Well I've got myself a mauser K98 that I was hoping that I could make look all nice and new and shiny again and also turn it into a sniper rifle reproduction. Well like the title says I need help and I'm hoping someone knows of a gunsmith in Michigan that I could take it to to have it fixed up for me. Cost is a bit of an issue if it's getting into more than I paid for the whole set-up, but if it's going to cost that much I might just wait until I graduate and can actually afford to have it done. So, basically what I'm looking to have done is have the scope mount reattached properly and maybe have a few other things checked out while it's there too. The whole problem with this is that the mount holes are misaligned in the receiver so it doesn't bolt on straight, which obviously means that the scope doesn't sit straight, which means my bullets don't make the pretty holes in the paper that I would like them to. It's very sad and I want to keep it vintage looking so hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction.
- Thread starter meyersa88
- Start date
What is the problem when you shot the rifle? Are you 100% it is the scope mount and not the scope or the barrel?
Once you have drilled the receiver it may not be so easy to weld them and redrill new holes - depends on how far off you are on the first effort.
What type of mount are you looking at using? If it is LSR or SSR you may be able to shim either the part that attaches to the side wall or the legs of the mount itself to compensate?
Either way... correctly aligning the scope to the bore and drilling ain't as easy as some people might have you believe.
It would be well worth calling Ed Silva at Miltech for a chat if you want it done well.
Good luck!
Once you have drilled the receiver it may not be so easy to weld them and redrill new holes - depends on how far off you are on the first effort.
What type of mount are you looking at using? If it is LSR or SSR you may be able to shim either the part that attaches to the side wall or the legs of the mount itself to compensate?
Either way... correctly aligning the scope to the bore and drilling ain't as easy as some people might have you believe.
It would be well worth calling Ed Silva at Miltech for a chat if you want it done well.
Good luck!
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The problem is is that the holes are so far off, I'm talking multiple degrees/visibly off, that the mount doesn't have the amount of travel required to correct the misalignment. The mount is an LSR mount. If I had access to a mill I could modify the mount to work but I don't so I'm just looking to have the work done professionally and have it done and fixed.
I was looking at miltech's website and it doesn't give any information on there about gunsmithing services.
I talked to the guy that was linked in the gunbroker post above and this is what I got.
"address for rifle....all i can do, is look at it and tell you what it would cost for me to fix when receive.... like said...i know some tricks to fix it, but cant tell how much til see what have to do
NOTE:
when bringing firearm to post office and they ask if anything dangerous, (simply state no)... they are asking if it's flammable,
liquid or explosive of which it is not......all you are required to do is make sure the bolt is not in the receiver when ship, as it needs to be disassembled...
IE: bolt out of receiver for shipment so as if was loaded it would not go off......lastly since i have a 01 type FFL it is perfectly legal to send gun to me and me
back to you (as you are the owner)...
after shipped send me an email so as know to expect
please let me know email received..."
I talked to the guy that was linked in the gunbroker post above and this is what I got.
"address for rifle....all i can do, is look at it and tell you what it would cost for me to fix when receive.... like said...i know some tricks to fix it, but cant tell how much til see what have to do
NOTE:
when bringing firearm to post office and they ask if anything dangerous, (simply state no)... they are asking if it's flammable,
liquid or explosive of which it is not......all you are required to do is make sure the bolt is not in the receiver when ship, as it needs to be disassembled...
IE: bolt out of receiver for shipment so as if was loaded it would not go off......lastly since i have a 01 type FFL it is perfectly legal to send gun to me and me
back to you (as you are the owner)...
after shipped send me an email so as know to expect
please let me know email received..."
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Are you talking windage, elevation or both?
What scope are you using, is it a vintage ZF39 type or something else?
Have you tried to zero at 25yds?
How does the rifle perform with irons at the same distance?
Have you tried compensating with internal adjustment on the scope or is it maxed out already?
Just drilling the nuts out of the receiver isn't a great idea....the actual amount you would likely need to move it to fit is likely to be pretty small even if at the target end it seems like a lot. Welding up the holes and then redrilling in the weld is somethng I have always been warned off.
I'd caution you doing anything until you have a plan for checking the alignment of the scope/mount with the bore and seeing exactly what you need to change to get it right....otherwise you'll just risk junking another Mauser.
Even if you can't afford to go to Ed Silva, use the phone number on his website and have a chat...he's a great guy, knows the guts of these conversions and is very helpful. Chances are he's seen and done exactly what you may need.
Elevation and windage are both off. POI is low and to the left of POA. Doesn't hit paper at 25. It's great with irons. Scope only has elevation adjustment for 100m-1000m. When I was referring to milling, I was referring to milling the mount.... Not the receiver.
Well...good news is it shoots with irons!
How low and left is POI at 25yds?
With regards to your comment on the scope adjustment. I think you are referring to the external markings? IS it an old Zeiss ZF39 type or repro thereof?
This is different to the internal adjustment. Do you know what this is on your scope? Do you know how to slip the scale on your turrets to make the most of the internal adjustment?
Are you maxed out on windage on the mount?
If you are maxed out on internal adjustment, I would suggest that you shim the leg of the scope mount to regain the necessary internal adjustment
How low and left is POI at 25yds?
With regards to your comment on the scope adjustment. I think you are referring to the external markings? IS it an old Zeiss ZF39 type or repro thereof?
This is different to the internal adjustment. Do you know what this is on your scope? Do you know how to slip the scale on your turrets to make the most of the internal adjustment?
Are you maxed out on windage on the mount?
If you are maxed out on internal adjustment, I would suggest that you shim the leg of the scope mount to regain the necessary internal adjustment
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I have a carl ziess jena 6x scope. It is not the zf39. I have no idea what internal adjustments you are taking about... All my scope has is a bullet drop compensator. The mount has adjustments on it but they are no where near enough to fix the actually mounting error that I'm referring to.
OK, firstly I'd recommend you don't even consider a gunsmith or, God forbid, a garage mend until you get to know what is possible with the scope and mount. Not trying to teach you to suck eggs and, if you know all this, just ignore but maybe it'll help.....
The base/mount....if it is an LSR.......should look like this:
External:
Internal
There are two parts to both the SSR and later LSR:
1) The base should be fixed to the receiver by pins, screws and locking screws as you can see. There is no (or at least should not be any)adjustment on this part of the assembly. If you have "wiggle room" then most likely you have oversized holes and the mount will simply work lose unless you loctite it to the receiver.
2) The mount should be a three part assembly consisting of the dovetailed lower section and two legs with rings which are dovetailed and screwed into the lower section. This has coarse windage adjustment on the rear leg either made by turning opposing screws to give left/right adjustment or by using a spanner/wrench on a bolt located in the same position as the large screws you can see on the rear leg in the top pic (which mechanism you have will depend on whether it is an original or close copy).
This offers a large range of adjustment and, given the extremely small movements needed at the receiver end of business to have a large effect on target, it is hard to believe that it would not have more than enough to compensate for even the most ham-fisted attempt to mount the base.
If not...shim the front or rear of the base to move left or right. This is not a great fix as it means you won't have the optimal metal-to-metal contact along the length of the mount and receiver wall...but short of machining the mount as you suggest, it may be your next best option.
When making windage adjustments on this mount, make sure the screw beneath the front leg is just loose enough to allow the front ring/leg to rotate or you will end up with problems related to stress/distortion of the scope tube...and remember when you are done adjusting, to retighten.
When I refer to shimming the legs, a gunsmith should be able to insert shims under the legs (front or rear) to move the scope elevation in the necessary direction if you have run out of internal adjustment in the scope.
However...before doing any of this...look at your scope:
ZF39 is the generic model type and was available in Zielvier (x4), Zielsechs (x6) and Zielacht (x8) configurations. Provided yours is an original, the top adjustment was the same on all of them. If it is a repro..check before proceeding.
The scope turret:
There are three adjustments can be made on this scope. From the top down:
1) The rotary bar control is for focus
2) The knurled and numbered thumbwheel is for elevation (with an additional side mounted locking screw to secure) and has a limited range of travel. The actual available travel/adjustment inside the scope is greater than the wheel can access.
3) Internal adjustment and slipping the scale can be accessed by the three screws on top of the turret.
Once you have run out of room (up or down) on the thumbwheel, carefully loosen (BUT DO NOT REMOVE!!) the three top screws. Loosen off the knurled screw that secures the thumbwheel, The elevation thumbwheel should now be disengaged from the internal mechanism allowing it to move freely. Simply move the wheel to the opposite end of the numbered scale, retighten all the screws and you should find you can continue to move the reticle in the required direction. If not, it means you have got to the end of the internal adjustment and then shimming the necessary leg becomes the best option.
A translation of the ZF39 manual is published in the second volume of Richard Law's "Backbone of the Wehrmacht" - beg, borrow (but don't steal) a copy and scan/copy those pages - getting your head around old scopes can be "interesting"
If this rifle were mine and the hacksmith who attempted to do the conversion has screwed it up so badly that using the available mount/scope adjustment or shimming can't fix it, I'd take the mount off and enjoy the rifle for what it is - a 70 year old rifle that shoots well with irons. Come back to getting it scoped when you have the money to get it done properly.
And by "properly" I mean a combination of machining the base to align with the bore and, if also necessary, shimming (or possibly machining?) the legs for vertical alignment to the bore...also, bear in mind that you may need to lap the rings if you shim/machine the legs.
I would not, under any curcumstances, be tempted to start opening more holes in the receiver....EVER! You're pretty much stuck with that and have to work from that baseline.
One thing all my projects has taught me is they always cost more time, money and effort to get right than you'd get back for the finished article were you to ever sell it. And that is using a gunsmith who doesn't get it wrong too often.......
Putting things right from a position of complete cock-up can be like trying to climb Everest in a tu-tu and ballet shoes! Best to accept when you are doomed from the start.....
Good luck!
The base/mount....if it is an LSR.......should look like this:
External:
Internal
There are two parts to both the SSR and later LSR:
1) The base should be fixed to the receiver by pins, screws and locking screws as you can see. There is no (or at least should not be any)adjustment on this part of the assembly. If you have "wiggle room" then most likely you have oversized holes and the mount will simply work lose unless you loctite it to the receiver.
2) The mount should be a three part assembly consisting of the dovetailed lower section and two legs with rings which are dovetailed and screwed into the lower section. This has coarse windage adjustment on the rear leg either made by turning opposing screws to give left/right adjustment or by using a spanner/wrench on a bolt located in the same position as the large screws you can see on the rear leg in the top pic (which mechanism you have will depend on whether it is an original or close copy).
This offers a large range of adjustment and, given the extremely small movements needed at the receiver end of business to have a large effect on target, it is hard to believe that it would not have more than enough to compensate for even the most ham-fisted attempt to mount the base.
If not...shim the front or rear of the base to move left or right. This is not a great fix as it means you won't have the optimal metal-to-metal contact along the length of the mount and receiver wall...but short of machining the mount as you suggest, it may be your next best option.
When making windage adjustments on this mount, make sure the screw beneath the front leg is just loose enough to allow the front ring/leg to rotate or you will end up with problems related to stress/distortion of the scope tube...and remember when you are done adjusting, to retighten.
When I refer to shimming the legs, a gunsmith should be able to insert shims under the legs (front or rear) to move the scope elevation in the necessary direction if you have run out of internal adjustment in the scope.
However...before doing any of this...look at your scope:
ZF39 is the generic model type and was available in Zielvier (x4), Zielsechs (x6) and Zielacht (x8) configurations. Provided yours is an original, the top adjustment was the same on all of them. If it is a repro..check before proceeding.
The scope turret:
There are three adjustments can be made on this scope. From the top down:
1) The rotary bar control is for focus
2) The knurled and numbered thumbwheel is for elevation (with an additional side mounted locking screw to secure) and has a limited range of travel. The actual available travel/adjustment inside the scope is greater than the wheel can access.
3) Internal adjustment and slipping the scale can be accessed by the three screws on top of the turret.
Once you have run out of room (up or down) on the thumbwheel, carefully loosen (BUT DO NOT REMOVE!!) the three top screws. Loosen off the knurled screw that secures the thumbwheel, The elevation thumbwheel should now be disengaged from the internal mechanism allowing it to move freely. Simply move the wheel to the opposite end of the numbered scale, retighten all the screws and you should find you can continue to move the reticle in the required direction. If not, it means you have got to the end of the internal adjustment and then shimming the necessary leg becomes the best option.
A translation of the ZF39 manual is published in the second volume of Richard Law's "Backbone of the Wehrmacht" - beg, borrow (but don't steal) a copy and scan/copy those pages - getting your head around old scopes can be "interesting"
If this rifle were mine and the hacksmith who attempted to do the conversion has screwed it up so badly that using the available mount/scope adjustment or shimming can't fix it, I'd take the mount off and enjoy the rifle for what it is - a 70 year old rifle that shoots well with irons. Come back to getting it scoped when you have the money to get it done properly.
And by "properly" I mean a combination of machining the base to align with the bore and, if also necessary, shimming (or possibly machining?) the legs for vertical alignment to the bore...also, bear in mind that you may need to lap the rings if you shim/machine the legs.
I would not, under any curcumstances, be tempted to start opening more holes in the receiver....EVER! You're pretty much stuck with that and have to work from that baseline.
One thing all my projects has taught me is they always cost more time, money and effort to get right than you'd get back for the finished article were you to ever sell it. And that is using a gunsmith who doesn't get it wrong too often.......
Putting things right from a position of complete cock-up can be like trying to climb Everest in a tu-tu and ballet shoes! Best to accept when you are doomed from the start.....
Good luck!
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