Hey guys. New to the forum and need some help. I just got a brand new springfield saint AR15 (16" barrel 1/8 twist). Took it out to zero and get some rounds through it but am getting horrible accuracy. Started off with 62 grn zeroing at 50 yards. Looks like a shot the target with a shotgun. Shooting from full rest and not pulling any shots. Ran some 55 grn with better accuracy but still over an inch. Back to 62 grn and getting like 6" groups. I've put roughly 200 rounds through it so far going between different ammunition. Used the same ammo in my old DPMS and getting great groups. I can post pictures of groups if needed. Any input appreciated.
- Thread starter 0208VT
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What's the optic? Have you tried another optic? Muzzle device?
I have a barrel I pulled that does MOA with some ammo, 2 MOA with most, and 6 MOA with a particular ammo. You may have a very picky barrel, or the barrel is a tomato stake from the factory.
I have a barrel I pulled that does MOA with some ammo, 2 MOA with most, and 6 MOA with a particular ammo. You may have a very picky barrel, or the barrel is a tomato stake from the factory.
Muzzle device is just the factory bird cage. Haven't altered anything on either of my guns. Was expecting a 1000 AR to at least shoot as well as my 400 bottom end DPMS. Not happy with the better grouping of the 55 grn even though it is significantly better than the 62.
My thoughts, you could still try:
1) one more ammo type from different manufacturer
2) another sight
3) with and without the muzzle device
My 223 does not stay on paper with Norma 55gr, it shoots 4moa or more but it shoots at least 8 to 12 other ammo types (from Lapua, Sako, GGG, Magtech, Sellier..) I have from 55 to 77 gr to sub 2 or 1 moa. There really could be just pickiness at play.
1) one more ammo type from different manufacturer
2) another sight
3) with and without the muzzle device
My 223 does not stay on paper with Norma 55gr, it shoots 4moa or more but it shoots at least 8 to 12 other ammo types (from Lapua, Sako, GGG, Magtech, Sellier..) I have from 55 to 77 gr to sub 2 or 1 moa. There really could be just pickiness at play.
It's a rack grade rifle using rack grade ammo.
You're getting what is expected for that combination.
Plus I'm sure you're a big factor in the equation too.
Is that 62 gr load m855 by chance? If so, it’s about a 4 moa load on a good day from an average barrel. And, if that 55 gr load is m193, you’re doing pretty ok with it too. Neither of them are known for accuracy, nor is either of them a match load.
try match ammo
develop a good load with a good bullet
check the weapon for any loose parts
assuming this is a rack grade AR with a typical chrome lined barrel, 2-3MOA is a standard level of precision you can expect with non-match ammo
develop a good load with a good bullet
check the weapon for any loose parts
assuming this is a rack grade AR with a typical chrome lined barrel, 2-3MOA is a standard level of precision you can expect with non-match ammo
Is it free floated or is it the one that has the handguard butting up against the gas block? If it's handguard against gas block and it has a single stage 8lb type trigger then those groups are probably just how it shoots.
My other rifle is a much much cheaper rack grade rifle shooting the exact same variation of ammunition, and is putting together much much better groups. You are saying that somewhere in the ballpark of 10-12 moa is acceptable? I find that very unacceptable. I bet a highpoint 9mm carbine would give me better groups at 50. As for me being a big factor in the equation? I'm shooting from full supported rest and know how to shoot just fine. I guarantee I'm not pulling shots.
Stuff like this is why I always build my own. Parts are plentiful and there are plenty of barrel makers who aren't expensive yet include an accuracy guarantee. For 800-1000 bucks you can put together a pretty neat little rifle.
You still haven’t told us what ammo. This will help us with expectations.
I've run 3 different brands. Federal 55 grain, imi 62 grn, Winchester 55 grn all fmj and then some handload bthp 55 grn. I totally understand that what I'm shooting is not premium match grade ammunition and am not expecting moa/sub moa, however... when my cheap AR is printing consistent, good quarter sized groups (at 50 yrds) it makes me question why my springfield is making horrible groups. Both are 16" barrels. My DPMS is chrome lined 1/7 twist and my Springfield is a melonite barrel with 1/8 twist (55-62 should be in its sweet spot). 10-12 moa seems insane to me. In short I quess I was wandering if I needed to send it back or start looking into a different barrel? Free float? Just not super happy with a 1000 gun performing like this when my 200.00 .22 shoots better groups with cheap ammo.
I’d try to find some match ammo before I quit on the gun. Federal gmm, hornady match- I think winchester has a match load in 223 though I haven’t shot it. I still have several boxes of hornady “zombie-max” ammo from the early 2010s- it is a hornady match load with a v-max with a green tip. Shoots lights out in my cheap DPMS ar15. My expectations are so low for other offerings that I don’t waste money on them.
The exception is winchester xm855- though I am pulling the bullets, resizing the necks with a collet die, and seating 55gr bullets. Look who found a source of powder and primers… Anyway, this Mexican match load turns 4MOA xm855 into ~1MOA 55gr ammo- out of my gun. And, I figure I can make a bit of my investment back in selling the scary green tip steel-penetrator projectiles.
The exception is winchester xm855- though I am pulling the bullets, resizing the necks with a collet die, and seating 55gr bullets. Look who found a source of powder and primers… Anyway, this Mexican match load turns 4MOA xm855 into ~1MOA 55gr ammo- out of my gun. And, I figure I can make a bit of my investment back in selling the scary green tip steel-penetrator projectiles.
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