Need help from the .224 Masters.

[slayer 2c]

Ok, so first off let me begin by saying this is not my rifle!!! I am attempting to help a friend who has built a .224 Valkyrie. He has been running hand loaded Hornady 88 Eld's in it at about 2700fps with sub m.o.a groups about .75 inch groups. My issue came up when listening to one of the pod casts from Frank about his JP and the speeds he was getting with factory American gunner ammo. He said something like 2900, which got me to thinking, and then doing some research on loads and powders and bullets. I'm finding that his barrel is a 7.5 twist, when I put all the bullet info into the berger calculator for the hornady 75, 80, and 88 ELD's all of them seem wrong for his barrel.

So my question finally, what are you guys shooting? What Twist rate? FPS? Should we change bullets for him? The 8o vld's say will work in his barrel but the BC is lower than any of the hornadys

 

[brcook03]

Frank's JP barrel should be a 7 twist, not 7.5. The American Eagle load that Frank is shooting is a 75gr TMJ and 2900 sounds about right for his barrel length. If the rifle in question is sub-MOA with the 88gr ELD right now, then why change it?

You can look at 80gr ELD's and 77gr TMK. I've shot both and found good accuracy nodes with a couple of different powders and you should be able to push velocities higher if that is what you are looking for. 82gr Bergers also shot well. I have both 6.5 and 7 twist barrels.

 

[Olen_4504]

24"
1:6.5
factory 90g SMK
2708 FPS
just under 1 MOA @ 100y

 

[lennyo3034]

Where does one find these pod casts?

 

[Constructor]

Ok, so first off let me begin by saying this is not my rifle!!! I am attempting to help a friend who has built a .224 Valkyrie. He has been running hand loaded Hornady 88 Eld's in it at about 2700fps with sub m.o.a groups about .75 inch groups. My issue came up when listening to one of the pod casts from Frank about his JP and the speeds he was getting with factory American gunner ammo. He said something like 2900, which got me to thinking, and then doing some research on loads and powders and bullets. I'm finding that his barrel is a 7.5 twist, when I put all the bullet info into the berger calculator for the hornady 75, 80, and 88 ELD's all of them seem wrong for his barrel.

So my question finally, what are you guys shooting? What Twist rate? FPS? Should we change bullets for him? The 8o vld's say will work in his barrel but the BC is lower than any of the hornadys

What length is the barrel? The fastest I have heard of is an 80gr at 3000 out of a 24" barrel. A 20 " will be 100fps slower. An 88gr bullet will be apx 100fps slower than an 80. Factory ammo will likely be 100fps slower than max handloads. If your friend has a 20" barrel I would say it is close to what it should be but, barrels with different rifling designs and of different makes will produce different velocity.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Where does one find these pod casts?

They are on the "PodBean" app.

 

[Afkirby]

Also in the iTunes podcast app as well

 

[spife7980]

Where does one find these pod casts?

https://theeverydaysniper.podbean.com/

 

[slayer 2c]

Thank you all!!! Good information and that is what I need. Im going to look into the Bergers and the Smk's all the eld's seem too long to make good stabilization.

Constructor the barrel is 22"

 

[Constructor]

Thank you all!!! Good information and that is what I need. Im going to look into the Bergers and the Smk's all the eld's seem too long to make good stabilization.

Constructor the barrel is 22"

A 7 twist barrel will stabilize the 75, 80 and 88ELD, the tips are plastic and the CG of the bullet is further back than it appears. A 7 twist will stabilize the 80 Bergers and 80SMK easy and the 90SMK at the velocity the Valkyrie can push them. A 7 twist 223 isn't fast enough to stabilize the 90smk.
One big problem at this time is the jump to the lands, you have to load pretty long.

 

[slayer 2c]

A 7 twist barrel will stabilize the 75, 80 and 88ELD, the tips are plastic and the CG of the bullet is further back than it appears. A 7 twist will stabilize the 80 Bergers and 80SMK easy and the 90SMK at the velocity the Valkyrie can push them. A 7 twist 223 isn't fast enough to stabilize the 90smk.
One big problem at this time is the jump to the lands, you have to load pretty long.

Ok, his is a 7.5 22" still ok?

 

[Lowlight]

I ran my JP Rifle with a 22" Barrel and the factory 88gr going 2730fps

The results, top 15 at the Guardian Long Range Match

The 75gr Stuff was 2930fps and accuracy was superb. The only issue I saw with it, the round falls apart in the wind after 600 yards. The 88gr is much more consistent and doesn't have the same wind issues until 800 yards. (750 is really the cutoff)

My 100-yard accuracy has been sub 5/8' for most of it, I only barely tried the 90 but will revisit it. I got the 88gr on Friday, hit the range Monday and the wind was 18-24 so my dope was not perfect but doable for the match. I was at the match on Friday of the same week and I was .2 off elevation on most targets. At 900 it was closer to .3 off.

I have not handloaded anything Valkyrie but would think with a decent powder 2750 to 2800 should be doable.

I am also using a 7 twist, and have not found it to be an issue, though most are going to 6.5 Twist for the heavier bullets.

 

[slayer 2c]

I ran my JP Rifle with a 22" Barrel and the factory 88gr going 2730fps

The results, top 15 at the Guardian Long Range Match

View attachment 6939000

The 75gr Stuff was 2930fps and accuracy was superb. The only issue I saw with it, the round falls apart in the wind after 600 yards. The 88gr is much more consistent and doesn't have the same wind issues until 800 yards. (750 is really the cutoff)

My 100-yard accuracy has been sub 5/8' for most of it, I only barely tried the 90 but will revisit it. I got the 88gr on Friday, hit the range Monday and the wind was 18-24 so my dope was not perfect but doable for the match. I was at the match on Friday of the same week and I was .2 off elevation on most targets. At 900 it was closer to .3 off.

I have not handloaded anything Valkyrie but would think with a decent powder 2750 to 2800 should be doable.

I am also using a 7 twist, and have not found it to be an issue, though most are going to 6.5 Twist for the heavier bullets.

Lowlight thank you for the response, I've been getting caught up on the podcast and your's is really what has us thinking!!! Do you think hes ok with a 7.5 Twist and the 88's?

 

[flyer]

I'm not saying you are wrong about the 7.5" twist but I don't know why anyone would make a .224 Valkyrie barrel with that twist. Shooting heavies is the point.

 

[slayer 2c]

I can't tell you why, I just know that's what he has.

My fear to be honest is that it is wrong.

The post above from Frank has me even more worried. He built it to go long, we do a local match every other month out to 1000ish and its having a hard time reaching. What Frank says above we've been noticing during the matches. He is good at our local range which is out to 600 but any further and the hits are soft if at all. Now let me state that we are in no way of Franks caliber of shooters (Not yet, MHSD classes next summer) but I was hoping it was us, and worrying it was the rifle/bullet/something. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can to help my buddy and the hide is where I always find it

 

[Lowlight]

No the twist is wrong as noted,

7 is probably the minimum with many opting for the 6.5 for heavies

He might want to try the Federal 60gr varmint stuff and see

 

[slayer 2c]

Thanks Boss!!

 

[davsco]

I ran my JP Rifle with a 22" Barrel and the factory 88gr going 2730fps

The results, top 15 at the Guardian Long Range Match

great shooting! you mind saying how far you shot out to there? any issues spotting hits or misses >800yds?

 

[Lowlight]

Shot to 1000 yards, two stages I recall beyond 800 yards.

Spotting can be tough but they had cameras at 800, 900, 1000.

I have shot to 1125 and spotting hits is even harder. The 1125 yard target on my range rings loud, no ring from the Valkyrie

 

[Constructor]

Ok, his is a 7.5 22" still ok?

If the barrel is a 7.5 twist it will shoot 80 Bergers, 75 and 80 ELDs and any bullet shorter. I have been shooting those bullets(80 amax) in a Krieger 7.7 twist for almost 10 years. If it was me I would concentrate on the 80 ELD if you can get close enough to the lands to get decent accuracy. If you can't get close enough to the lands with the eld then try the 80 Berger.

 

[Subwrx300]

[Edited duplicate photo]

Really don't like contradicting posts (especially not @Lowlight ! ) however, I have 1000+ rounds through a 7.5T. If your buddy has a Rainer 1-7.5"T, then we shoot the same barrel. I have been shooting the 88ELD (Handloads) exclusively for the last 500 rounds through the rifle. It is stabilized just fine out to 1060 for me; here is 7 shot group at 1060yds:

That was running at 2780 but it runs fine at 2700-2740 also (I've been testing lower node and hitting .5-.75moa at 400yds). Here is 2720FPS 100yd 10shot group:

While the bullet (ELD) is long, using the Miller formula will show you Marginal stability at best however, you need to adjust for the fact that the plastic tip is less dense (Miller formula is based on all metal projectile. If you use copper length of 1.1 at 88gr, you will find it to be fine. Anything over 1.4 is good. I ran calculation at 1000ft down to 0 degrees and still within decent stability for our twist rates.

The 90 SMK however is too long for the 7.5T and tends to be a bit iffy past 300-400yards. It is a 1.3sg at best in warm weather and gets to 1.1 near freezing.

As @Lowlight says, believe the bullet: take it to the longest range you can normally shoot on a calm day and try it. If you see key holing or erratic flight/impact, you have your answer.

 

[slayer 2c]

Seriously thank you guys. We're gonna try them all. Hes got 75,80,82,88's all coming. We'll figure it out