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Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

shooter308

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Fellows! I have a upcoming 400 yard target competition that is mainly for fun ith the place i work with good prizes but i am taking it VERY SERIOUS!!!! I will be using my Tactical 308 with Leupold Glass and my best RL-7 and Varget Handloads made for 100 yard shooting. I hope this is also good at 400??? ( I also have some good TAC and 4895 reloads ) ALL Loaded with 168 gr Moly A-maxs around OAL'd round 2.8-2.85 depending on what the powder will let me do. I'm pushing it around 2600-2650 FPS and think the bullet will drop around -34 in. ? Is that in the ball park ? I need some expert advice on shooting at this range and where i need to set my scope and what power i need to have it on while setting my rig up for the competition and leaving it there during the comp. I am very excited and WANT TO DO GOOD. I have a rifle that will shoot in the VERY low .3's easily and 5's easy on a bad windy day. The conditions will be hot 80-90 and mid day shoot. I hope i didnt leave any critical details out that you all need to help me but please do give me any advice that can help me achieve a good finish in this competition. MY EARS AND EYES ARE OPEN AND COUNTING ON THE BEST SHOOTERS I KNOW ON THE NET HERE
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

ALso i have a 1x10 bbl, Lapua Prepped brass, and curious what is the least powered scope i could win with up against 24 powers? If anyone knows anything better for this distance load wise that i might can try in the next day for too please let me know. But i can pull of a One Holer atleast 1 out of every Twenty or so 3 shot groups at 100 yd on a nice day. But 100 may be a world of diffence with this bolt gun that 400.
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

What size is the target? And what you shooting? Paper? Steel?

8.5 MOA should get you real close with that load.

Your scope should be on the power in which allows you to see the target and hit it. No set power. Doesn't matter if guys have 24x scopes if they can't hit the target. You can shoot 400 yards with a 1x red dot sight depending on target. Yes more power would allow you to see the target better and get a better aiming point to a point. What power is your scope?
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ALso i have a 1x10 bbl, Lapua Prepped brass, and curious what is the least powered scope i could win with up against 24 powers? If anyone knows anything better for this distance load wise that i might can try in the next day for too please let me know. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">But i can pull of a One Holer atleast 1 out of every Twenty or so 3 shot groups at 100 yd on a nice day</span></span>. But 100 may be a world of diffence with this bolt gun that 400. </div></div>

Best advise is to run your ballistic data based on the velocity you have, assuming that you chrono your load. If your load can make a one holer at 100 yards, then it should hold up to 400 yards, hopefully. Only way to tell is to shoot it at 400 yards and see how it does. Good luck.
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

tight groups at 100 yards does not always equate to good groups at distance. your looking at 5.5 to 6 MOA ups. Just shoot it for the experience and try not to look stupid doing it. Doping the wind will be fun. so go and have fun.

edited: pushing 2600, 8 might be right. It's been a long time since I shot 168's that slow. LOL
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

I work for DOD so I dont wanna really say on here its not open to the public not trying to be ugly thought ROBOT. It should be pretty large targets I would say the standard for 100 yards matches or better. What do you think about magnification??? leave my trusty 14x on it or or put the 32X on the rifle????
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

well i have had good luck around 2600-2650. I sent my leupold VAri X III scope back to the manufacture to put the tall M1 turrets on it and adjust it for a 308 with the mildot reticle and set up for 168 gr bullets and 2600-2650 velocity and that's why i stay around that velocity i have pushed much faster but i dont have a reason to burn more powder for less accuracy and worry about damaging $60/100 Lapua Cases trying to max it out. YOU know???? I can get a groups in the .6's with 1600 fps 210-220 gr lead bullets i pour out of my long nose bore ridin Lyman mold so velocity is always so IMPORTANT TO ME ATLEAST.
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

Shooter 308 I was reading your post when i saw you use a stihl 650! My god what are you cuttin out there?
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brokenshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooter 308 I was reading your post when i saw you use a stihl 650! My god what are you cuttin out there? </div></div>

I DO some tree work on the side or used too. Those 16 " oaks in peoples front yard or thick pines rooting all over where i want a plot has to have a cutter. LOL
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

Leave your 14x in place whatever you do. The higher mag scope will have so much mirage in the heat and humidity where you live you will be lucky to shoot 10 inch groups.

I am not shitting you a bit. Leave the 14 in place and if you have the ability to turn it down to 8x or so that would be my choice. That gun with that load should shoot at least 2 1/2 inches. I don't know the quality of your competition but your average shooter hasn't done nearly as much work as far as ammo etc then you have.

Just relax and have a good time. Do the same thing each time and whatever you do don't try and get fancy or try something new. Just shoot the way you already know how to shoot. If your gun and you can have already shot .3 to .5's groups you you will be just fine. Most people think 1 inch at 100 is really some shooting! Good luck friend! Jeff
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

I think I saw a recommendation about a particular comeup. My guess, it's really close.

The most important thing you can do to help yourself is CALM DOWN!

Unless lives are at stake, intensity such as what I read in your post is excessive. Right now, you're sounding a bit like your own worst opponent.

Start with your expectations. Pick ones you know you can achieve. Make pretty sure perfection isn't one of them, it's not achieveable.

Then, when the imperfect appears, understand that it could happen again; but hounding yourself about it will only increase such a likelihood.

Once the sear drops, the shot is history, because it can be neither recalled nor improved. Or harmed. It just is; or more correctly, was.

The only shot that's important is the one you're working on sending currently. Any shots beyond that are simply fictions; they don't exist yet, and you can't do anything about them before their time.

So take your time on <span style="font-style: italic">this</span> one, be your own judge, and turn the sucker loose only if and when you're satisfied you're doing your best. If you feel it would help to start over with the shot process, then relax and start over. Available time is very likely to exceed your need for it. Allowing the mind to wander elsewhere (especially into self criticism) is not going to be helpful. Allowing circumstances to mess with your delivery is counterproductve. Just work on the current shot, take your time, be firm but understanding with yourself, and the points total will take care of itself. You are your own coach, and it's better if that coach is someone who's a friend and ally, and not a hectoring perfectionist.

Did I say to take your time? Take your time.

You are the boss, so don't be a rat bastard about it. Only <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> can suffer if that happens.

Greg
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

load em up and practice at 400, don't change a thing that you usually do when you get there.

excitement is a formidable enemy, take notes during your practice sessions on EVERY little thing you can think of, and all your indexing marks you use on your body (cheek weld, eye position, feel of the trigger on your finger, feel of butt stock in shoulder, that way that button on your shirt pokes you, etc.)

if and when the excitement starts to effect you, go down the list of notes, it starts to "ground" you. visualize the impact before the trigger squeeze at practice and comp.

setup several target to the left and right of yours to give you a similiar view through the optic, and a buddy to your left and right for the simulated effect of being on the line, so on game day it'll seem you've done this before.

think like your golfing, your the only one on the course, there are no water hazards or trees, and be the ball. ba na na na na....

trust in your data cards from practice sessions and notes in between, you'll do better than you think. if you don't have a wind gauge, get one and beaufort wind scale for judging wind downrange.

although different, 22" barrel, 165 sst's at 2593 fps b.c. of .447 at 85 degrees with a 100 yard zero is giving me a 34.9" drop at 400, which is pretty close to your setup

my wind chart for 400 yards, i have 1/8" adjustments

SUGGESTED WINDAGE MOA CLICK ADJ. TABLE FOR
0.308CAL. 165GR. SST MOLY COATED 2593 FPS SUMMER 85* 100YD ZERO USING 1 MPH AT 3:00 (FULL VALUE) = 1CLICK / MOA# .1 ON KNOB

EST. MPH / # of clicks / KNOB #

3 / 7 / .7
5 / 11 / 1.3
7 / 16 / 2
9 / 20 / 2.4
12 / 27 / 3.3
15 / 33 / 4.1

MULTIPLY EST. MPH BY .5 @ 1:00,5:00,7:00,11:00 APPROACH

MULTIPY EST. MPH BY .75 @ 1:30,4:30,7:30,10:30 APPROACH

i'm sure someone will correct me on the numbers, it does give me center mass using this data. hope it helps, at least during your practice to get you in the neighborhood

more on wind, sorry for the capital letters, (copied and pasted it)

THE BEST WAY TO ESTIMATE WIND IN THE FIELD AT YOUR SHOOTING LOCATION IS BY USING A WIND METER. THEY ARE COMPACT AND ACCURATE.
SIMPLY TAKE IT OUT AND GET A READING. THEY ARE FAIRLY PRICEY, AND YOU CAN ESTIMATE WIND SPEED A FEW OLD FASHIONED WAYS. NOTICE HOW A GOLFER TAKES A FEW BLADES OF GRASS, HOLDS THEM OUT AND DROPS THEM? HE OR SHE HAS NOT ONLY FOUND THE DIRECTION OF THE WIND, BUT THE WINDSPEED ALSO. THIS IS HOW.

STANDING UP STRAIGHT HOLD SOME BLADES OF GRASS, A 6" TO 8" STREAMER OF PAPER OR RIBBON, OR EVEN A PINCH OF DIRT. HOLD YOUR ARM STRAIGHT OUT AT 90 DEGREES, LET GO, KEEP YOUR ARM STILL OUT. LET THE OBJECT YOUR USING HIT THE GROUND THEN POINT TO IT. THE ANGLE OF YOUR ARM AS YOUR POINTING TO IT IS THE KEY, TAKE THE ANGLE, DIVIDE IT BY 4, AND YOU HAVE A WIND SPEED. SO IF YOUR HOLDING YOUR ARM OUT AND LEAVE GO OF THE OBJECT, AND THE ANGLE YOUR POINTING AT IT IS 45 DEGREES (WHICH IS HALF WAY BETWEEN YOUR OUTSTRETCHED ARM AND YOUR SIDE), YOU HAVE A 45 DEGREE ANGLE. IF THE OBJECT FALLS CLOSER, SAY QUARTER OF THE DISTANCE, YOU ROUGHLY HAVE A 22 DEGREE ANGLE DIVIDE IT BY 4 = 5-6 MPH WIND.
BENCHREST SHOOTERS USE THIS PRINCIPLE BY OBSERVING WIND FLAGS PLACED AT DIFFERENT RANGES.
YOU CAN USE THIS METHOD TO SOME DEGREE OF ACCURACY BY LOOKING AT AN UPRIGHT TREE AND NOTING HOW AND AT WHAT ANGLE A LEAF BLEW OFF. IMAGINE THE TRUNK OF THE TREE AS THE BOTTOM OF A "T", TO GET YOUR 90 DEGREE GRAPH, AND NOTICE THE ANGLE OF THE FALLING LEAF; THE MATH IS THE SAME!
YOU COULD LOOK AT A PRETTY STRAIGHT UP PIECE OF GRASS AND DO THE SAME, BUT USE THE SWAY AS THE ANGLE INDICATOR. YOU CAN DO THE SAME SITTING DOWN WITH YOUR TORSO UP, AND BEND AT THE ELBOW AS
YOUR CLOSER TO THE GROUND.
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

Nice post predator -I will put that wind estimation stuff to use. Havent heard of the "angle" angle til now...
 
Re: Need help with 1st 400 yards Match with 308 WIN.

thanks, i'm sure i'll be challenged on the #'s and the angle "angle". may not work for someone else, however it does give center mass for me, so everyone save your keystrokes cause i'm not changing it.

that's old school stuff b-4 the gizmos we have today. nice to have it for when batteries die, you've had to dump your pack with the ipod and palm pilot in it, etc. it's easier to pick up with diagrams, of which i'm too cyber retarded to attach.

i figured that SHOOTER 308's worst enemy at compititions(as just about everyones) is his mind and the wind.

hey, SHOOTER 308, let us know how you make out and if any of my gibberish worked for you, if you use it.