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Never owned a true precision/marksman/long range bolt action...First one

K

KCode

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
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Mar 25, 2019
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I guess the problem is there are really no opportunities to shoot long range out here. About an hour away there is a 300 yard range but that's about it. So I definitely do not want to sink a ton of money into it.

But with that said I have to have something! Not sure when I would ever use it...I don't hunt...Maybe for SHTF apocalypse...I don't know?

I reload and love it and do 300 blackout so naturally I figured just keep it simple and go 308 Winchester. I've always liked the Remington 700 military "sniper rifles" so I was thinking of an inspired something along those lines. Do you guys think I should grab a Howa 1500 barreled action? What barrel length would you suggest?
 
Depends on what you want out of the rifle. Since you don't want to sink a ton of money into it I'd get a Tikka T3x Compact Tactical Rifle (CTR) in 6.5 Creedmoor. 6.5 CM is just as easy to load as 308, if not easier, components cost less and the rifle has about 40% less recoil and 40% less wind drift than the 308. Factory 6.5 ammo is easily available and much less than 308. In my opinion, the only reason to shoot a 308 in a precision rifle is if you are LE/Mil and you have to.

The Howa's are meh- ok but not particularly good. The only thing they have going for them is they are cheap and generally work.
 
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m1match said:
The Howa's are meh- ok but not particularly good. The only thing they have going for them is they are cheap and generally work.
Click to expand...

And that's exactly what I want. Plus from my understanding they are loosely a Remington 700 action.

I don't mind 6.5 CM but I already have stuff for 308 reloading. I'd rather not get into a completely different caliber.
 
Nothing about 300 blackout equates to 308 long range loading. If that’s what you’re suggesting.
 
If I wanted to go maximum performance for lowest cost, I would get a Howa Barreled Action, add an MDT scope rail, put it in a KRG Bravo stock, get an SWFA fixed power scope (16x for competition), and use Warne rings. I would lighten the trigger pull on the Howa by ordering a 1.5lb spring kit from GunBloke and smooth the bolt using Emory Cloth.

-Stan
 
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stanley_white said:
If I wanted to go maximum performance for lowest cost, I would get a Howa Barreled Action, add an MDT scope rail, put it in a KRG Bravo stock, get an SWFA fixed power scope (16x for competition), and use Warne rings. I would lighten the trigger pull on the Howa by ordering a 1.5lb spring kit from GunBloke and smooth the bolt using Emory Cloth.

-Stan
Click to expand...

That's a great help, thanks Stan!

As far as the comment about 300 blackout doesn't equate to 308 long range loading. I have a good bit of 30 cal projectiles to use so that has me a good bit ahead of going completely into a new caliber.

Curious about barrel length though...Leaning towards 20" for a nice medium.
 
KCode said:
No budget...Just cost conscious and I'd piece it together over time.
Click to expand...
Ha...that's what I said 3 rifles ago and I am planning on building one more...meh

Look for sales and do research on the parts you want to use and put a list on them together. It will help keep you on track of your build.
 
For your use and range have you considered a really nice .22? Something like a chassis Vudoo or B14R/T1X/CZ 457 would be loads of fun if you only make it to 300 and don’t need power for hunting and what not

Can get a Vudoo or B14R in any configuration you want that is compatible with R700 parts
 
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padom said:
If not cost conscious and want to take a step up, get an Origin, get a prefit barrel and drop it into a Bravo or stock of your choice. A solid foundation to expand from for a long time.
Click to expand...

Never heard of Origin but just looked...Is that a $1000 receiver and then you also need a barrel?
 
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hafejd30 said:
For your use and range have you considered a really nice .22? Something like a chassis Vudoo or B14R/T1X/CZ 457 would be loads of fun if you only make it to 300 and don’t need power for hunting and what not

Can get a Vudoo or B14R in any configuration you want that is compatible with R700 parts
Click to expand...
Wait. Someone save this. You didn’t mention an AI
 
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I'd second (or third) going and getting a Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor
It's not that expensive, but it generally will shoot very well out of the box, comes magazine fed and everything you need to have a good start on things.

Get it, shoot it, then upgrade the stock if you wish, or enjoy it as is, or keep it as a hunting rifle later on when you get something heavier.

If you have never gotten into a precision target rifle before, the Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5CM is an excellent all around rifle that is hard to go wrong with.
Plus they hold their value decently if you want to sell it later on.
 
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they were 800 looks like they are $900 now.. throw something like an UrbanRifleman prefit barrel on it for $325 and then drop it in a Bravo..

If cheapest is where your at its hard to beat the howa deal. Wait for them to come back in stock
 
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KCode said:
Never heard of Origin but just looked...Is that a $1000 receiver and then you also need a barrel?
Click to expand...
You can get barrels actions

Call John at Keystone, Patriot Valley (Josh), or Front Range Precision. They can spin you up a barrel action.

You can start with a 223 bolt head/barrel then switch to a 6.5 Creed or 308 with a different bolt head/barrel/action wrench/and vise
 
The problem with going up and up and up is I simply don't have anywhere to utilize something crazy nice. I know this sounds silly but I've read and read of nice setups with limited range just becoming boringly accurate.

I'd just like combat accuracy in a 308 out to the max 300 yards rifle range I can shoot.
 
The projectiles that you load 300 BLK are not ideal for 308, but if that doesn't matter to you, you could make them work in a 308
 
OP do you just want a rifle that looks like a precision rifle or do you want a precision rifle? The first can be had cheap but the second will cost more.
 
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No, no, NO! Everyone except @hafejd30 has it all wrong. Closest range that features a 300 yard target is an hour away. Even for the most low budget PRS Centerfire rifles, that is nothing but a sight in distance.

Want to shoot long range, but don’t have a range with the distance to do so, Go Small Bore. .22LR. A man can squeeze in some awful small targets on a range that is 100 yards and it can get really challenging.

We have a 300 yard range local. It’s ok, better than nothing, but I feel the OPs pain, it’s two hours to get to anything that truly challenges my rifles. The fun of shooting long range is shooting long range, even if long range is shooting 1/2 MOA targets at 75 to 100 yards.

Cheap go with a Begara, expensive, go with a Rim-X or Vudoo.
 
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KCode said:
The problem with going up and up and up is I simply don't have anywhere to utilize something crazy nice. I know this sounds silly but I've read and read of nice setups with limited range just becoming boringly accurate.

I'd just like combat accuracy in a 308 out to the max 300 yards rifle range I can shoot.
Click to expand...
My 308 Howa was .5 MOA and reached out to 1,000 yards. My 6.5 Creedmoor Howa is the same and I have taken it out to 1,205 yards.

-Stan
 
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stanley_white said:
In your mind, what makes something a “precision rifle?”

-Stan
Click to expand...

A rifle that will shoot precisely. Lol Seriously though factory rifles are hit and miss literally. Can you find one that will shoot good sometimes? Yup but you have a better chance of having a quality rifle when put together with quality parts.

That said is why I asked the question I did as some people just want something that looks cool like a military 700 and they won’t shoot it a lot and some people want something that will shoot accurately and will shoot it a lot.
 
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Learn to dance with the wind to 200y with a rimfire and you'll be a way better shot at the end of the day.

Dropping a bunch of money on a long range rig that you can stretch to a whopping 300y is a bit of a head scratcher.
 
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KCode said:
Honestly, have some of you even cared to read the thread at all?
Click to expand...
I guess I don't understand the OP.

You just want something that looks cool to hang on the wall?

I thought you wanted to learn to shoot long range and didn't have access to more than 300y. When I referenced dropping a bunch of money, I didn't mean on the rifle itself. Components, dies and a true precision scale aren't cheap.

There are a few 700 footprint rimfires that'll look cool, shoot lights out, save you a bunch of money and give you an opportunity to develop skills that will translate to true long range shooting. If that's not what you're looking for then my mistake.

Get a Serbu .50 BMG. You can find them on the used market pretty cheap.
 
vinniedelpino said:
I guess I don't understand the OP.

You just want something that looks cool to hang on the wall?

I thought you wanted to learn to shoot long range and didn't have access to more than 300y. When I referenced dropping a bunch of money, I didn't mean on the rifle itself. Components, dies and a true precision scale aren't cheap.

There are a few 700 footprint rimfires that'll look cool, shoot lights out, save you a bunch of money and give you an opportunity to develop skills that will translate to true long range shooting. If that's not what you're looking for then my mistake.

Get a Serbu .50 BMG. You can find them on the used market pretty cheap.
Click to expand...
You wern't kidding. For 2400 bucks, throw on a Tasco scope for say 99 bucks and it would be almost as good a wall hanger as my Beaumont Vitalli
IMG_2356.jpeg
 
I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just buy a 700 if they have nostalgia to you instead of a Howa. At least if you’re not shooting it a lot you’ll have something that you’ll enjoy owning outside of just using it.

700P’s are classic AF and great rifles. The new Remarms rifles are very nice. For not a whole lot of money (all things considered) you can get a real M24.

Going with a 308 simply because you load for 300BLK makes absolutely zero sense though. You’re not going to load the same bullets in a 308 for long range that you would in a 308 and then everything else is different. Other than them having the same same diameter they share nothing. Brass, powder, primer, and brass are all different.
 
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KCode said:
The problem with going up and up and up is I simply don't have anywhere to utilize something crazy nice. I know this sounds silly but I've read and read of nice setups with limited range just becoming boringly accurate.

I'd just like combat accuracy in a 308 out to the max 300 yards rifle range I can shoot.
Click to expand...
You keep talking about limitations with your available range distance. Have you shot 5 shot groups at 300 yards? Can you consistently achieve sub-MOA at that distance? If the answer is no, then there is a lot of fun to be had at that distance.

Like you, I only have 300 yards available within 45 minutes from where I live. I make the most of it and when I drive the three hours it takes to get to a 1000-yard range, there is always a smile on my face. It isn't as limited as you think it is.

As far as your caliber choice is concerned, I have two AIs and a TacOps (soon). I have 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor barrels for both AIs. The TacOps is a dedicated 308. I think that 308 is an excellent caliber. Sure, 6.5 CM is a bit better in the wind but I disagree that 308 is a poor choice. I think that every rifleman needs a 308. Moreover, I can usually get high-quality 308 for the same or less than high-quality 6.5 CM ammunition. You can see for yourself on Ammoseek. Can't speak to reloading costs as I don't reload.

The Tikka is a great choice and the Origin with a good barrel and trigger is an excellent choice as well. If you have no set budget, I would not let a few hundred dollars guide your choice. The HOWA is a good rifle but it isn't a Tikka nor is it an Origin with a good barrel and trigger. Those will let you grow your skills for a long while. If you're going to shoot the rifle you buy, then the difference in cost will be negligible when you consider the cost of the ammo that you will be shooting. If you shoot, the cost of ammo will exceed the total cost of either the Tikka or Origin in a year or less.

YMMV
 
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redneckbmxer24 said:
I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just buy a 700 if they have nostalgia to you instead of a Howa. At least if you’re not shooting it a lot you’ll have something that you’ll enjoy owning outside of just using it.

700P’s are classic AF and great rifles.
Click to expand...

Is the Howa 1500 not basically an updated 700 action?

Here is the 700 I would get which I'm not a fan of the stock https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...on+700+sps+tactical+aac+.308+winchester+20+hb

So @ $750-800 I would basically have a barreled action since I'd change the stock. Then the question has to be asked is a Remington 700 action worth almost double that of a Howa 1500?
 
KCode said:
Is the Howa 1500 not basically an updated 700 action?

Here is the 700 I would get which I'm not a fan of the stock https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...on+700+sps+tactical+aac+.308+winchester+20+hb

So @ $750-800 I would basically have a barreled action since I'd change the stock. Then the question has to be asked is a Remington 700 action worth almost double that of a Howa 1500?
Click to expand...

Not at all, it’s an entirely different platform and nothing is cross compatible. Howa isn’t a bad rifle but aftermarket support is extremely limited in comparison to a 700.
 
redneckbmxer24 said:
Not at all, it’s an entirely different platform and nothing is cross compatible. Howa isn’t a bad rifle but aftermarket support is extremely limited in comparison to a 700.
Click to expand...

Well this changes things a little
 
For what it's worth there are some great ideas here. For the .308 i would probably go with a 700. There are some variants out there with heavy barrels. or check out the PX to see what people are selling and see if you can get a low mileage 700. From there you can find a used Manners stock or chassis (later when the fundage bucket refills), you can drop in one of several excellent aftermarket triggers (I like Trigger Tech) and go to town. Rimfires are also a blast at 100yds, the Vodoo would be great and often you find them used in great shape.
 
Rob01 said:
A rifle that will shoot precisely. Lol Seriously though factory rifles are hit and miss literally. Can you find one that will shoot good sometimes? Yup but you have a better chance of having a quality rifle when put together with quality parts.

That said is why I asked the question I did as some people just want something that looks cool like a military 700 and they won’t shoot it a lot and some people want something that will shoot accurately and will shoot it a lot.
Click to expand...
Thank you!

-Stan
 
KCode said:
No budget...Just cost conscious and I'd piece it together over time.
Click to expand...
If no budget, just bide your time while putting money away then purchase your dream rifle (AXSR, MRAD, TRG-M10 or clone such as M40A3/5/6, M2010, M24, Mk13 Mod 1-7) or whatever you want.

FWIW, a factory 700P in .308 will shoot between .5-1 MOA with FGMM and not cost an arm and a leg....Many are E or G prefix so you can turn into an A3 or A5 later, if you can find the other correct parts...Plus all the aftermarket support as others have mentioned.
 
I simply disagree with all of this. If one is going to invest in a rifle that is to be used for precision rifle, one needs to get a rifle that can utilize a prefit barrel. It is far too easy to wear out a barrel enjoying wracking steel, even on a range that only offers 300 yard shots. It is far too boring to wait for months while an overworked gunsmith chambers and fits your barrel to your action (at your expense.).

Takes me what, an hour or two at most to remove a chassis, clamp the barrel in a barrel vice, grab an action wrench, and a good breaking bar and unscrew the action, put the new barrel in the action vice, put some anti seize grease on the threads, tread the action on the barrel, use a torque wrench to tighten the barrel, install the brake, check with a no-go, go guage, install the chassis and head out to the range.

So, unless the OP goes with a .22LR, getting a stock 700, a stock tika, a stock Howa, or a stock Bergara, all good rifles to be sure, makes Zero (0) sense if a fellow is actually going to shoot the thing as much as precision rifles get shot.

I’m not talking about matches, I’m talking about going to the range and having fun shooting at steel targets from various props and barricades. (And matches are just icing on top of the cake.)
 
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I'm in the same boat as OP with range distance and logistics and affinity for military sniper rifles. I've chosen to build an M40A3ish thing.

I think Bergara's small batch M40ish thing is what influenced me.
 
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Or buy a used custom rifle. Plenty of trued M700's in decent stocks for not too much since custom actions have become so much cheaper - like the ARC CDG.

I'm a older guy and went through the "stock" rifle thing. Very rarely was I happy with the precision of these, even after glass bedding, etc. Back then it was about shooting praire dogs and varmint rifles.

A story -
About 40 years ago, and being unsatisfied with the previous couple stock varmint rifles precision, I walked into a small gunstore in Prescott Valley AZ looking for a gun. After all it's kinda silly using a 1.5 moa gun for PD's at 300Y right?!
There standing in the rack was a "all out" custom 6mmPPC benchrest rifle which included dies, brass, bullets, loaded rounds, and load data. As well as BR cards he'd shot that were all one ragged hole at 100Y and some at 200Y. It was $600 which was double my budget at the time. I walked out wondering how I would afford that rifle and went home which was 90 miles away. Within a few days I decided I'd take the hit and trade in two of my rifles and give some cash. Called the store and the gun was already sold. This was literally my worst mistake as far as guns go, one I regret greatly even to this day.

Kids came, homes, bills, etc, and it was a decade before I finally got a halfway decent custom varmint rifle that shot sub moa. Count the cost now and make great decisions or else pay later.

Nowadays most of my rifles are custom and are pretty awesome rigs!
 
Wiillk said:
I simply disagree with all of this. If one is going to invest in a rifle that is to be used for precision rifle, one needs to get a rifle that can utilize a prefit barrel. It is far too easy to wear out a barrel enjoying wracking steel, even on a range that only offers 300 yard shots. It is far too boring to wait for months while an overworked gunsmith chambers and fits your barrel to your action (at your expense.).

Takes me what, an hour or two at most to remove a chassis, clamp the barrel in a barrel vice, grab an action wrench, and a good breaking bar and unscrew the action, put the new barrel in the action vice, put some anti seize grease on the threads, tread the action on the barrel, use a torque wrench to tighten the barrel, install the brake, check with a no-go, go guage, install the chassis and head out to the range.

So, unless the OP goes with a .22LR, getting a stock 700, a stock tika, a stock Howa, or a stock Bergara, all good rifles to be sure, makes Zero (0) sense if a fellow is actually going to shoot the thing as much as precision rifles get shot.

I’m not talking about matches, I’m talking about going to the range and having fun shooting at steel targets from various props and barricades. (And matches are just icing on top of the cake.)
Click to expand...
You can get profit Tikka barrels from PVA. Other than that, I agree that in todays world it doesn't make sense to get any action that doesn't have profit barrels available.
 
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KCode said:
Is the Howa 1500 not basically an updated 700 action?

Here is the 700 I would get which I'm not a fan of the stock https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...on+700+sps+tactical+aac+.308+winchester+20+hb

So @ $750-800 I would basically have a barreled action since I'd change the stock. Then the question has to be asked is a Remington 700 action worth almost double that of a Howa 1500?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say "updated", I'd go with improved. If you look at it from an engineering or machining standpoint, the Rem 700 when it was designed had one criteria-to be cheap to manufacture. Very simple round-bar receiver. No integral recoil lug, just a piece of flat-bar sandwiched between the barrel and receiver.. Simple, stamped out trigger components. Snap ring extractor. Now-you can also say it was very clever engineering-all of those pieces play well together and make for an accurate rifle. The Howa is more reminiscent of a Winchester (and some other) actions. Forged and machined receiver. Integral recoil lug. Hand-disassembly of the bolt. "Sako" style extractor (IIRC the Winchester push-feed model 70s were similar but could be wrong). Flat bottomed receiver-only complaint is the front action screw is in the recoil lug rather than on the bedding surface of the receiver. Nicer trigger. TBH, other than a 2-lug bolt and push feed, they don't have much in common.

I just ordered the Howa 6.5 Creed barreled action from Brownells-$440, minus a 10% discount Brownells offers when you sign up for an account. I got a MTD XRS stock for $495 through them as well. You could get the same barreled action in a Howa stock from Brownells for IIRC $450 (actually less 10%). Stock is junk, but you could play for a while and then upgrade to a MTD Field, MTD XRS or KGR Bravo for a reasonable price.
 
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