need recommendations for battle blets and plate carrier/chest rig

[corey4]

i am looking to get into the 10k biathlon shooting matches. i have never even had my hands on a battle belt or plate carrier/chest rig. can you guys recommend some? i have already looked into armageddon gear, tab gear, rifles only but they don't have anything. i have the eberlestock phantom pack, but i guess these matches are more semiauto oriented and i was told that battle belts and chest rigs are a better way to go.

thanks in advance.

 

[MOD360]

Check AWS.

 

[WATERWALKER]

For belts & accessories I’ve been using HSGI. I started wearing my current setup about a year ago & I’d like the kick myself in the ass for not switching over sooner. If you’re going to do a lot of running I’d suggest you pick up some sort of harness or suspenders. This setup wears very comfortably & it has held up well. Trust me when I tell you my shit gets abused daily.

 

[Pusher591]

For a battle belt you won’t find anything better then the Ronin Task force or Senshi belt. Super thin and super stiff for any amount of gear you want to run. Molle is sewed in the outer belt so Velcro makes %100 contact with the inner belt and does not sag at all. It’s the nicest belt I’ve ever ran and is easy on and off.

 

[S12A]

I use the Volund gearworks belt , it’s very similar to the ronin belt but has the small cobra buckle option which I prefer , I don’t like big buckles!

 

[TheGerman]

What are you all trying to carry with you? It's really going to depend on your setup.

I've always used chest rigs, and scaled the chest rig up as needed as well as complimented it with things I may add to a stiff gun belt.

Modular warbelts are gay. If you want something that's going to bounce around and eventually rotate as well as start knocking into things like a ruck or have your ruck ride ontop of it, get a modular warbelt.

Otherwise, if you are using a sidearm put it in a holster that is attached to the stiff belt. Everything else goes on your chest rig, or in a ruck. If you need to scale up for something specific, you can attach things like mag holders to the rear of the stiff belt via methods like the AWS panels or the First Spear missing link. This comes in beneficial for mags that wouldn't be a standard mag you've have on your chest rig (i.e. you have M4 mags on chest but also have an AICS bolt gun, so you'd put 1-2 pouches for the AICS on the 7-8 o clock on the back of the belt). You may also have different setups for different needs like if you are using a carbine you have a different setup than if you are using a bolt gun.

Right now I do classes and train in:

(if carrying a sidearm)

AWS outer belt with AWS inner velcro belt (may upgrade the inner to a Volund G hook inner belt)
GCode RTI optical drop mount (works with all of my safariland holsters via their RTI hardware so I cans witch out whatever sidearm I want that day in 10 seconds)
LBT IFAK at 6 o clock on rear
(if scaling for bolt gun) 2x Tyr Tactical MRAD mag pouches at 7-8 o clock

(if not carrying a sidearm)

First Spear assaulters belt
LBT IFAK at 6 o clock on rear

Chest rig

Custom 10 columns x 3 rows rack in the Mayflower pattern with the Mayflower H Type harness/swiftclip layout
(from my right to my left)
Crye MBITR pouch (for 2x M4 mags or 2x SR25 mags or Barrett nag or smoke grenade or frag) or leave empty if not needed to scale
Tyr Happy mag single (fits any M4, SR25 or AK mag) bare on front
Tyr Happy mag single with 1 First Spear pistol pocket (for multitool but can also carry another pistol mag) in 1 column, 1 ITW Fastmag pistol in the other (empty if no sidearm)
Tyr Happy mag double stack
Radio pouch for my comms unit either attached to a mic routed through up to my shoulder straps, or attached to a PTT on my shoulder straps (I have 2 different H harness setups; one for mic, one for PTT to helmet/headphones)

The chest rig satisfies any initial needs for an AR, AK or SR25. I can then quickly scale to also having a bolt gun via the belt attachments for up to 3 mags, my GP pouch or then further scale to a ruck/hydro depending on what you are needing to do. Not too much shit at baseline, yet very easily scaled.

I've also been messing with a similar layout geared towards carrying a carbine plus precision gun based off using the LBT 6034 molle vest as it tends to have better load bearing/weight distribution than a chest rig harness.

 

[corey4]

i'm getting the impression this is tough mudder with uspsa courses of fire. i have 5 weeks and i'm not ready lol!

i was able to get my hands on a mayflower velocity plate carrier and haley stratigic chest rig. A friend of mine let me borrow it so I can try it on, gear it up with what I have and get a good feel for what I may or may not want. My eberlestock g3 phantom has a load bearing waist belt that can be removed from the pack that I tried as a makeshift "battle belt", and I am not sure if I want a huge belt like that. it felt wonky. the battle belt idea just seems like it would get in the way all the time. i kept sliding it down or up when i was just walking around the house, not even jumping or running. I am thinking maybe a riggers belt so I can holster my hand gun and maybe a few small items. or get a holster that goes on a chest rig so i don't have anything on my waist at all? but that might get in the way when climbing obstacles. i dunno lol. that's why i'm turning to you for the one's that have done this for real .

I am more than likely going to be using my DD MK18 SBR (the one i just cleaned and started a thread about that i had no plans of shooting for a long time lol) and a glock 17. they said it's geared more towards semiauto than bolt gun. the race has 150 hits on steel, they haven't given a break down yet on how many rifle/pistol rounds. they recommend twice as many rounds. but i don't know if its 100 rifle/50 pistol, or 50 rifle/100 pistol, etc.

I will also more than likely be using my eberlestock g3 phantom pack. It's a bit overkill, but it's all I have at the moment. I don't want to rush into buying a chest rig/plate carrier/belt setup without having had my hands on any. The biggest advantage to the g3 is I can toss the SBR in the rifle scabbard and not have to carry it or sling it. I am not sure if this is a good idea as the pack is huge and heavy, but I can carry a ton of shit. If I do take a pack and decide to sling the rifle, it'll be a smaller hunting pack to carry random stuff; flash lights and head lamps with batteries, gloves, extra eyes and ears, knives, medical tape, water, granola bars, multitool, and extra mag or 2 on top of what i might need for each weapon.

 

[corey4]

I'm thinking I want some kind of retention on the mag carriers. What are your thoughts on the bungee vs Velcro? Keep in mind I want to be able to retain the mags and not dump them on the ground uspsa style.

 

[CoyoteKilo]

I just got my first carrier and plates last month. I went with the London Bridge Trading 6094, they were having a black friday sale and I picked it up for $169 (originally $400). It oozes quality and I can see why you can see alot of Special Forces guys wearing it downrange. Check LBT's website, every now and again they have some of their items highly discounted. In my case the only color available was Coyote Brown but I love how it looks so I cant complain. As for a belt Ive heard good things about High Speed Gear.

 

[TheGerman]

I'm thinking I want some kind of retention on the mag carriers. What are your thoughts on the bungee vs Velcro? Keep in mind I want to be able to retain the mags and not dump them on the ground uspsa style.

Bungee is fine unless you plan on jumping out of an aircraft. As long as you set them up properly, I have never lost a bungee retained magazine.

As far as tac reloads and retaining mags, if you set your chest rig up to take the mags from your primary weapon, you simply rotate any mags that are used yet aern't totally empty to the pouch you would pull from last and swap the new mag from that into your gun. This way you have a full mag in the gun, all of your other full mags are still in place and your mag with some ammo but not full will only be pulled when you are basically black on rounds instead of having a surprise moment because you grabbed the 30 rounder with 4 rounds left in it.

Velcro to me is slower, makes more noise and has a tendency to try and semi close on itself/hang up on itself while reloading.

By the way, don't wear a plate carrier without plates as it will simply flop around, and I doubt whatever you are doing is requiring plates so that added weight to wear the carrier is retarded as well as making you look retarded. Chest rig or molle vest are the way to go.

 

[corey4]

i have zero plans plans to jump out of air planes. sadly, those days are over for me due to a back injury and surgery, even though that was the next logical step in my adrenaline junkie habit.

i loaded up 6 30 rounders and 6 g17 mags which weighs 10.5lbs including the panel (over kill, but i wanted to see what it felt like completely stuffed) last night and ran the steps in my house a few times. the chest rig was for sure lighter but everything bounced around. the plate carrier was more restrictive with breathing and heavier, but it carried the load much better with no bouncing around. as i did random dad duties last night with each system on, i felt the plate carrier was better. the chest rig flopped around a lot. i could feel the weight of the load being distributed across my entire upper body with the PC. with the CR, i could feel it on my shoulders. i found myself fiddle fucking with the CR all the time and the PC was just...there...for lack of a better term.

what i am planning on doing to a 10k biathlon with 5 stages of uspsa/steel challenge mixed in. i'm not sure how long this is going to take. i imagine a few hours. i ran a 15 minute mile last week, but that was all flat, not up and down terrain, in the mud, with a 50lb load out. so i am going to guess a 30 minute mile for me for a total of 3 hours, if not more.

you are correct that i will not be requiring body armor. my buddy i borrowed the equipment from trains in live fire shoot houses. he said that he and his training partners thought i was a good idea to buy plate carriers while they are running around with hot weapons training in CQB.

your thoughts about the velcro are spot on. i didn't think of those draw backs with ammo management.

 

[TheGerman]

If your chest rig is bouncing around a lot you have it adjusted wrong and/or the straps, especially the lower back strap are wrong or too loose or the rig you're using is junk (not sure which you have). How much shit is on your chest rig? I have 4-6 mags, a radio, 1 pistol mag, multi tool, maybe a smoke grenade and some small maintenance parts/batteries stowed on the inside and other than it moving a little when running I don't have an issue with it going all over the place or feeling unbalanced.

The middle trade off to all of this is a molle vest like the LBT 6034. Its lighter like a chest rig, but carries like a plate carrier as well as being zipped in the front to put on/off quickly. If you wear a plate carrier without the plates, especially to run in, while your shoulders wont hate you after 30 minutes because you don't have the plates in, you will sweat and heat up like nothing else. It's like wearing a jacket with no sleeves. Put plates in it and run, and it literally starts to hop up and down as you bounce from running; I run in mine 1-2 times of the 6 times I run a week mainly to stayed used to this fucking obnoxiousness.

As for your movement over distance, if you are getting a 15 minute mile while trying to run, instead pack a ruck with a frame with starting at 40 or so pounds and then do this each week:

Tues/Thurs: 4 miles in 1 hour (that's a 15minute mile just like you are doing while trying to run)
Sat: 6 miles in 90 minutes

Keep the pace via a Garmin or any GPS and do it in random terrain wearing boots and whatever else you want to add. When you start making the time, add 5/10 pounds. I do this in the spring/summer/fall in the desert and you'll blow through 1k calories an hour doing it as well as it really showing you how to move with weight. I drive out in the desert, park and then go; no cherry picking routes or going where you know its easy. You get what you get. Want to get creative with it; do it in the woods/desert and take cover off the road anytime a vehicle or person come by. Nowhere as easy as it sounds plus there's always the added motivation of not looking like a weirdo if you get caught. Before I stopped for the winter, I was carrying 80lbs plus water in an old ALICE pack with the newer frame in boots and BDU pants. I would not suggest going over 80 at the max and instead work on getting faster; you should also avoid running with this weight unless you have to, so for running I'd stick to around 50.

This will overall help you move over terrain better than trying to run. Once you also start getting faster, run for .1-.25 of a mile at a time with the ruck.

 

[Baron26]

I’ll second the recommendation for HSGI battle belt. I like mine, but it all depends on what you will need to carry on it.

 

[Natestreo]

If you want to retain mags in a chest rig or plate carrier but don’t want to bungee, look at the ESSTAC KYWI inserts. I run these on my Slickster plate carrier with velocity systems chest rig. Work beautifully for retention and speed.

 

[corey4]

I stumbled across esstac kywi yesterday. That's what I'm going with.

 

[Hogstooth]

Look at the Crye Precision MRB modular riggers belt, and first spear 308 cheats rigs, I get the ESSTAC 308 pouches and put in the 556 inserts and it can hold both 556 or 308 just by swapping out the inserts. Light weight secure and easy to configure

 

[corey4]

for now i went with this setup. everything is supposed to be here mid of next week.

https://www.haleystrategic.com/equipment/chestrigs/d3crx/d3crx-multicam
https://www.haleystrategic.com/equipment/packs-and-bags/hsp-flatpack/flatpack-multicam

stupid question about battle belts...
when you put them on, it looks like they ride on top of your hips, between your hips and ribs? i tried one on in a store real quick, and if i put it where a pant belt would go, the BB would shift around. if i put on top of the hips, it sat tight right across the belly button, instead of bellow.

 

[Briggs]

Welcome to the sport of Run n Gun. I have been doing these for a few years now. Which one are you doing?

No matter what you start with, it will change. I started with an empty plate carrier and battle belt. The plate carrier was overkill on ammo and didn’t vent my upper body enough. Then I went HSGI slim grip only with a water bottle on my belt. Two issues. One, the belt was too wide so navigating obstacles was difficult and I no longer had anything on by back to protect it against my rifle since I run with it slung across my back. Had a strawberry on my back the size of a spare tire to show for it.

I have settled on something more in line with edc. I wear my Glock in my owb hip holster or my aiwb edc holster. (Still trying to decide here) I have a pistol reload and rifle reload on my belt and that’s it. Using a wilderness belt for support. Then I have a Minimalist chest rug from Spiritus systems. It has 3 rifle mags and 3 pistol mags a tq and battle dressing. I also have a 3 liter camelback that gets filled based on the conditions but it also serves a s back padding so I can cinch down the rifle without bouncing or chafing.

Some people love chest rigs some hate them and so it goes. Just take plenty of ammo and get out there. You will change your setup as you see what works and what doesn’t. Most important, have fun!

Couple of resources: on FB there is a group called ‘Run N Gun Discussion ‘ and one called ‘Texas Run and Gun’ if you haven’t found it yet. Lots of good info there. We are starting a series for these similar to a PRS where you participate in at least three races and then the top runners go to a series championship run.

Also feel free to reach out to me directly, I’m happy to help with any questions about gear, conditioning etc.

My first one is Feb 24th. Let the season begin!

 

[Qazwsx]

You need a belt with an inner belt to go in you pant belt loops and an outer belt with the Molle. I prefer the crye modular riggers belt.

For what you’re describing tailoring you kit to something similar to a overwatch/urban climbing cell makes most sense. If you’re putting stuff on your waist, ensure that it’s on the side and what’s in the small of your back is light.

If you have to wear plates keep the shit on your chest the thickness of a single mag. You don’t have to worry about a radio.

 

[TheGerman]

I've got $20 on you ditching the battle belt (if you use one) after the first competition/heavy practice session. The thing I've learned from run n gunning is that you want as few individual pieces of equipment on you as possible. It looks great when you're standing there and you think of all the possibilities, but as soon as you're running, taking cover, firing, back up, running, change direction, taking cover.....you find out that it may not have been that great of an idea.

The Haley rig is ok, but you can't move anything around and you're stuck with what they give you. The cross harness sucks as well once you start running around. Use it and see but if you're not using a plate carrier, I'd look into either having a custom rack and H harness made or going with something like this: http://www.optactical.com/mauwchrigqd1.html

Also the KYWI mags do weird things once they are wet and/or oiled up. The absolute best mag pouches I've ever used are the TYR Tactical Happy Mag without the inserts. It's bungee retention but also has enough retention (its adjustable) to hold the mags in without it. It will also fit any AR pattern, AK pattern and SR25 pattern magazine as well as it being only 2/3 the height of a regular M4 pouch so you can get a good amount of the mag in your hand to pull it instead of those shit TT shingles they gave me where you basically had to pull the mag put from the top with 2 fingers.

 

[WATERWALKER]

The German had a good point w/ the chest rig mentioned above. Where I would differ in opinion is that if you want to take the minimalist approach to weight (& being as slick as possible) go w/ ITW Fastnags. Use both their rifle & pistol mags. They’re a little pricey, but I haven’t found anything faster or more convenient. They’re also pretty lo-pro so as to not be a huge inconvenience while prone. I’ve been using these products for about four years now & I haven’t lost a magazine yet. Believe me when I say my gear gets trashed on a regular basis & I haven’t had to replace any of my FastMags yet. The shit is tough. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that it’s Molle compatible.

 

[corey4]

Welcome to the sport of Run n Gun. I have been doing these for a few years now. Which one are you doing?

i'm doing the heartbreak 10k on feb 3rd in KY, and the rock castle 10k on march 18th.

If you have to wear plates keep the shit on your chest the thickness of a single mag. You don’t have to worry about a radio.

no plates yet, unless i try to make a higher weight class in the future.

I've got $20 on you ditching the battle belt (if you use one) after the first competition/heavy practice session. The thing I've learned from run n gunning is that you want as few individual pieces of equipment on you as possible. It looks great when you're standing there and you think of all the possibilities, but as soon as you're running, taking cover, firing, back up, running, change direction, taking cover.....you find out that it may not have been that great of an idea.

The Haley rig is ok, but you can't move anything around and you're stuck with what they give you. The cross harness sucks as well once you start running around. Use it and see but if you're not using a plate carrier, I'd look into either having a custom rack and H harness made or going with something like this: http://www.optactical.com/mauwchrigqd1.html

Also the KYWI mags do weird things once they are wet and/or oiled up. The absolute best mag pouches I've ever used are the TYR Tactical Happy Mag without the inserts. It's bungee retention but also has enough retention (its adjustable) to hold the mags in without it. It will also fit any AR pattern, AK pattern and SR25 pattern magazine as well as it being only 2/3 the height of a regular M4 pouch so you can get a good amount of the mag in your hand to pull it instead of those shit TT shingles they gave me where you basically had to pull the mag put from the top with 2 fingers.

if i were to use a BB, it wouldn't be all decked out with everyfuckingthing i can think of hanging from it like the tacticool youtubers do. one dude had his 5.11 gloves hanging from a biner...F-ing really lol. it would just be for carrying the pistol, pistol mags for reloads and a rifle mag for reloads. and honestly, that's all i can envision it for. i figure it has a bigger surface area to spread the load. i'd rather reload form a belt and use the mags on my chest to rotate fully loaded mags to my belt during my runs, and place the empty/used mags on one side of my chest, probably my right. keep all the full mags on my left because i have my reloads on my left of my belt. keep the empty mags right side up so i know from a visual and from feel that they are the wrong mags. Either way, I still need a belt to carry to stuff I mentioned.

i drove myself nuts trying to decide on a chest rig/plate carrier. i finally had to say fuck it and go with something. i chose the haley d3 because i have had my hands on it, i have run with it on a plate carrier and the H harness, i have done some drills dry fire and live fire with it. it pretty much holds everything i need. i was going to go with the esstac plate carrier and purchase a bunch or their different front panels so i can mix and match. by the time i looked thru my note book (i took notes on everything) i realized...on paper for now...the haley d3 should work. 4 rifle mags, 4 pistol mags, and 2 admin pockets that can be used for extra pistol mags, one dude had a pic of a pistol holstered in one of the admin pockets (i'd have to try and figure out how he did it, and i think i have a good idea).

you are correct the chest rig sucks. i'd rather have a plate carrier, it carries the weight so much better. i am hoping that using the little haley flatpack along with the front panel will be a good middle ground of the chest rig and plate carrier and having a back pack. my original intent was to use a plate carrier, and the use a small back pack to carry the extras i may or may not need. looking at the flatpack, i'm hoping that the wider surface area going across my back will spread and hold the load like a plate carrier. if not, i'll send it back and buy a plate carrier lol . one thing i noticed, like what briggs pointed out, the plate carrier can act like a barrier between a slung rifle digging into your back for a few hours.

 

[...]

1) if you dont need plates......run a chest rig.....theyre all honestly the same.

2) if you need plates you need to know how much prptection youll need......unless you actively plan on being shot at....fron ans rear plates should be all you need..

I recommend going as light as you can afford......and with one of the "minimalist" carriers....avoid cumberbuns

Personally i run lvl3 plates in a condor sentry carrier.....cheap and runs fine.

3) skip the battle belt.......they all suck....all of them.

Run your holster and pistol mag pouch on your belt....and run everything else off the carrier

 

[Primus]

Battle belt is fine if set up right. Get a set of suspenders and a good stiff padded belt.

Best I have ever seen/uses is CTOMS xbelt with suspenders. Comfortable as hell ( I run them at carbine courses), durrable and easy to Don on/off. Wish I had it when I was in Iraq instead of shit all attached to IBA

They are discontinued but u can get them for 5 bucks on clearance section of website. I'm gonna buy 2 more just for backups now that I see that.

 

[corey4]

....avoid cumberbuns

just out of curiosity, how come?

 

[...]

just out of curiosity, how come?

unless you need them for side plates....theres really no upside.

ive worn both during training in the summer months.......and not only are they kind of a pain to take on and off( important if you are training for 8+ hrs a day, where that armor is coming on and off 4x a day)......but they are also a lot warmer than the "minimalist" carriers.....

ive also found the cumberbun restricts bending an movement a little.....especially if you are working the lower ports on a VTAC barricade.....

 

[TheGerman]

Just curious, whats the layout of these run and guns? Is it run X distance to the next station and shoot X things, pack your shit back up and run again?

Also for your sidearm, if you find you dont like a modular belt, there's a much, much easier solution.

Get an inside velcro pants belt like HSGI or Volund make. Then get a stiff gun/riggers belt that makes to the outside of it via the velcro. Put your holster on the stiff riggers belt. Put your IFAK at 6 o clock on the back; LBT makes one specifically for this, I've used it in Afghanistan as well as home. If you want to scale a bit, there are a few different wants of scaling the velcro back riggers belt to securly hold pouches - look at something like AWS offers with the molle panels that attach directly to it, or the First Spear Missing Link. Basically a few bucks and you can scale as needed or then remove it without changing any of your layout.

 

[corey4]

the video above is the 5k. i'm doing the 10k in march. i think for the 10k they added an extra stage and a few more obstacles.

the info for the 2 races is on facebook and i really don't feel like fiddle fucking with facebook and digging thru all the posts right now. i hate facebook. it's fucking retarded, but it's the only way i can get good info. the only reason i created a facebook account was to get information on these races. did i mention i hate facebook and it's retarded?

anyways...there are walls to be climbed over, slack lines, vtac walls to shoot from, a cave to shoot in, belly crawl under wire, mud pits, wooded trails and lots of running.

you have to keep everything with you. it doesn't seem like much at first, but when i made my list of shit i might wanna take, it's actually a lot. i know you guys that have done this for real know what i mean.

 

[TheGerman]

Sounds like you need to infiltrate the course a day or 2 beforehand and stash some shit along the way

Oh and fuuuuuuuck shooting inside a cave.

 

[corey4]

Yeah, I was kinda surprised about the cave thing. I'd love to stash stuff along the course, but I'm 8 hours away lol.