New Area 419 Hellfire "Match" brake - install question

[Senor_Barney]

I've had several of the original Area 419 Hellfire brakes on my rifles before. I like how well they dealt with muzzle rise and recoil management on both 6.5 and 6cm, but the amount of rearward, concussive blast always wore me out and I just got tired of the taste of H4350 after shooting.

I've switched to the Hawkins Precision ST Tank brake for a while and the straight 4-Port design has certainly made it more pleasant to get behind because the blast doesn't hit my face every single time. But it doesn't do as well with muzzle rise, in my opinion, as the Hellfire. It's a tradeoff I've been happy with.

When I saw that Area 419 came out with a new Hellfire Match brake I was eager to see if the new design changes the amount of face blast at all. I bought one from the guys at Altus and it came in the mail yesterday. It has 4 ports instead of the 2-3 ports on the original and appears to be MUCH beefier in overall diameter (maybe that's just me).

I am not sure what changed with the design of this new brake, or if the one I received is defective, or I am doing something wrong, but the brake does not thread all the way down on the adapter like it has with my other rifles and the OG Hellfire brake. You can see in the pictures below my issue. I put the adapter on the muzzle turning CW as usual. Then hand tightened the brake on the adapter by spinning the collar CCW. Then I pushed down on the brake and timed it properly (I've done this on several Hellfires before). After all that, you can see that two or three threads remain exposed and, in my experience with the original Hellfire, the collar has always threaded all the way down the adapter leaving no threads exposed.

Anyone else have one and can comment on what I might have done incorrectly?

Does anyone foresee any issues leaving it like this?

Any early experience with performance vs. the original Hellfire?

 

[spife7980]

The inside of the brake hole goes onto the taper of the adaptor so that’s where the critical connection occurs, as it gets tightened down on the taper the whole way around it centers itself and with it being wedged down it tightens more effectively than it would if you had a flush interface for the same amount of tighten force/travel.
So that there is a thread showing still out the back shouldn’t cause any issue. I’m pretty sure my old brake does the same but I haven’t had it on in a year as I use a can so I can’t remember rightly.

I would make sure you got a hellfire and not a sidewinder though. I know it says a hellfire brake on a sidewinder adaptor is impossible but I’m not sure of the inverse.
All the ports in the new match should be different angles

 

[Senor_Barney]

The inside of the brake hole goes onto the taper of the adaptor so that’s where the critical connection occurs, as it gets tightened down on the taper the whole way around it centers itself and with it being wedged down it tightens more effectively than it would if you had a flush interface for the same amount of tighten force/travel.
So that there is a thread showing still out the back shouldn’t cause any issue. I’m pretty sure my old brake does the same but I haven’t had it on in a year as I use a can so I can’t remember rightly.

I would make sure you got a hellfire and not a sidewinder though. I know it says a hellfire brake on a sidewinder adaptor is impossible but I’m not sure of the inverse.
All the ports in the new match should be different angles

I've reached out to Area 419 and they are working with me to diagnose.

As it sits, the exposed adapter thread don't appear to be problematic (I haven't had a chance to confirm functionality), but it was brought to my attention that it does open up the potential for thread damage down the road that could create problem for attaching the suppressor.

 

[Gil P.]

I've had several of the original Area 419 Hellfire brakes on my rifles before. I like how well they dealt with muzzle rise and recoil management on both 6.5 and 6cm, but the amount of rearward, concussive blast always wore me out and I just got tired of the taste of H4350 after shooting.

I've switched to the Hawkins Precision ST Tank brake for a while and the straight 4-Port design has certainly made it more pleasant to get behind because the blast doesn't hit my face every single time. But it doesn't do as well with muzzle rise, in my opinion, as the Hellfire. It's a tradeoff I've been happy with.

When I saw that Area 419 came out with a new Hellfire Match brake I was eager to see if the new design changes the amount of face blast at all. I bought one from the guys at Altus and it came in the mail yesterday. It has 4 ports instead of the 2-3 ports on the original and appears to be MUCH beefier in overall diameter (maybe that's just me).

I am not sure what changed with the design of this new brake, or if the one I received is defective, or I am doing something wrong, but the brake does not thread all the way down on the adapter like it has with my other rifles and the OG Hellfire brake. You can see in the pictures below my issue. I put the adapter on the muzzle turning CW as usual. Then hand tightened the brake on the adapter by spinning the collar CCW. Then I pushed down on the brake and timed it properly (I've done this on several Hellfires before). After all that, you can see that two or three threads remain exposed and, in my experience with the original Hellfire, the collar has always threaded all the way down the adapter leaving no threads exposed.

Anyone else have one and can comment on what I might have done incorrectly?

Does anyone foresee any issues leaving it like this?

Any early experience with performance vs. the original Hellfire?

View attachment 7704442
View attachment 7704441

I hope you keep us updated. I'm interested in the performance difference between the 3 brakes you have.

I just ordered a Hawkins ST brake because I was tired of getting blasted by the original Hellfire brake.

 

[Senor_Barney]

I hope you keep us updated. I'm interested in the performance difference between the 3 brakes you have.

I just ordered a Hawkins ST brake because I was tired of getting blasted by the original Hellfire brake.

The Hawkins has, in my opinion, zero face blast. ZERO. I currently have one sitting on my 6cm and my 6.5cm.

However, I had the chance to shoot the Hellfire and Hawkins back to back on the same 6cm rifle (switched while at the range) and there will be a notable difference in muzzle jump (horizontal and vertical) between the two favoring the Hellfire. I also had the chance to shoot the Hellfire on my 6 Creedmoor back to back with my Hawkins on a 6.5 Creedmoor. I run 41.2gr in 6cm and 42.3gr in 6.5cm...so comparable. The 6cm rifle is 23lbs and the 6.5cm is 18lbs.

At distance Beyond 500-yards, getting knocked about wasnt much of a factor with the Hawkins because I could recover in time to see the impact live or exactly where the splash happened.

However, at 200 to 500 yards those dang 6cm bullets are traveling so fast that you do need to be observant. Where is with the Hellfire I could see the bullet Splash as it happened I found with the Hawkins if I got knocked around I would only see the dust trail after the fact. Manageable...but that was my experience. The trade-off is that after 20 rounds through the Hellfire the concussion can be taxing. A trade-off some are better equipped than others to manage.

Once I have a chance to test the Hellfire Match can report back on the rearward blast.

 

[buggz]

I recently got a new Area 419 Hellfire Match in 6.5CM.
Took me several attempts to get the feel of the zero alignment.

I mounted it on my 6.5CM Nosler M48 Independence bolt action pistol.
The barrel is only 15".
I haven't shot it yet.
However, from your experience, I maybe getting another different brake for this rig?

 

[Senor_Barney]

I recently got a new Area 419 Hellfire Match in 6.5CM.
Took me several attempts to get the feel of the zero alignment.

I mounted it on my 6.5CM Nosler M48 Independence bolt action pistol.
The barrel is only 15".
I haven't shot it yet.
However, from your experience, I maybe getting another different brake for this rig?

The OG Hellfire seemed to self-time super easy. You just twist and it seemed to instantly lock in level.
The Match i had to play with a bit.
But caveat that by saying that the one I receive may not be correct.

 

[buggz]

I was actually questioning the face blast, especially on my 15" pistol rig.

 

[kthomas]

I was actually questioning the face blast, especially on my 15" pistol rig.

Any brake that has all the ports directed back at the shooter (A419, APA, etc.) is going to be unpleasant for the shooter.

I would look at brakes that at a minimum have the main (most rearward port), at a perpendicular angle to the bore, such as an Insite Arms Heathen.

 

[_Windrider_]

Any brake that has all the ports directed back at the shooter (A419, APA, etc.) is going to be unpleasant for the shooter.

I would look at brakes that at a minimum have the main (most rearward port), at a perpendicular angle to the bore, such as an Insite Arms Heathen.

Actually it’s more unpleasant for the guy next to the shooter

 

[Steel head]

Actually it’s more unpleasant for the guy next to the shooter

There’s a notable difference at and around the shooter with the Heathen over the hellfire, Bastard and the like with fairly minor recoil difference.

 

[Baron23]

Actually it’s more unpleasant for the guy next to the shooter

Exactly my thought also.

 

[Stoweit]

Heathen is much nicer to me than hellfire to shoot, not much recoil difference for me. No problem spotting splash with 6.5 CM.

 

[Gil P.]

I tried the Hawkins ST brake today. Not surprisingly, it doesn't reduce recoil as much as the Hellfire, but Im not getting blasted anymore.

I always double up with muffs and plugs and sometimes the Hellfire will still make my ears ring. The Hawkins Tank brake is a nice change, I prefer it over the Hellfire.

The only negative about the Hawkins is getting it to time perfectly was really annoying. You have to time it off center because when you torque the brake down, it will rotate clockwise on the threads. Once it's done though it's way easier to remove for cleaning.

 

[Senor_Barney]

UPDATE:

Had an opportunity to test the Hellfire Match brake on my 6cm side-by-side with my Hawkins ST brake on my 6.5cm when I was sighting in my scope this morning.

Here's where I stand....

I fired my 5 rounds and packed up the rifle with the Hellfire Match brake without even remembering that I had installed it. It wasn't until I got home and unpacked my bag and saw that the brake was loose (probably due to the adapter fit issues noted above)

That I was able to walk away and completely forget I had it on just speaks to the improvement the Match brake has over the original Hellfire with regard to reward, concussive face blast. Usually I would be irked after each and every single shot.

Also, usually when I am at this particular bench the blast blows all my tools and boxes around. However, this time I didn't notice any of that...which is a good thing.

Since I didn't even realize that I had the Hellfire Match brake on (due to the absence of face blast), I wasn't able to observe the amount of muzzle flip and if this changed at all with the new design.

In short, assuming nothing changed with muzzle flip/rise, the guys at Area 419 seemed to have iterated on the design enough to where concussive face blast is either now absent or reduced enough to not impact the shooter. Satisfied with the results thus far and interested to shoot more rounds as well as in the prone to see how it fairs.

 

[buggz]

Good to know, hoping to get to shoot my new rig with one soon.