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New 6 Creed problems with PETERSON brass

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kyotekiller25

Sergeant of the Hide
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Jan 31, 2021
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So I just had a 6 Creed built off my old Vanguard 240 WBY. It's what I had so it's what I used. Went with a 27" BRUX 8 twist Rem Varmint with 3 port lil beast brake, Adj McMillan A5, Timney trigger at 1.5#, NF 20 MOA base, MK4 rings, 8.5-25x MK4

The main plan for this rifle is just a long range coyote and steel rifle out here in EO to 1200 yards. I wanted to shoot the 108g ELDMs around 3100-3150 with H4350. Bought some Peterson LRP brass and this is where it gets interesting...

I started at 39.5g and went to 42g in .5g increments of H4350 with the 108g ELDMs and did 3 shot groups just to get an idea of velocity/accuracy. All went well until I hit 42g which left some nasty gas leakage on 1 of the cases. There were no obvious signs of pressure at 41/41.5/ or the other 2 cases of 42g. So I said ok, well 42g is obviously hot. Velocity was 3150 at 42g. I then came home and loaded up 10 rounds at 41g and went and shot them at 200 yards. I ended up popping 1 primer out the case and had gas leaks on 2 others. Group was 1" at 200 for those 10 shots. Velocity was 3140fps average. This had me pretty pissed off at that point since I was now wrecking brand new Peterson brass .7g below max loads in the Hornady manual. I called Peterson brass and explained my issue/concerns. He basically told me tough shit, you're hot rodding them. He also kept referencing the nosler manual which lists 39.5g of H4350 as MAX load. I said I see that, but I'm not shooting Noslers, I'm shooting Hornadys and their max is at 41.7g so I hardly call that hotrodding especially when everyone and their mom shoots 40.5-41.5g H4350 with 105/108s in a 6 Creed. He then said it didn't matter, load data goes by bullet weight. I thought to myself huh that's kinda funny because different bullets have different bearing surface and lengths, therefore differnece in pressure and load data. So after getting nowhere with him and being super pissed at that point I decided to try a 10 shot ladder and start way low at 37.8 and go to 40.5 in .3g increments. I hit a nice good node at 39.9/40.2/40.5 which resulted in a .8" 3 shot group at 300 yards with an ES of 20 and a Velocity of 3000fps. Going to just load the rest up at 40.2g at 3000fps and call it a day...For reference the Hornady match 108 ELDMs shoot 2980fps and do 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups.

I guess I can live with, but I would've thought a 6 Creed with a 27" tube would shoot a little faster than 3000fps and not be blowing primers and having gas leaks at 3100-3150 fps Snapchat-1037300999.jpg20240208_162705.jpg20240208_162647.jpgSnapchat-769009616.jpg

Anybody else having issues with Peterson brass? It's my first time using it and honestly not super impressed with it. And definitely not impressed with the ding dong I spoke with. Horrible customer service and communication skills. I will NEVER buy another box of their brass, nor EVER recommend it to anyone at this point. I'm only using it because I don't want to spend another $150 on brass right now. I told the guy I'd ship it back to them and they can replace it. He said nope because you're hotrodding them. He must have told me that 10 times in our conversation. Whatever my guy...
 
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Feed it some factory loaded ELD-M’s and see if you have problems and see what velocities you’re getting. See how velocity compares with what the factory is claiming, and inspect the factory fired brass. If the Hornady factory stuff hits advertised velocity and isn’t cratering primers and pushing them out of the pockets then sure be big mad at Petersen. If the factory stuff also has issues then you have a rifle problem.

Assuming your rifle isn’t the culprit, and you find factory ammo doesn’t hit advertised velocity either, your barrel will probably speed up after the first 150-200 rounds. There’s not much point in getting too seriously pissed until then.
 
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When I had a 6 CM I tried Peterson and had issues with it. When Lapua came out with their 6 CM brass, I switched and it was night and day. Also, Peterson is thicker brass than most. I was shooting 42 gr of H4350 in Lapua, but was 41 and change in Peterson.

Rule of thumb: if you can get Lapua, get Lapua.
 
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Run8

I stated above I also tried Hornady factory 108s and achieving 2980fps with 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups. Box claims 2960fps. No pressure signs at all. I'm using that box as a controlled test to see where, when, and if my barrel speeds up. My first 5 shots out of this rifle were with factory 108s. I plan to shoot another 5 at 100 rounds, 5 at 150, and 5 at 200 to round off the box and record velocities.

Anyway I'm still pissed at Peterson...For suppsedly being premium brass, you can't load it for shit or get any velocity out if it...

Reason being I didn't buy Lapua is simple, because I want and need the LRP pocket because this is a coyote hunting rifle first and formost that sees very cold weather, like 0-10 degrees and I don't feel comfortable using SRP in that type of weather burning 40g of powder. Also another big factor was I have a ton of WLRs and I haven't seen SRPs locally for years. The small stash I do have is reserved for my triple deuce...

I was not aware of BRUXs being on the slow side. I wanted to go with a Bartlein, but I couldn't find any 8 twist Rem Varmint contours in a whole year of looking, so that's the only reason I went with the BRUX. Bugholes usually always had them in stock. Bartleins are always sold out and back ordered for who knows how long.

I have a 7-300 Win Mag with a 28" Bartlein thats basically a twin to this 6 Creed. Only differnece is its on a Rem 700 action.
 
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Dude, I get the frustration but 100 fps doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Folks get too caught up in these ideas that they are going to build or buy XXX rifle and shoot XXX bullet at XXX fps. It just doesn't work like that, there are far too many variables at play. Peterson brass is fine. Lapua is better in my opinion but you wouldn't find me switching brass to hopefully gain 100 fps (which isn't a guarantee). Find a good, accurate load that isn't going to ruing your brass, rifle, or face, and enjoy it. Chalk it up to a learning experience. Burn the 6CM barrel out and try a different brand. I use A LOT of Brux barrels and have never found them to be fast or slow. Very middle of the road and consistent.

Of yeah, as far as reloading book data.... that shit is a starting point and is absolutely, 100% not hard and fast by any stretch of the imagination. Just a general range to start at, and work up. Once again.... too many variables at play to accurately predict what powder charge will get you some specified velocity.

It looks like you got a bad ass coyote killer there. Now go start stackin' furs.
 
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EXSOCAL said:
Dude, I get the frustration but 100 fps doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Folks get too caught up in these ideas that they are going to build or buy XXX rifle and shoot XXX bullet at XXX fps. It just doesn't work like that, there are far too many variables at play. Peterson brass is fine. Lapua is better in my opinion but you wouldn't find me switching brass to hopefully gain 100 fps (which isn't a guarantee). Find a good, accurate load that isn't going to ruing your brass, rifle, or face, and enjoy it. Chalk it up to a learning experience. Burn the 6CM barrel out and try a different brand. I use A LOT of Brux barrels and have never found them to be fast or slow. Very middle of the road and consistent.

Of yeah, as far as reloading book data.... that shit is a starting point and is absolutely, 100% not hard and fast by any stretch of the imagination. Just a general range to start at, and work up. Once again.... too many variables at play to accurately predict what powder charge will get you some specified velocity.

It looks like you got a bad ass coyote killer there. Now go start stackin' furs.
Click to expand...
Ya, I kind of got my hopes up a bit before I even started and had an idea of what I WANTED it to do. That's totally my fault. And you are absolutely right about 100fps not making a dicks worth of difference, it's just a few more clicks haha. I doubt any steel target or dog is gonna know the difference at the end of the day. I'm pretty happy with what it's doing now, I just needed to vent a little and get some other guys opinions from here which I do value a lot. I appreciate the kind words! It is definitely time to go smoke some dogs! It's been a year long wait on getting this build back, mainly due to McMillans lead time...
 
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I ran peterson SRP 6 creed brass, and thought it was every bit as good as lapua, and I split less necks. It does give up some case capacity to both lapua SRP and hornady LRP cases. I shot the SRP peterson in sub zero temps and snow, and aside from a brief experiment with staball, never had any ignition issues.

Book max velocity for 108s/H4350 is 3050 from hornady and 3006 from hodgdon...
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
Reason being I didn't buy Lapua is simple, because I want and need the LRP pocket because this is a coyote hunting rifle first and formost that sees very cold weather, like 0-10 degrees and I don't feel comfortable using SRP in that type of weather burning 40g of powder. Also another big factor was I have a ton of WLRs and I haven't seen SRPs locally for years. The small stash I do have is reserved for my triple deuce...
Click to expand...
Small rifle magnum primers or NATO spec SRP (CCI 41, Winchester 41, etc).
 
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Evintos said:
Small rifle magnum primers.
Click to expand...
Haven't seen srp locally for years...not an option
And everywhere online is out of stock...And I have a ton of LRP and are found locally. SRP stash I have is for the triple deuce.
 
Evintos said:
You got a Bass Pro or Cabelas by you? Order online, ship to store.
Click to expand...
Closest one I believe is in Yakima, which is 2 hours from me.

I'll just run this Peterson brass until it's done, and then maybe I'll be able to locate some SRPs and get some Lapua brass the next go round.
 
Hornady data is for hornady brass. Not Peterson, not Lapua, Hornady.

This is why you start low and work up.

Hodgdon say 3000fps is 60kpsi with a 108eldm in a hornady case at 41.6g of h4350.
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
Run8

I stated above I also tried Hornady factory 108s and achieving 2980fps with 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups. Box claims 2960fps. No pressure signs at all. I'm using that box as a controlled test to see where, when, and if my barrel speeds up. My first 5 shots out of this rifle were with factory 108s. I plan to shoot another 5 at 100 rounds, 5 at 150, and 5 at 200 to round off the box and record velocities.

Anyway I'm still pissed at Peterson...For suppsedly being premium brass, you can't load it for shit or get any velocity out if it...

Reason being I didn't buy Lapua is simple, because I want and need the LRP pocket because this is a coyote hunting rifle first and formost that sees very cold weather, like 0-10 degrees and I don't feel comfortable using SRP in that type of weather burning 40g of powder. Also another big factor was I have a ton of WLRs and I haven't seen SRPs locally for years. The small stash I do have is reserved for my triple deuce...

I was not aware of BRUXs being on the slow side. I wanted to go with a Bartlein, but I couldn't find any 8 twist Rem Varmint contours in a whole year of looking, so that's the only reason I went with the BRUX. Bugholes usually always had them in stock. Bartleins are always sold out and back ordered for who knows how long.

I have a 7-300 Win Mag with a 28" Bartlein thats basically a twin to this 6 Creed. Only differnece is its on a Rem 700 action.
Click to expand...
Just as an FYI
I have shot over 3,000 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor with SRP lapua brass with 1.5mm flash holes, BR-4 primers and 140 and 147 ELD-M anywhere from 38gr-42gr of H4350 from -10F to 110F.
Never once have I had a delayed fire or misfire.
 
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So here's another question then, if I was to run SRP, would I have to send my bolt to get the firing pin hole rebushed or whatever it is? I've read and seen quite a bit about pierced primers etc with them. Which was another concern of mine with using them.
 
Thump_rrr said:
Just as an FYI
I have shot over 3,000 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor with SRP lapua brass with 1.5mm flash holes, BR-4 primers and 140 and 147 ELD-M anywhere from 38gr-42gr of H4350 from -10F to 110F.
Never once have I had a delayed fire or misfire.
Click to expand...
Good to know! Is there a preferred SRP to use? I see a lot prefer the CCI 450, what about the Fed 205M? I called around and was able to locate those, but no luck on the CCI 450s anywhere.
 
jmw said:
If you want more velocity reloader 26 will help.
Click to expand...
Haven't seen that pixie dust in years. Plus I have 2 kegs of H4350 and 2 kegs of H4831 already. Not a huge fan of Alliant powders to begin with honestly.
 
kyotekiller25 said:
Good to know! Is there a preferred SRP to use? I see a lot prefer the CCI 450, what about the Fed 205M? I called around and was able to locate those, but no luck on the CCI 450s anywhere.
Click to expand...
The 450 is CCI's Small Rifle Magnum primer.
Some people use Magnum primers in 6.5 Creedmoor while other like myself don't.
The Federal Gold Medal 205M is a match primer but not a magnum.
It is Federal's version of CCI's BR-4 The BR stands for benchrest.
Federal has softer primer cups than CCI so they are more sensitive.
I typically develop a load with both and see which is more accurate but with the state of primer availability these days whatever you can find a big enough lot of will do the trick.
 
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Thump_rrr said:
The 450 is CCI's Small Rifle Magnum primer.
Some people use Magnum primers in 6.5 Creedmoor while other like myself don't.
The Federal Gold Medal 205M is a match primer but not a magnum.
It is Federal's version of CCI's BR-4 The BR stands for benchrest.
Federal has softer primer cups than CCI so they are more sensitive.
I typically develop a load with both and see which is more accurate but with the state of primer availability these days whatever you can find a big enough lot of will do the trick.
Click to expand...
So with that said, what about the CCI 400s? I have a stash of those for my triple deuce. Would they work ok in the 6 creed? I'd like to try and avoid the whole primer piercing issue if I decide to go that route, so not sold on the Fed 205Ms. Thanks for the info!
 
kyotekiller25 said:
So with that said, what about the CCI 400s? I have a stash of those for my triple deuce. Would they work ok in the 6 creed? I'd like to try and avoid the whole primer piercing issue if I decide to go that route, so not sold on the Fed 205Ms. Thanks for the info!
Click to expand...
Absolutely should work.
Like I mentioned earlier my first day of load development with the 6.5 creedmoor was 0F or -18C
This was the initial development target.
Ballistic-X-Export-2022-08-04 11:31:40.479494.jpg
 
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Thump_rrr said:
Absolutely should work.
Like I mentioned earlier my first day of load development with the 6.5 creedmoor was 0F or -18C
This was the initial development target.View attachment 8347774
Click to expand...
Perfect! Thank you sir! I can find CCI 400s occasionally locally, so that's good news! Load development in 0 degree weather is not for the faint of heart either, been there done that haha. Great shooting there!
 
kyotekiller25 said:
So with that said, what about the CCI 400s? I have a stash of those for my triple deuce. Would they work ok in the 6 creed? I'd like to try and avoid the whole primer piercing issue if I decide to go that route, so not sold on the Fed 205Ms. Thanks for the info!
Click to expand...
400’s have a thinner cup than BR-4/450 primers.

The Peterson guy is right, you're hotrodding.
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
Thanks for the primer info and reassurance on hot rodding 🙄

41g is far from hot rodding...But ok
Click to expand...
Just because one load manual says you can go to 42, doesnt mean every gun can go to 42. It should say something to you that you dont find a lot of agreement between data sources with this cartridge, and it aint bearing surface lengths. The ammo/component manufacturers have certified barrels, and pressure test equipment, what makes you think your barrel will take the max load from the highest source? Guarantee Hornady wasn't using peterson brass in their tests. It has less capacity, and makes more pressure at the same charge as compared to Hornady. The difference equals about one grain of charge weight. Ive chambered a bunch of 6cm barrels using premium blanks, and none of them tolerate 41+ with peterson or lapua with H4350. But thats with my reamer. Hornady has theirs, Nosler has theirs, you're gunsmith has his reamer, etc, etc. In fact I dont even think H4350 is in the right burn rate range, I use H4831 and RL23 at about 41 grains.

Your brand new barrel is hauling ass with your charge weights, and its gonna get faster still, listen to what its saying.
 
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Supersubes said:
Just because one load manual says you can go to 42, doesnt mean every gun can go to 42. It should say something to you that you dont find a lot of agreement between data sources with this cartridge, and it aint bearing surface lengths. The ammo/component manufacturers have certified barrels, and pressure test equipment, what makes you think your barrel with take the max load of the highest spruce? Guarantee Hornady wasn't using peterson brass in their tests. It has less capacity, and makes more pressure at the same charge as compared to Hornady. The difference equals about one grain of charge weight. Ive chambered a bunch of 6cm barrels using premium blanks, and none of them tolerate 41+ with peterson or lapua with H4350. But thats with my reamer. Hornady has theirs, Nosler has theirs, you're gunsmith has his reamer, etc, etc. I fact I dont even think H4350 is in the tight burn rate range, I use H4831 and RL23 at about 41 grains.

Your brand new barrel is hauling ass with your charge weights, and its gonna get faster still, listen to what its saying.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info. I've been handloading for 25 years and just never experienced that before. To me hot rodding would be like 2-3g over max. I'm ok with what it's doing now. I'll keep the factory 108s and check velocity at 100/150/200 with 5 shot groups. I have 68 rounds down it thus far. How much faster do you think it will get, and after how many rounds? I've never really experienced that either, but that's why I'm keeping a close eye on this rifle and using the factory box as a controlled test for it. It averaged 2982fps with an ES of 13 on shots 1-5 of the barrel. 2989/2976/2976/2982/2988
 
HaydenLane said:
If you’re getting almost 3000 fps and .5” groups with factory ammo sell that brass and buy several cases.
Click to expand...
I can't afford to shoot factory ammo haha. Just bought this box for a controlled test to see when the barrel speeds up, and get a baseline for accuracy/velocity. I am pretty impressed with it though for factory ammo. I've never seen 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups with an ES of 13 with factory ammo personally...
20240212_170954.jpg
 
1707789217523.png


1707789514368.png


42.3gr is dangerous overpressure and and 40.9gr would potentially be the start of pressure issues in some barrels. GRT results are calculations and it'll give you an idea of where potential max limits are but considering you're having issues at 41gr, the 40.9gr is your max limit (if not a couple tenths lower).

1707790173519.png


3000fps at 40.2gr also gels well with GRT.
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
So I just had a 6 Creed built off my old Vanguard 240 WBY. It's what I had so it's what I used. Went with a 27" BRUX 8 twist Rem Varmint with 3 port lil beast brake, Adj McMillan A5, Timney trigger at 1.5#, NF 20 MOA base, MK4 rings, 8.5-25x MK4

The main plan for this rifle is just a long range coyote and steel rifle out here in EO to 1200 yards. I wanted to shoot the 108g ELDMs around 3100-3150 with H4350. Bought some Peterson LRP brass and this is where it gets interesting...

I started at 39.5g and went to 42g in .5g increments of H4350 with the 108g ELDMs and did 3 shot groups just to get an idea of velocity/accuracy. All went well until I hit 42g which left some nasty gas leakage on 1 of the cases. There were no obvious signs of pressure at 41/41.5/ or the other 2 cases of 42g. So I said ok, well 42g is obviously hot. Velocity was 3150 at 42g. I then came home and loaded up 10 rounds at 41g and went and shot them at 200 yards. I ended up popping 1 primer out the case and had gas leaks on 2 others. Group was 1" at 200 for those 10 shots. Velocity was 3140fps average. This had me pretty pissed off at that point since I was now wrecking brand new Peterson brass .7g below max loads in the Hornady manual. I called Peterson brass and explained my issue/concerns. He basically told me tough shit, you're hot rodding them. He also kept referencing the nosler manual which lists 39.5g of H4350 as MAX load. I said I see that, but I'm not shooting Noslers, I'm shooting Hornadys and their max is at 41.7g so I hardly call that hotrodding especially when everyone and their mom shoots 40.5-41.5g H4350 with 105/108s in a 6 Creed. He then said it didn't matter, load data goes by bullet weight. I thought to myself huh that's kinda funny because different bullets have different bearing surface and lengths, therefore differnece in pressure and load data. So after getting nowhere with him and being super pissed at that point I decided to try a 10 shot ladder and start way low at 37.8 and go to 40.5 in .3g increments. I hit a nice good node at 39.9/40.2/40.5 which resulted in a .8" 3 shot group at 300 yards with an ES of 20 and a Velocity of 3000fps. Going to just load the rest up at 40.2g at 3000fps and call it a day...For reference the Hornady match 108 ELDMs shoot 2980fps and do 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups.

I guess I can live with, but I would've thought a 6 Creed with a 27" tube would shoot a little faster than 3000fps and not be blowing primers and having gas leaks at 3100-3150 fpsView attachment 8347089View attachment 8347090View attachment 8347091View attachment 8347092

Anybody else having issues with Peterson brass? It's my first time using it and honestly not super impressed with it. And definitely not impressed with the ding dong I spoke with. Horrible customer service and communication skills. I will NEVER buy another box of their brass, nor EVER recommend it to anyone at this point. I'm only using it because I don't want to spend another $150 on brass right now. I told the guy I'd ship it back to them and they can replace it. He said nope because you're hotrodding them. He must have told me that 10 times in our conversation. Whatever my guy...
Click to expand...

The difference is probably the case volume. See attached 6BR/Dasher cut aways. Do the same on your different makes of CM brass, and I expect you will see the same thing. If you want to keep using the Peterson brass and are dead set on 3,100-3,150 FPS I'd try the Vihtavuori 500 series powder.

1707788523160.jpeg
 
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robb_va said:
The difference is probably the case volume. See attached 6BR/Dasher cut aways. Do the same on your different makes of CM brass, and I expect you will see the same thing. If you want to keep using the Peterson brass and are dead set on 3,100-3,150 FPS I'd try the Vihtavuori 500 series powder.

View attachment 8347891
Click to expand...
Pretty cool! Thanks for that. I'll be ok at 3000fps with H4350. Just going to use what I have for now. Coyotes and steel aren't going to know the difference anyway.
 
I don’t use H 4350 in 6CM for the reasons noted above. Reloder 26 will definitely get you where you wanted to be but others probably would as well.
N555/4000MR/6.5 Staball / Reloder 16 would be better choices for pure velocities
But as you say critters don’t really notice
 
robb_va said:
The difference is probably the case volume. See attached 6BR/Dasher cut aways. Do the same on your different makes of CM brass, and I expect you will see the same thing. If you want to keep using the Peterson brass and are dead set on 3,100-3,150 FPS I'd try the Vihtavuori 500 series powder.

View attachment 8347891
Click to expand...

Well that extra thick case head area on the Peterson explains why it’s making more pressure, that’s a significant decrease in internal capacity.
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
Thank you for the info. I've been handloading for 25 years and just never experienced that before. To me hot rodding would be like 2-3g over max. I'm ok with what it's doing now. I'll keep the factory 108s and check velocity at 100/150/200 with 5 shot groups. I have 68 rounds down it thus far. How much faster do you think it will get, and after how many rounds? I've never really experienced that either, but that's why I'm keeping a close eye on this rifle and using the factory box as a controlled test for it. It averaged 2982fps with an ES of 13 on shots 1-5 of the barrel. 2989/2976/2976/2982/2988
Click to expand...
Leaky primers is way over pressure in new/near new brass. Peterson doesnt have a soft case head either. Its difficult to say how much or when its going to speed up, 75 ish fps maybe. The velocities you were pushing for is what gave the 6cm a reputation as a barrel torching monster. Like dead barrels in sub 1k rounds, which is an absolute joke.
 
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Supersubes said:
Leaky primers is way over pressure in new/near new brass. Peterson doesnt have a soft case head either. Its difficult to say how much or when its going to speed up, 75 ish fps maybe. The velocities you were pushing for is what gave the 6cm a reputation as a barrel torching monster. Like dead barrels in sub 1k rounds, which is an absolute joke.
Click to expand...
Can't be any worse than the 240 WBY it replaced haha. I had throat erosion and fire cracking at 400 rounds...I'm ok with 3000fps the more I think about it. Easier on brass and barrels anyway.
 
RUN8 said:
Yep, I wonder if their 6CM brass is similar?
Click to expand...
I guess I could take the one Peterson case that blew the primer and see as I won't be using it haha. I also have Hornady and Nosler cases I could cut away for reference. I'd have to take it to someone as I don't have the equipment or tools to do it. What's the easiest way to go about doing that?
 
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