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Need help putting together 22LR AR15

N

Nivium

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 10, 2020
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So I've been building my hunting and precision ARs for a long time, but have never messed around with rimfire outside of a 10/22. I want to put together a high end 22LR AR trainer/varminter for use with a sparrow suppressor, with the priority being precision.

I really don't know enough to even start gathering the goods. Does everything go together like a typical ar15 if I want to use a typical ar15 upper and lower? Is the only difference the 22LR bolt adapter and magazines? Is the gas block ultimately the same? I assume there is no buffer system and the buffer tube is there only to support the stock.

In terms of components: What is a the most accurate high-end barrel/adapter combo? If I do a certain combo, am I limited to certain mags? I want to go 16", but am open to being called stupid for that decision. I have a decent amount of quality AR parts to use, so I'd rather not buy a complete upper when I can roll one up myself, but you may also advise against that since I am a rimfire novice.

Thanks in advance
 
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If your priority is precision, I wouldn't recommend building an AR-22. They are a lot of fun for run-n-gun type steel matches, but precision is a pipe dream. Everyone has a different standard for "precision", and an AR-22 will be 1.5-2.5 MOA @ 100 yards under the best possible conditions. You will be able to hit medium sized steel targets no problem (4" targets is what my local club puts at 100 yards for matches), but a KYL rack set at 100 yards will be very difficult, if not impossible on the small side of the rack.

Upper and lower are the same as a standard AR-15...only difference is the BCG, barrel and magazine. If you already have an AR-15, all you need to build is the upper. Don't need a gas block, it's a blow-back operated bolt. Buffer system is built into the bolt carrier group.

Nordic Components builds an excellent upper. https://nordiccomp.com/product-category/22lr/

Taccom is a good place to start, they have nice barrels. https://taccom3g.com/product-category/22-components-and-accessories/for-ar-15-22lr/

CMMG has some 22lr complete uppers if you want a quick fix. https://cmmg.com/upper-receivers

I've been down this road. Honestly, just go buy a S&W M&P15-22 with a threaded barrel.
 
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Wore my Tactical Solutions 22lr upper out, 17,000 some odd rounds. Rebuilt the upper with a CMMG bolt group and barrel, runs just as good and should last longer. I really like my Nordic upper's very similar to JP's 22lr. All these are Red dot on steel rifles. Blackdog mags. Mega Machine lowers.
 
mrwug said:
<cough>Tippman</cough>
Click to expand...
The Tippman is nice, but I worry about being able to find parts in the future. And the mags are proprietary...I prefer the CMMG pattern or the S&W M&P15-22 pattern...you can find those at most gun shops.

Black Dog Machine makes a great magazine, and the only 50-rd drum on the market I've ever seen run flawlessly for a 22lr.

If you can find a used Tactical Solutions Kestrel upper, they are great. A friend of mine has one and it runs like a champ, eats anything.
 
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AZ Dan said:
If your priority is precision, I wouldn't recommend building an AR-22. They are a lot of fun for run-n-gun type steel matches, but precision is a pipe dream. Everyone has a different standard for "precision", and an AR-22 will be 1.5-2.5 MOA @ 100 yards under the best possible conditions. You will be able to hit medium sized steel targets no problem (4" targets is what my local club puts at 100 yards for matches), but a KYL rack set at 100 yards will be very difficult, if not impossible on the small side of the rack.

Upper and lower are the same as a standard AR-15...only difference is the BCG, barrel and magazine. If you already have an AR-15, all you need to build is the upper. Don't need a gas block, it's a blow-back operated bolt. Buffer system is built into the bolt carrier group.

Taccom is a good place to start, they have nice barrels. https://taccom3g.com/product-category/22-components-and-accessories/for-ar-15-22lr/

CMMG has some 22lr complete uppers if you want a quick fix. https://cmmg.com/upper-receivers

I've been down this road. Honestly, just go buy a S&W M&P15-22 with a threaded barrel.
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I appreciate the advice, but I definitely want to put it on a high-capacity platform. When I say precision, I mean the best precision I can get out of an ar or similar platform. I also understand that compass lake rimfire barrels will sit between .5 and 1 moa at 100 yards pretty easily, and while I've heard that the S&W M&P15-22 is awesome, I don't think it is going to be there in terms of the quality I'm looking for. I've also looked at some of the nordic setups like JP, which they say has excellent precision in the ar platform, and I think that is compatible with black dog high capacity mags.

And I'll check out Taccom--only ever heard of them concerning their lightweight buffer system on a 223. Good to know they are g2g on the rimfire game. Thanks
 
My Nordic 22lr upper has been pretty reliable. The issues I’ve had were with mags. The blackdog mags with polymer feed lips work great. The ones with the steel feed lips hang and plenty of failure to feeds
 
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So is any 22lr ar15 drop in barrel compatible with any bolt adapter? In other words, could I get a CLE barrel and stick it with an adapter that will accept blackdog mags?
 
Nivium said:
So I've been building my hunting and precision ARs for a long time, but have never messed around with rimfire outside of a 10/22. I want to put together a high end 22LR AR trainer/varminter for use with a sparrow suppressor, with the priority being precision.

I really don't know enough to even start gathering the goods. Does everything go together like a typical ar15 if I want to use a typical ar15 upper and lower? Is the only difference the 22LR bolt adapter and magazines? Is the gas block ultimately the same? I assume there is no buffer system and the buffer tube is there only to support the stock.

In terms of components: What is a the most accurate high-end barrel/adapter combo? If I do a certain combo, am I limited to certain mags? I want to go 16", but am open to being called stupid for that decision. I have a decent amount of quality AR parts to use, so I'd rather not buy a complete upper when I can roll one up myself, but you may also advise against that since I am a rimfire novice.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
As has been noted, if you are looking for precision, AR-22s, and .22LR semis in general, are a rabbit hole that I would avoid - and I have gone down the hole a few times.

To your questions, AR-22 uppers shot suppressed put lots fouling back into the BCG, which quickly degrades functionality and accuracy. I have gone down that road and no longer shoot my .22 semis with cans.

Next, AR-22 uppers have no gas block, they are blowback operated. All AR-22 uppers I know of have a recoil spring in the BCG, so the buffer spring in the stock I do not believe is ever actuated. So, if you are looking to use a bunch of AR centerfire parts for an AR-22 upper, you need to do some more homework.

Black Dog mags are widely used and well regarded for the JP/Nordic uppers. Different mags I believe are indicated for other uppers configurations, such as CLE.

16" bbl is fine as most or all of the .22LR pow gets burned up in this bbl length.

Lastly, as with all .22s, ammo is an issue. My .22 semis (JP and Volquartsen) prefer copper plated HV ammo, which is inherently less accurate than match ammo. Lubed match ammo like Center-X tends to gunk up the chambers and thus interfere with smooth chambering, particularly in hot weather.

Good luck. As I said it is a rabbit hole.
 
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Starbuck said:
As has been noted, if you are looking for precision, AR-22s, and .22LR semis in general, are a rabbit hole that I would avoid - and I have gone down the hole a few times.

Good luck. As I said it is a rabbit hole.
Click to expand...
I think you meant a black hole...a place where money goes and desired accuracy never escapes.
 
I have heard good things about the tippmanns. Put an order in for one myself today.
 
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I have an AR 22 that I built that is a sub MOA gun. Seekins Precission billet upper and lower, CMMG bolt, Hyperfire 24C trigger set at 1.5 LBS and a 16" Clint Beyer barrel. It can be done but it is not cheap.
 
Starbuck said:
As has been noted, if you are looking for precision, AR-22s, and .22LR semis in general, are a rabbit hole that I would avoid - and I have gone down the hole a few times.

To your questions, AR-22 uppers shot suppressed put lots fouling back into the BCG, which quickly degrades functionality and accuracy. I have gone down that road and no longer shoot my .22 semis with cans.

Next, AR-22 uppers have no gas block, they are blowback operated. All AR-22 uppers I know of have a recoil spring in the BCG, so the buffer spring in the stock I do not believe is ever actuated. So, if you are looking to use a bunch of AR centerfire parts for an AR-22 upper, you need to do some more homework.

Black Dog mags are widely used and well regarded for the JP/Nordic uppers. Different mags I believe are indicated for other uppers configurations, such as CLE.

16" bbl is fine as most or all of the .22LR pow gets burned up in this bbl length.

Lastly, as with all .22s, ammo is an issue. My .22 semis (JP and Volquartsen) prefer copper plated HV ammo, which is inherently less accurate than match ammo. Lubed match ammo like Center-X tends to gunk up the chambers and thus interfere with smooth chambering, particularly in hot weather.

Good luck. As I said it is a rabbit hole.
Click to expand...
So true. Your gun is gonna want something like CCI mini mags to cycle reliably. But that same ammo is never as good as our standard velocity target ammo. Unless someone who has some secret sauce ammo that cycles they gun, is not too dirty, and is accurate at 100y. Those nordic uppers look good tho.

I have a CMMG 22 upper with 9in barrel. Great workmanship. To be honest though, I have probably only put about 100 rounds through in early stages of the "crisis." The upper functions very well...not a jam o matic. I have not shot it at 100 yards yet though so I can't comment on that.

I have searched high and low for accuracy discussions on the web regarding the CMMG upper accuracy....I haven't found a peep. There are YouTube videos though...everything looks great there.

I know you want to build from scratch...but do consider a built upper so you can keep from getting more grey hairs jk.
 
I say roll your own!
 

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Here’s another. I put mine together using the barrel from my CLE .22LR trainer service rifle. I acquired a DD rail and an upper and put her together. It’s fun to shoot with a scope and shoots really well at 100 yds.
E01792EB-1B04-4D1D-B5A5-8E3A464E7DA2.jpeg
 
So it's looking like a CLE kit might be the best and easiest here for my desired results. Here's the link: https://compasslake.com/product/22-dedicated-tactical-rifle-barrel-with-kit/

Anyone have any experience with this or something similar? Reliability? I imagine I would just throw it on any old upper with M4 ramps, add a handguard and boom, it's a dedicated 22lr upper without a false chamber. It looks like this limits me to 10 round magazines, but blackdog has mags for the M-261 and I can't see why they wouldn't work. Any input there?
 
Are the dedicated 22lr uppers put together the same way in regards to the barrel/barrel nut area? As in, can you put whatever handguard on you want?
 
Buy a stripped upper of your choice. Get the cmmg bolt group and magazine. Order a barrel from Beyer Barrels. I would also order the buffer pressure plug, bolt buffer, and charge handle insert from BoreBuddy.

Bolt Group, .22LR Dedicated, NO MAGAZINE | CMMG - AR 15 and AR 10 Builds and Parts

22LR Bolt Group for CMMG 22LR dedicated barrels and upper groups. All CMMG products are backed by our Lifetime Qualit
cmmg.com cmmg.com

Magazine, 22ARC, BLK, 25rd | CMMG - AR 15 and AR 10 Builds and Parts

CMMG 22LR magazine. 25 round capacity. Compatible with 22LR conversion kits and CMMG Mk4/mil-spec AR15 lower receiver
cmmg.com cmmg.com


borebuddy.com

22lr – BoreBuddy

borebuddy.com borebuddy.com

This is what I am running with an Aero upper and handguard. It runs great. My barrel is only 4.5", so not a setup for accuracy, but Beyer makes extremely high quality stuff and I am sure his longer barrels will be very accurate.

yrE8Vmv.jpg
 
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I notice the continued reference to black dog mags. Are they the best? Best for function, longevity, cost, all of the above?
Hope the OP doesn't mind my questions. I almost started a similar thread and am interested in the same info.
 
Austan said:
I notice the continued reference to black dog mags. Are they the best? Best for function, longevity, cost, all of the above?
Hope the OP doesn't mind my questions. I almost started a similar thread and am interested in the same info.
Click to expand...
No problem. I understand that blackdog mags are the best in terms of reliability
 
Austan said:
I notice the continued reference to black dog mags. Are they the best? Best for function, longevity, cost, all of the above?
Hope the OP doesn't mind my questions. I almost started a similar thread and am interested in the same info.
Click to expand...
I have 3 CMMG and 2 Black Dog 25rd mags and a Black Dog 50rd drum mag. They all work very well. The cmmg 25rd mags feel more solid and better built in my opinion. Black Dog also makes a speed loader for the 25rd mags that definitely makes life easier. The 50rd drum on the suppressed SBR makes anyone smile...super fun to shoot.
 
I have a first generation S&W 15-22 (no threaded barrel) I think I bought about 6 months after they first came out and it is a good shooter. Obviously not as accurate as a bolt gun but does outshoot my other .22 semi's (Savage, Marlin and an old model 63 Winchester)
 
TahoeDust said:
Why the gas block? Just curious.
Click to expand...

That .22 barrel came off my trainer service rifle meaning I still have a good Krieger 556 barrel from my service rifle , which I stopped doing years ago, if I ever want to fix up another “spr”I all ready have all the parts to do so.
 
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I've been searching for exactly what you're after for about 4 years now. I started with a Nordic. Accuracy was OK and it was relatively reliable. On the advice of another hide member, I next tried a conversion from Compass Lake. Accuracy was eventually pretty darn good, but it was very difficult to make reliable. I ended up having to remove 10% of the bolt mass and reducing the force on the recoil spring to get it to run. Sounds easy when I type it, but it took more than a year of dicking with it to get to that point. Finally, the magical day arrived and I had it shooting into 1 1/4" at 100 with SK Long range. It ran like a sewing machine. For 5 minutes. I had a squib and didn't know it. Send another round which knocked out the squib and bulged the barrel.

In disgust I started down path #3. My local smith ordered me a Shilen Ratchet blank and he's going to machine the breech to marry up with the CMMG conversions. I've run the CMMG uppers on full auto lowers and they are total sewing machines. I have high hopes that at the completion of this project I will finally reach my goal of a .22 AR with match level accuracy. We shall see.
 
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Look up keystone accuracy 22 builds , some pictures on here ( they quit building 22) he machined the breech end with a feed ramp to eliminate the adapter /collar so the bolt goes against the breech /barrel , if your machinist can do this it would probably help
 
TimK said:
I've been searching for exactly what you're after for about 4 years now. I started with a Nordic. Accuracy was OK and it was relatively reliable. On the advice of another hide member, I next tried a conversion from Compass Lake. Accuracy was eventually pretty darn good, but it was very difficult to make reliable. I ended up having to remove 10% of the bolt mass and reducing the force on the recoil spring to get it to run. Sounds easy when I type it, but it took more than a year of dicking with it to get to that point. Finally, the magical day arrived and I had it shooting into 1 1/4" at 100 with SK Long range. It ran like a sewing machine. For 5 minutes. I had a squib and didn't know it. Send another round which knocked out the squib and bulged the barrel.

In disgust I started down path #3. My local smith ordered me a Shilen Ratchet blank and he's going to machine the breech to marry up with the CMMG conversions. I've run the CMMG uppers on full auto lowers and they are total sewing machines. I have high hopes that at the completion of this project I will finally reach my goal of a .22 AR with match level accuracy. We shall see.
Click to expand...
So with compass lake, you got the 22 dedicated barrel with kit (https://compasslake.com/product/22-dedicated-tactical-rifle-barrel-with-kit/) and it wouldn't work reliably?
 
TahoeDust said:
Click to expand...
I see Beyer offers a 9 twist liner option for the ultralight target barrel. I expect this is for the 60 grain Aguilas and other subs and of no real benefit for running CCI ar tac and minimags.

Thoughts anyone?

@TimK Your story sounds like the several years I spent pouring money into 10/22 stlye rifles chasing a level of accuracy that was unrealistic but for 1 out of 10 outings.
 
Correct, my Compass Lake conversion wouldn't run. To be fair, it ran fine on the supersonic ammo it was probably designed for. Subsonic match ammo did not have enough energy to reliably cycle the action. I have a friend with one, and I swapped parts back and forth between them. His ran, mine didn't. I literally tried everything I could think of before hitting on the obvious idea of reducing the mass of the bolt. I'm convinced that if I ran into another one that wasn't reliable I could fix it in an hour now that I know what to do.
 
Why put something together and hope it does everything right. Buy a JP and not worry about anything
 
Sgeorge said:
Why put something together and hope it does everything right. Buy a JP and not worry about anything
Click to expand...
Do you have a JP upper/complete 22lr rifle? What subsonic match ammo do/have you run? Which barrel did you choose? What groups are you getting?
 
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68hoyt said:
Google the jp 22 upper review
Click to expand...
Then what? I'm seeing an alloutdoor review with a single (cherry picked) group showing and states it shoots the equivalent to his suped up 10/22's. There is an arfcom thread stating it's as good as a CLE. There is a thread from here showing actual groups which I will link here. Is there a particular review you are suggesting to read?

www.snipershide.com

my recent AR15-22LR build, JP barrel

I have been wanting a "precision" 22LR rifle for a while but I have been torn in which way to go by either an AR style or a 10-22 / bolt action. It was down to a Ruger American Rimfire Target model, going all out with a custom 10/22 or going with an AR style setup. I could not find much about...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
Keep reading , some are shooters and others were ok , there are quite a few reviews to read and make your own decision on wether or not to go jp ,,,, let us know what route you take
 
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I went down this road , made up my mind to buy the keystone and he quit making them , I didn’t want to do the cle as I have black dog mags already , read on the jp and didn’t feel lucky enough , lother Walther barrels no longer offer an 18” barrel but a person offered me there 18” lother walther built upper at a fare price so I went that route , I haven’t shot it yet
 
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68hoyt said:
I went down this road , made up my mind to buy the keystone and he quit making them , I didn’t want to do the cle as I have black dog mags already , read on the jp and didn’t feel lucky enough , lother Walther barrels no longer offer an 18” barrel but a person offered me there 18” lother walther built upper at a fare price so I went that route , I haven’t shot it yet
Click to expand...
Keep us posted. Would love to know how it goes
 
68hoyt said:
Keep reading , some are shooters and others were ok , there are quite a few reviews to read and make your own decision on wether or not to go jp ,,,, let us know what route you take
Click to expand...
I think my current plan is to go the CMMG route (RTB version) along with the bore buddy upgrades as suggested above. I want this to be as similar as possible to my 16 middy so the barrel chosen will be somewhat based on weight. Unlike the OP, precision is not my primary metric, but it's always near the top of the list. I'd be happy if it makes consistent hits on a 4" gong inside 200 yards. I'm looking at the Beyer (16" bull) as suggested but had previously looked at lothar walthers 16". The lw is decently heavy and may be what I need. I see a few others but don't much about them, mostly house brands and they do not mention OEMs.
Anyway. I don't want to take over Niviums thread so I'll refrain from further discussing my build. I greatly appreciate all the information passed along here.
 
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Peahi2 said:
Looks good! Tell us about this setup! Were there any bugaboos?
Click to expand...
It is a Seekins Precission billet upper and lower receiver with a Noveske NSR 15 hand guard and a Clint Beyer 18" barrel. It has a CMMG bolt and a Hiperfire 24c trigger set at 1.5 lbs. I am using a Booney Packer (I think that is what they are called) magazine adapter with SW 15/22 magazines. The buttstock is a Magpul Gen 1. There were zero bugaboos putting it together. It is very accurate with RWS and SK ammo and actually has zero problems cycling any 22 ammo I have fed it. Only problem is it was expensive as hell to build. The scope in the picture is a Mueller 8X32 but it now has a Vortex PST 6X24 Gen 1 sitting on it.
 
I love my fun-and-gun AR15/22.

But the word "precision" associates with it like Nancy Pelosi associates with "pro Second Amendment"
 
68hoyt said:
I haven’t shot it yet
Click to expand...
...how can you stand it? I'd love to hear how it does for you.

This comes up occasionally; as one who's been in this rabbit hole for awhile now I can offer some insight from my own experience and my own research. I don't have a JP/Nordic/Rock River Arms (all of which use the same bolt) but they are known for excellent reliability and better than average accuracy. Good luck finding one though. I read somewhere that RRA is like 6 mos out on 22LR uppers. I'm not sure about Nordic or JP. this is from the JPSM22 user manual: "From most high‐velocity ammunition, you can expect 2‐3 MOA and 1.5‐2 MOA out of less
expensive target‐ or match‐grade loads at 50 yards. However, the higher quality match loads may deliver MOA performance at 50 yards."

In my opinion, the easiest and most cost effective way to get into a very accurate 22LR is the CMMG Bolt (or RTB) and either a Beyer Barrel or Lothar Walther Barrel. The CMMG barrels will shoot well but I think you'll see better accuracy from those two I mentioned. The CMMG bolt uses a collar that slips over a barrel stub. The barrel, bolt, and magazines are the only components unique to an AR22. Everything else is the same. No gas block. The bolt itself cycles within the confines of the upper receiver but it pushes against the buffer to remain in place. There is a "pressure plug" that fits in front of the buffer and puts a little forward pressure on the bolt helping to keep everything in place.

Compass Lake Engineering offers the barrel and bolt combo. If you called him, I think he'll make any barrel length and profile you want. The bolt he uses is different than the CMMG (Ciener style) in that it's patterned off the M261 conversion bolts. These use different magazines than the Ciener style but they are available from Black Dog Magazine. I sincerely doubt you'd be disappointed if you went this route. CLE does not use a collar but the breech of the barrel is machined to accept the M261 bolt. Keystone accuracy does something very similar but with the CMMG bolt in lieu of the M261. But as mentioned above, he is not producing AR22 currently.

Then there's Kriss Defiance that uses 10/22 barrels. That'd be pretty cool as there are certainly more "really good" barrels on the market. That's all I know about them.

My first foray into AR22s was with Taccom3G. He made some 17" tension barrels that were awesome and used the CMMG (Ciener style) bolt with a collar of slightly different dimensions than CMMG. He moved away from 22LR for several years but is getting back into it and making 22LR products again. I think he's even offering that 17" tension barrel again though it's not offered threaded at the moment.

I also have the 2A Armament 22LR assembly as well as (2) tactical solutions 22LR uppers. These are great but not offered any longer. In the end, AR22 can be made to shoot very well but don't expect Vudoo level accuracy.
 
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