much.... </div></div>
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the turret press (not progressive) is supposed to work - but I assumed that you would accomplish all of one stage before rotating the turret to do the next stage. So in that sense, its just like a single stage, except you're not having to unscrew the dies, screw the new on in, get it calibrated again, etc. It seems like the turrets saves a little bit of time tinkering with getting the dies "just right". So that's what it seems it buys me. But my only dilema is: is a turret press going to be as accurate as a basic dedicated single stage press?

    Am I thinking incorrectly about how a turret press works?
     
    #4
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Redding's turret press is very well made and precise. It is the only production turret that you should consider. A virtue of the turret is that with dies permanently placed, there is less opportunity to affect their adjustment.

    If you wish to consider other press designs, Redding and Forster make the better ones. Lyman and current production RCBS are less well fitted. Take a look for yourself.

    Actually, there has been a lot written in this forum on this topic. The problem lies with the <span style="font-style: italic">Search</span> function. Try the <span style="font-style: italic">Advanced</span> option. Perhaps you will be able to find some of what has been written advising against kits.
     
    #6
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Of course the Co-Ax is not a turret press, but with their snap in and out dies you can change from one process to another just as fast. You may want to give it a look.
     
    #7
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Whichever you get, you will need an "eraser" to pull bullets as you work up loads, or simply screw up a load. I find a C press or a Redding Turret to work best with a puller. The Coax is my choice for precision. Get a coax and a cheap used or Lee press to used as a bullet puller. Or, the T-7 which will give a dedicated hole just for the puller. I think I saw where Redding has threaded one hole of the T-7 for the Hornady lock and load bushing. If that is true, that option will give the ease of changing as well as the already fitted and adjusted dies. JMHO
     
    #8
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    The Lyman turrets are junk, but a lot of people like the redding turret. I have never used it.

    I'm making ammo that shoots great on a Lee Classic cast that I made a solid handle for. There was nothing "wrong" with the hollow handle it came with, the solid one just feels so much nicer.

    I would probably get a Redding Big Boss or the Forster Co-Ax if I was in the market for a press right now. But I'm just fine with this Lee classic cast. You might investigate the Lee classic cast turret?
     
    #9
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i want to do one item at a time, keep it simple, and elegant, and consistent....turrets don't gain you much.... </div></div>
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the turret press (not progressive) is supposed to work - but I assumed that you would accomplish all of one stage before rotating the turret to do the next stage. So in that sense, its just like a single stage, except you're not having to unscrew the dies, screw the new on in, get it calibrated again, etc. It seems like the turrets saves a little bit of time tinkering with getting the dies "just right". So that's what it seems it buys me. But my only dilema is: is a turret press going to be as accurate as a basic dedicated single stage press?

    Am I thinking incorrectly about how a turret press works? </div></div>
    You got it right. I use a T7, and love it. I highly recommend it.
     
    #10
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Thanks guys - that was exactly the input I was looking for.

    One last question: If I do go with a turret system like the Redding: is the whole turret removable along with the dies if I want to swap between say .308 and .223 and not have to change the dies out? I recall from my previous reloading days that one of my biggest PITA tasks was recalibrating the dies whenever I changed to reloading a new caliber. If so, how much is another turret?
     
    #12
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    you shouldnt have to re-calibrate any die that has a lock ring with a set screw... i get sub .5moa from my redding dies and rock chucker supreme, .308 and .223

    lyman has nice turret that locks with a set screw. when you rotate the turret, you set the screw in and the thing is solid.... i can't remember which one i saw, but the thing tracked really nice.

    i like the idea of a cheap single stage for a bullet puller.....
     
    #13
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Forster Co-Ax is by the easiest press on the planet to use, the dies are set and forget, no shell holders to buy, superior spent primer retention, you can also use it to prime cases, and because everything floats it produces straight ammo, anybody who recommends another press is a person who has not used a Co-Ax.
     
    #14
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    ha ha ha ha and when have you used the T7?


    I'm going to Cabalas to buy a Co-Ax just to have one so I can rub it yours and Chad's face!!!!

    I'm going to mount it right next to the Prometheus
    smirk.gif
     
    #15
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    223/308 and some pistol rounds has the Dillion written all over it. I also have a T7 and they are very nice but the Dillion is incredible, I use Comp Redding S Bushing Dies in all my reloading and they are the way to go. I check case runout and bullet runout and both of these presses produce very accurate ammo.
     
    #17
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Saying Lyman's turret press is "junk" is silly.

    I started with a six hole Lyman Spar-T in '65. HAD to be faster, or so I thought. NOT! I still have it. I eventually(home shop) converted it to a modern compound linkage and it works fine but I wanted something more rigid for accuracy. A (conventional) turret HAS to have some slop or the head couldn't be turned, right?

    Worse, for speed, was that as soon as I added a third cartridge to my inventory I still had to change dies, same as with a single stage. So, I locked the head down rigid for a long time. It only takes me maybe 25 seconds to exchange dies, that's close enought to "instant" for me!

    So, based on it's reputation, I finally got a Rock Chucker 2, too. I've learned that it's okay but no better than any other press in its design class. Today, if anyone offers to swap me a new Lee Classic Cast single stage for my perfect condition RC, it would only take as long as I needed to remove the bench bolts! The Classic Cast (all cast steel, not weaker/cheaper cast iron) press is the best, strongest press of its type currently available AND it has the best list of user features too.

    IF you really want a strong turret press with rationally priced and easy to swap heads, the Lee Classic Turret is also by far the best choice. It is NOT a "conventional" design like the Lyman or Redding, it has a unique method of retaining the head that positively limits turret spring and can be swapped in seconds with no tools! Price is right too. What's not to love?
     
    #19
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    I have a Forster co-ax to load 308 and Dillon RL550b for 223 and 45 acp. If you aren't planning/don't need to do volume reloading I'd say go with the co-ax. I could load 308 on my Dillon but I prefer the edge in precision of the co-ax. Once you have the dies set you wonder why anyone would use a press where you need to adjust the dies each time. Choose dies that have a micrometer seater die to save yourself time when changing bullet types.
     
    #20
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    ReaperDriver -

    I've had EXTREMELY good luck with my Dillon 550 progressive press on both .308 match ammo and .22-250 rifle rounds. I hand check each powder charge and fine tune it on the scales to confirm the weight is exact, then place it back on the progressive and continue. I'm able to get approximately 1 match round per minute with this technique (once all of the case prep and setting up the press is complete) and I've essentially paid for the press with the first thousand rounds. I can also load pistol, and many other calibers on the press (160 caliber conversions available according to Dillon) so it's an extremely versatile press.

    Bottom line - I am able to get consistent match grade ammunition from this press...I can consistently print sub-MOA 5 shot groups with the ammo through a factory Remington 700 PSS.

    Take that for what it's worth - the Dillon presses are going new for about ~$500 once you put a few necessities on it. It's WELL WORTH THE MONEY as far as I'm concerned...and the reduced time at the bench is convenient as compared to a single-stage press.

    I'm sure folks will chime in and say otherwise (that you can't load match grade ammo reliably on a progressive press) but I can back up this posting and I've been using this press for match ammo and shooting precision rifle competitively for a few years now.

    Bear
     
    #22
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One last question: If I do go with a turret system like the Redding, is the whole turret removable along with the dies if I want to swap between say .308 and .223 and not have to change the dies out? I recall from my previous reloading days that one of my biggest PITA tasks was recalibrating the dies whenever I changed to reloading a new caliber. If so, how much is another turret? </div></div>
    As pointed out, you should be able to change out dies without affecting the settings, but changing out turrets guarantees the die settings. Additional turrets go for under $60. A little care is necessary when changing out turrets to prevent losing the spring-loaded detent.
     
    #23
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Another option would be to obtain Fuzzball's RC II (better quality than current production) press, which has a relatively short handle-throw relative to the newer, large-window presses, and convert it with Hornady LnL bushings. (Fuzzball will be very disappointed if he ever tests a Lee against that press's strength.) You will have a very good single-stage press with short-throw that changes over quickly. The suggestion is inspired by this comment borrowed from another forum:

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: German Salazar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The cartridges you currently load are all short ones, so some of the current presses which allow for a very tall cartridge aren't really needed; even the Rockchucker now has a taller window than before. An older Rockchucker II with its slightly shorter window and make for a more efficient stroke. I use one of these for everything from 6BR to .30-06, although I have to tip the '06 in when seating bullets.

    Basically, any modern single-stage press from a quality manufacturer will do the job for you.... The Forster Co-Ax is a really nice press and has plenty of good features. I've never broken down to lay out the money for one, but I've loaded a little on a friend's and it was nice. Others like the Redding are a lot like the Rockchucker and will work fine. My personal preference is to avoid Lee products, but I know that they have many satisfied users also; I just think that for a little more money you can get a more satisfying product.
    __________________
    German Salazar
    Phoenix, Arizona</div></div>
    Just another way.
     
    #24
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Again, thanks for all the great comments. If I understand it right - the issue with a turret press is that the turret will flex ever so slightly under load and potentially create some tolerance issues with the round.

    Finally, with the Dillon progressive press (or other brands progressive presses) - I hear the majority of folks say that they are great for quantity but not for absolute precision. Is that a factor of the powder measure process, the case sizing process, something else or "all of the above"?
     
    #25
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I understand it right - the issue with a turret press is that the turret will flex ever so slightly under load and potentially create some tolerance issues with the round.</div></div>
    That is not true for all turret presses. The better-designed ones are not so compromised.
     
    #26
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I understand it right - the issue with a turret press is that the turret will flex ever so slightly under load and potentially create some tolerance issues with the round.</div></div>
    That is not true for all turret presses. The better-designed ones are not so compromised. </div></div>
    What would you consider to be the better-designed ones?
     
    #28
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My main question is: is a turret press suitable to reload precision Long range rifle rounds or should I stick with the Rock chucker? My interest is being able to leave my dies set in the turret correctly and not having to re-calibrate everything if I swap between loading .308 and .223.

    What do the experts think? is there a better 3rd alternative I'm not considering? </div></div>

    Ditch the whole argument and get a single stage press that can be adapted to the Hornady Lock n Load bushing set up (1 1/4 - 12 TPI opening). Stability of the single stage, ease of die swap that is MUCH less expensive than tool heads and such. Most single stage presses on the market now have a steel bushing that screws into the press so that they fit the standard 7/8 - 14 TPI dies.

    Lee Classic Cast Single Stage and the Redding Big Boss II are on the top of my list because they spit the spent primers out the bottom of the press instead of all over the place.

    JMHO, YRMV etc. etc.

    Cheers,

    Doc

    Oh, you might want to read this too

    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...96660#Post96660
     
    #29
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Thanks for all the input. I ended up getting a Rockchucker with Redding S-type bushing Match dies and lots and lots of other crap. I had forgotten how expensive the initial investment is. But it will be worth it for the access to better and cheaper ammo.

    Now if I can just get the wife to leave me alone long enough to dissappear in the garage for a couple of hours a week, I'll be set....
    shocked.gif
     
    #30
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    (Fuzzball will be very disappointed if he ever tests a Lee against that press's strength.)"

    Maybe. But I doubt it.

    Lee makes several presses and it does make a difference to which you speak. Lee's Classic series bodies are of cast steel, a very high grade steel, not the cheaper, weaker cast iron my RC has. And I have tested thr RC for spring while FL sizing .30-06; it runs about 3 thou, average. Not a lot of deflection but it sure ain't rigid.

    After the surprise of measuring that, I thought it would be interesting to see how much my two tiny (special purpose) Lee "Reloder" presses would spring under the same load. My .001" reading dial indicator bearly moved, not enough to really read! So much for the legendary strength of my "big iron" RC, AND how "weak" Lee's so called "pot metal" presses are! (But strongly held illusions die hard, don't they?) I haven't had an opportunity to test the deflection of Lee's steel body press but some how I'm no longer concered

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, anyone want to trade a new Classic Cast for a perfect condition RC?
    smile.gif
     
    #31
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lee's Classic series bodies are of cast steel, a very high grade steel, not the cheaper, weaker cast iron my RC has.</div></div>
    Quoted from page 16 of Lee's 2008 catalog:

    <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Rigid cast iron construction</span> in a classic "O" design for maximum strength.</span>
     
    #34
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    Copied from the middle of the referenced link:

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rigid cast iron construction in a classic "O" design for maximum strength.</div></div>
    Wonder how Richard turned steel into iron? Re-bar is made from scrap steel. Must be some other stuff added to that rail scrap. Carbon? Is there a pallet of Kingsford in one of those pictures?

    Actually, it doesn't matter. I saw a failure written up a few weeks ago. Someone sizing large magnum cases destroyed the lower platform (the piece with the handle attached). Described the material as <span style="font-style: italic">brass</span>. That's the piece that will break. I wondered why it was cheapest to make that part the way it is. Answer is, how to make it out of aluminum. With a CI press, why not just cast up a solid piece? Answer, it's cheaper to make it like the aluminum design, just cast it in brass.

    Yessir! Free lunch!
     
    #35
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried searching but didn't see anything specifically on this...

    I used to be an avid reloader MANY MANY years ago - but haven't done it for probably 20 years. I want to get back into it primarily to reload precision rifle (.308 and .223) and <span style="font-style: italic">maybe </span>the occasional pistol round. I have some odds and ends from my previous reloading setup that has sat in my parents garage for all these years and they're due to show up next week in the mail. I'm not sure how much is serviceable after all this time.

    Anyway - I'm thinking about getting one of the kits from RCBS or Lyman. The RCBS kits has the Rock Chucker press and I'm familiar with that one. The other kit that intrigues me is the Lyman with the T-Mag II with the removable turret press. My main question is: is a turret press suitable to reload precision Long range rifle rounds or should I stick with the Rock chucker? My interest is being able to leave my dies set in the turret correctly and not having to re-calibrate everything if I swap between loading .308 and .223.

    What do the experts think? is there a better 3rd alternative I'm not considering? </div></div>

    IMHO,...one of these works well enough for me..( and the free bullets didn't hurt...) http://www.hornady.com/get_loaded.php
     
    #36
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, it doesn't matter. I saw a failure written up a few weeks ago. Someone sizing large magnum cases destroyed the lower platform (the piece with the handle attached). Described the material as brass. That's the piece that will break. I wondered why it was cheapest to make that part the way it is. Answer is, how to make it out of aluminum. With a CI press, why not just cast up a solid piece? Answer, it's cheaper to make it like the aluminum design, just cast it in brass.
    </div></div>

    The LCC linkage and toggle are all steel, not aluminum or brass. The brass color is from the corrosion resistant coating applied to the steel.

    Andy
     
    #38
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    "Whatever it was, it broke. Cadmium plating?"

    One aspect of Lee's toggle design is that it allows the angle (and length)of the handle to be changed to suit the user's preference. It's a user friendly design but it does require that the owner keep the through bolt tight. If it's loose the lever forces are cammed away from where they are strong to where they are weak(er). A LOT of Lee's presses have had their toggles broken because of ham-fisted misuse that way. It's clearly mentioned in the instructions but seems many don't need or read no stinkin' instructions, right? But, on the other hand, if it's broken within two years Lee will replace it free - I don't think they should but they do. If someone makes something fool proof, nature will supply a more capabile fool?

    Now, has anyone ever thought of how good RCBS' warrantee/customer service is? But, if their tools were as bullet proof perfect as some would have us believe, who would ever know how good they back up their perfectly made stuff?

    What's wrong with the idea of a non-corrosive plating? My RC's handle sure could use some rust resistance!
     
    #39
    Re: Need an opinion on a Press

    I've also seen pics of someone's broken rockchucker toggle too.

    A few years ago, I would have bet on the LCC toggle's finish being cadmium plate, but with all the ROHS (Reduction Of Hazardous Substances) regulations, maybe not? I'm not sure about any other coatings applicable to steel that are that color though. Cadmium plating is effective and inexpensive, and if they don't care to sell it in Europe, maybe they're still using it.

    Andy
     
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