Suppressors Need opinion on customer service

[The Zebra]

I recently received my F4 for my TBAC 30P-1. I picked up the can from the dealer and couldn't wait to get home to try it on so while driving down the interstate, I removed the thread protector from the host and put the can on. The reason I am mentioning this is to demonstrate how easliy the can went on. This is not my first suppressor and I did not have to force anything. No chance of cross threading or anything of the like. It went on smooth as butter, like my other cans do. Fast forward to when I made it home a few hours later (went around town looking for powder with no luck). I wanted to take the can off of the primary host and try it out on my AAC Handi Rifle to compare weight to other cans. I was able to get the can about 1/4" off before it became really difficult to move. Worried that I might damage something and not knowing what the problem was, I tried to "rethread" it back to the shoulder. No luck. At this point, I couldn't move the can either way. I was so confused and couldn't imagine what the problem was. This really sucked because I didn't even get a chance to run a single round through it.



So, now my new can is stuck on the rifle. Confused as hell since it went on normally, I tried getting it off. Wouldn't budge much at all. Got a friend to hold the rifle while I tried to remove it. It was stuck so bad, my skin was coming off on the can because my hands were slipping and the can wasn't moving.

Ok, so its stuck. I phone TBAC on Monday morning and they tell me to ship it to them. $80 for UPS. Here's where my question comes in. They tell me they aren't sure why it is stuck but they will have to cut it off, rethread the barrel and drill out the piece of barrel in the can. If nothing is wrong with can, they can make sure threads are good to go and send it back. Turn around time is less than a week. Great! Then I get the news that this is going to cost me. $120 which included the return shipping. Am I wrong to think that I shouldn't be charged for this or at least part of it? Maybe they could have rethreaded the barrel free of charge??? The threads in the can ended up being ok with " a very small flat spot in one of the threads that will effect nothing". My barrel is now shorter and I don't have an answer as to what actually happened since they had to drill out the piece of barrel. So what do you guys think? Am I wrong for thinking that this should have been taken care of? My only customer service comparison was from AAC. The latch on my SDN-6 was worn so AAC paid shipping both ways and fixed the problem free of charge. I understand that these aren't the same type of problem but I still feel like getting my TBAC problem fixed shouldn't have costed me $200.

ETA: I am not bashing TBAC in anyway. I am just wondering what other think about the way it has been handled. I just want to know if you guys think about the situation.

 

[0311@LAR]

Who cut the original threads on your rifle?

 

[The Zebra]

Who cut the original threads on your rifle?

A well respected, local gunsmith. The rifle has been used with a Tigershark, AAC Cyclone and AAC SDN-6 before this. Hundreds of suppressed rounds through this rifle before this happened. Never had a problem with any of the others.

 

[Zak Smith]

Hi,

When we get an initial call, we can only speculate why a suppressor is stuck - we can't measure things over the phone - so basically at that time we don't know anything and that's why we say we aren't sure why it's stuck.

Once we get it in hand, if it's "really stuck", the safest thing to do to minimize damage to the suppressor is to cut off the stub, "drill" it out (actually done on CNC lathe), and then pull out the remaining threads. This can be done with no additional damage to the suppressor threads. If it comes to this, we obviously cannot use our ring gauges on your original muzzle threads to see if they are in spec or not. But we can use our plug gauges to measure the current condition of the suppressor's threads. If it plugs in spec then we know our threads are good, and the conclusion is that the muzzle threads were too big or had another defect.

This is what happened on your rifle. In addition, we could also tell the muzzle thread job was not to spec in at least one other respect (no undercut). This is a hallmark of a let's say "not meticulous" threading job.

I hope you understand our position: we can only control our suppressors and cut to good class 3B thread specs. Each suppressor is tested with plug gauges at least 3 times before it leaves the shop. Unfortunately, there is wide variability in the quality of threading jobs coming out of gunsmiths. Fortunately, the vast majority of them cut more or less good class 3A muzzle threads.

But just because some other muzzle device fits does not mean threads are to spec, it just means the other devices may fit. For example, one situation we see from time to time is that a gunsmith will start with an oversize thread cut and then just trim off incremental cuts until it fits his "test" muzzle device, be it an A2 flash hider, his custom brake (for a "nice tight fit"), or another can. This is a recipe for getting cans stuck. The right way to do it is to cut to spec and then use a ring gauge or thread wires to measure the pitch diameter. The only muzzle device that can prove threads are in spec is a set of ring gauges.

Even when problems are not our fault, we try to take care of our customers. We do repairs at basically our "cost" to operate the shop/machinery for the time it took to do the repair, and usually charge a little less than that. $120 is about par for a good muzzle thread job, not including shipping or the time it takes to get the old stub out of the barrel.

When problems are our fault (like a worn out latch), we fix them free of charge, of course.

hope this helps
Zak

 

[Hannibalsnipes]

TBAC can't control the going ship rate for UPS. That said, only $40 went to them for quite a bit of gun and can smithing.
The way that you describe the can going on very smoothly but not coming all of the way off tells me that almost certainly your barrel threading was dirty or somehow some kind of debris got in the threading. It looks like in the picture that your threading is dirty. Only other thing I can think of is that perhaps the anodizing went on too thickly, but that's kind of a long shot.

Your barrel lost a little bit of length, but its now custom cut for your can by an outstanding company. I've paid $200 just to have that done in the past. Might not be an ideal situation, but I think that you were fairly treated.

Also, I don't know if Zak or any of the other guys in the shop checked this, but it is possible that you may have loosened your castle nut by twisting the can so hard you took skin off your hand. That obviously wouldn't have caused the can issue, but it can cause other issues. Very easy to verify, PM me if you suspect this and I'll tell you what I know to try and help.

 

[WRH51]

TBAC is a stand up company. They took very good care of me with something that was not their fault. Without going into detail, my 30P-1 had to have the back end cut out, new "plug" welded in and threads recut. They also repaired the threads on three hosts I shipped to them. $180 to fix the can and $20 for each barrel. That is a damn good deal to drop what they are doing and fix a customers problem for what is most likely below cost. My can and hosts are due back in today myself. Turn around is going to be about three weeks which includes shipping time both ways. Again they dropped what they were doing and took care of the customer. I talked to Zak, Shane and Ray each directly during the process. Stand up guys.

FWIW, you can see in your pic the threads are not cut to spec for the 30P-1 can. As Zak said, no undercut behind the threads. Also, the pic is fuzzy but the last thread looks very flat at the top. I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about threading and thread specs during my ordeal.

Oh yeah. Let me guess. The barrel is stainless isn't it?

 

[peaceatwar]

I can see both ends of the incident (consumer vs. manufacturer). Its frustrating for both parties. I will say I would never trust my precision rifle for a thread job to anyone but someone who I trust to build precision rifles. Hell I have a GAP rifle I want another barrel chambered for and the only shop thats gonna do it is GAP.

 

[KYS]

Judging by the picture there was no relief cut in your threads directly in front of the shoulder. Your threads also look rounded over from a lot of threading on and off.
You mention a "flat spot" on the threads in your description.... You also threaded your can on the gun while on the interstate? I'm sorry to have to be blunt but that is pretty irresponsible and dangerous. I would be willing to bet you jumped a thread.
The threading inside the suppressor is pretty forgiving. I have had GAP thread all my barrels and my 30P-1's thread onto all of them easily. This is starting to sound like end user fault, not TBAC. And no, Im not running to TBAC's aid as a "fanboy". I am reading your story and deriving my own conclusion from that.

TBAC is not responsible for who you got to thread your barrel. You chose them so that is on you. I would also call that smith and relay the same information to them, you installed a suppressor and its stuck now. Maybe they can part with some wisdom for you.
TBAC has stood behind their suppressors from day one, hell I own 6 of them (different models) and have only had one issue. They recalled a 338P can and covered every bit of the costs.
That is great CS and they will always have my business.

Further more. I know how it feels to get a new suppressor and not be able to use it because your host rig is not ready or threading is not correct. It happens, you just roll with it and get it fixed by a pro. Good luck

 

[diverdon]

From your description it sounds like debris in the threads. In your situation I would have soaked the threads with Kroil penetrating oil every 8 hours for 24 hours then tried to gently work the can back and forth, until it loosened up.

 

[Charger442]

i have a rock river AR upper that i used a TBAC brake on to mount my 30BA. after looking at the threads, and comparing them to the very detailed threading specs on TBACs website, i decided to send off to a gunsmith to have them check the threading, make sure the shoulder was true and perpendicular to the bore, and cleanup the undercut portion. Was this overkill? Maybe. but after the smith did the job he said "it was a good little bit of insurance, the threads werent quite in tolerance and we made sure the shoulder was perfect". It cost me $85 bucks including shipping. Moral of the story, making sure your thread job is clean and perfect, even on a factory cut thread, is completely worth the time and money to not have stuck suppressor or even a baffle strike.

 

[The Zebra]

I appreciate all of the input. I hope nobody took anything I said as a bash on TB in anyway. They were very professional and took care of my problem in a real hurry. I am pleased with everything but just a little unhappy that I had to spend another $200. I understand that TB has a company to run and can't just go about fixing other people's problems for free. I'm over the $$ and just looking forward to shooting my new can. Thanks guys!

 

[Known]

I own a 30P-1 and Zak has always been SUPER responsive. He even gets back to me immediately on inquiries that have nothing to do with his products. I've always been amazed that Zak can run a business and be so responsive.

Armedzebra - sorry to hear about your problems. Based on my dealings with Zak you WILL be treated fairly.

 

[308boltgun]

Not saying this is your problem, but something I have had happen.

I have had stainless bolts/nuts get galled up so bad that the bolt broke before the threads would let go. This is common in stainless or aluminum. The only way to prevent it is to put on never-seize

 

[normbal]

I bought an SRT Shadow about ten years ago and Doug told me he would only warranty his can against baffle strikes and other things if HE threaded the barrel. What the heck, why not. Couldn't find anyone locally to do it. I'd used Mike Stannard's Tornado Tech a few times before on some other projects so I sent it in. Never had a problem. Not that I've ever had a problem with OTHER thread jobs, but I think I understand SRT's position on this. I just recently had a Rem 700 5R threaded for a QD mount for an SAS Vengeance can and trusted the local guy (local meaning about a 45 minute drive) would do a good job. He did. Given the vagaries of the machining/gunsmithing trade, it seems like this is a once in a lifetime "glitch." Glad you're getting it resolved. But given the cost of the can, the threading job, the $200 NFA tax and the cost of the gun and the hobby itself, it'll all average out, call it a nickel a round for the life of the barrel.

 

[mike in pa]

A few years back I bought a Sandstorm from Gemtech during one of their tax free deals. Since it was an expensive can, I wanted the threading to be correct so I sent the barreled action to Gemtech and had them thread it instead of a local guy. Yeah it was $140 but I know the job was done right and they made a real neat thread protector too.

 

[peaceatwar]

A few years back I bought a Sandstorm from Gemtech during one of their tax free deals. Since it was an expensive can, I wanted the threading to be correct so I sent the barreled action to Gemtech and had them thread it instead of a local guy. Yeah it was $140 but I know the job was done right and they made a real neat thread protector too.

Have any pics?

 

[RonA]

If you can, take a clearer picture of the visible section of thread.