Rifle Scopes Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

[iphonewizz]

Hi everyone,

Just joined today and I'm looking forward to learning and contributing.

My question for all of you optics pro's out there is this:

What's the ideal scope for my AR10 for 1000+yd shots that is the perfect balance of price/quality? Here is some background on my situation.

I've wanted to build an AR10 for years and finally did last month, I got the DPMS SAS Upper and a CMMG Lower, I bought a decent used scope from a buddy that has Carl Zeiss glass for like $300. it's a 1" 4-20X but from all people I've asked say it's not meant for 1000+yd shots. I been looking at the real high end scopes by Leupold, US Optics and others but after buying the gun and all the add on stuff I'm in it almost $4k. So my question above is, what's the best scope out there for lowest price? If I have to spend over $1000 I will but there's a lot of scopes out there and I don't know much about them. Please Help!

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

I seem to be saying this a lot lately, but in the realm of upper class scopes, Nightforce is probably the best bang for the buck. To get better, you're going to have to spend a lot more money.

Some might say that IOR Valdada is the way to go. The Valdada are, for the most part, pretty close in price to the Nightforce line. Many will also say that the glass in the IOR is better than that of the Nightforce, but I think that the Nightforce is built better than the Valdada and the Nightforce scopes have more elevation travel, which may or may not matter to you.

How big a scope you need will depend on what you're shooting at. Some are good with a 10X (for steel), others need/want more. I run a 5.5-22X50 (I generally shoot at MOA sized targets). A 3.5-15X might be a good compromise.

 

[iphonewizz]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

Hey Tony,

Thank you for your answers so quickly, I'm going to check those brands out, my current scope is a 6.5-20X with Zeiss optics. I was wondering what the highest power scope is? is there something out there that is 10-40x? I want to be able to see really far out and shoot targets at 1000yds plus. Or does 5-20ish range do all I need? Thank you again!

 

[KillShot]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iphonewizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Tony,

Thank you for your answers so quickly, I'm going to check those brands out, my current scope is a 6.5-20X with Zeiss optics. I was wondering what the highest power scope is? is there something out there that is 10-40x? I want to be able to see really far out and shoot targets at 1000yds plus. Or does 5-20ish range do all I need? Thank you again!</div></div>

You don't need a 40x optic to hit targets at 1000yds and you're pushing the outer limits of the .308 at that distance. That is one of the biggest misconceptions people have about optics, the idea that you need a huge magnification range. Sure, the higher magnification is nice beyond 1000yds but the mirage is a mofo.

The NightForce NXS 3.5-15x will get you to 1000yds just fine but if you're wanting something with a higher magnification, look at the 5.5-22x with an NP-R1 reticle.

A friendly piece of advice, take it or leave it; I'd suggest you do a lot of reading on here before asking anymore questions unless you have skin like leather and you can take the beating from other members. Just a thought.

 

[NJ Shooter]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

Personaly, I"ll take resolution over magnafacation any day.

 

[pharm762]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

I run a Mark 4 4-14x50 and it works just fine. I prefer though my 5-25 on my bolt action for those distances. I personally like to keep the 4-14x type scopes on my AR10 because there is more versatility in that sometimes at the shoots here we shoot close targets and we need to dial it down and at max magnification to range it really closes your field of view especially if you are shooting movers.

My suggestion would be the Zeiss or Leupold with mil dots or the Z reticle. Stay with the Z800 because the Z1000 looks too cluttered to me.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

Killshot hit it right on the head ... 1000 yds is pushing it for .308 it is possible but the bullet gets a bit squirly, of course it depends on the day, powder, Muzzle Vel. etc.

I used a 4.5 to 14 and I could see the target just fine -- but I just bought a Night Force 5.5-22 and all I have to say is WOW. One concern is if you want FFP or not ... without FFP the Mil scale is only good at max power unless you can do the math in your head. The other issue is the more power you use is limited by the mirrage factor of the that day, so even if you have 40x all you see is this image that cant stay still.

 

[iphonewizz]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

Hey Killshot, thanks for the advice, I've been in the car business for 24 years, there's nothin goin on on this board that wouldn't roll off my back like water off a duck!!! We were all newbie's at one point, it just happens that I'm the newbie at long range target shooting, but I've been shooting and hunting since I was 5, this discipline is just the next one! I really do appreciate everyones input and advice!

Thanks!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iphonewizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Tony,

Thank you for your answers so quickly, I'm going to check those brands out, my current scope is a 6.5-20X with Zeiss optics. I was wondering what the highest power scope is? is there something out there that is 10-40x? I want to be able to see really far out and shoot targets at 1000yds plus. Or does 5-20ish range do all I need? Thank you again!</div></div>

You don't need a 40x optic to hit targets at 1000yds and you're pushing the outer limits of the .308 at that distance. That is one of the biggest misconceptions people have about optics, the idea that you need a huge magnification range. Sure, the higher magnification is nice beyond 1000yds but the mirage is a mofo.

The NightForce NXS 3.5-15x will get you to 1000yds just fine but if you're wanting something with a higher magnification, look at the 5.5-22x with an NP-R1 reticle.

A friendly piece of advice, take it or leave it; I'd suggest you do a lot of reading on here before asking anymore questions unless you have skin like leather and you can take the beating from other members. Just a thought.

</div></div>

 

[eleaf]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

I have many scopes from many brands. Here is what I like. All are FFP mil/mil scopes. I won't include low mag scopes in this list (1-4x or similar).

<span style="font-weight: bold">Less than $1000 fixed:</span> Super Sniper 10x HD. The Super Snipers are hard to beat. They are EXCELLENT, built like a tank, and the CS is top notch. If I were looking at a fixed 10x (and 10x is all you need to shoot steel at 1000 yards), the SS is the first and likely only stop I'd make.

If you're really on a budget, the Bushnell Elite 3200 10x mil/mil from Midway is a GREAT buy. It is much better than its price tag would have you believe.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Less than $1000 Adjustable:</span> Bushnell Elite 4200 3-12x44 ffp mil/mil. This scope is fantastic, and may be the best overall value to be had in tactical scopes, especially at the closeout prices you can find them for right now. They have many of the "big boy" features like ffp and mil reticle with mil knobs, and are built well. Look up Lowlight's video review of this scope. He literally blows it up and it keeps on ticking.

<span style="font-weight: bold">$1000-$2000:</span> IOR Valdada 3.5-18x50 ffp mil/mil. This scope is fantastic and should be considered the entry point for high end optics. The glass is INCREDIBLE and has all of the features one could want. FFP, mil/mil, etc. The turrets are GREAT. The reticle (MP-8) is the best I've seen. Digital illumination with auto-off. Secondary zero settings. The list goes on. Do yourself a favor and check these out. They are great.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Above $2000:</span> I have very limited experience with scopes in this range. I've peeked through some very high end stuff (S&B), but never actually used one. That said, there is a reason, and it's because the Nightforce F1 is an AWESOME scope. It has many great features, and is built like a tank. I don't need to extoll the virtues of NF. They're all over this board.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

Sounds like the scope you have now might not be that bad which model of Ziess scope is it. As far as I can tell Zeiss doesn’t make a 4-20x. If you really want a scope with more magnification for under or around $1000 new your best bet is the new SIII SS Sightrons with matching turrets and reticule. They make a 10-50x scope which should be great as a target scope. There aren’t that many ranges with are 1000 yards, and an AR-10 in .308 isn’t really the right rifle for actually competing at those ranges. Most of the people here have different needs then the competitive shooter.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Need help and advice to pick the right scope!?

Maybe I should have mentioned that I bought the 5.5-22X because the dealer made me a deal that I couldn't refuse. Given a choice, I would have gone with the 3.5-18X. I very rarely use my scope at 22X. All of that magnification is a sword that cuts both ways.

I went shooting this past weekend. It was a nice and cool 40* out. The range was wet due to the rain the night before. The sun came out blaring at around noon and I couldn't believe the mirage I was getting in the scope at 22X. I couldn't see anything. Well, almost.

There are at least a few good scopes out there. The best advise I can give, regardless of brand, is this. You want a scope with good glass that is built well. Having a scope that is rated to take a pounding on a .50 BMG or .338 Lapua isn't a bad thing.

Never sacrifice glass quality for magnification. I'd rather have a superb 10X than a crap 20X. Never sacrifice glass quality to get doo dads, like an illuminated or tacticool reticle.

Of course, if you have the cash and resign yourself to sticking with quality (which means spending money) and stick with the Likes of IOR and Nightforce or S&B and Premiere (on the next step up), then it's really a matter of choices without the possibility of making the wrong choice.

One thing that you should research is whether you're going to want a first or second focal plane reticle. Personally, I like second focal plane reticles. Many prefer the reticle on the first focal plane.

You can also save yourself some math and possibly a bit of a headache by making sure that your reticle matches your turrets, if you go with some sort of ranging reticle. MOA/MOA or Mil/Mil.

How much money are you looking to spend anyway? If you want to stay under $1000, you may be well served by a Vortex PST. The examples I've seen thus far have been pretty nice. Nothing that would make me give up my Nightforce scopes, but certainly something I'd be interested in if my budget was more limited.