Just got two bricks of Center X in the new design boxes and the accuracy is not what I have come to expect from Lapua. The new stuff averages 1.25" groups at 50 yards and 2.5" - 3" groups at 100 yards. I know different lots will shoot differently but this seems to be way out of line. I have a Vudoo V22 and so far I have tried about 6 different lots of Center X, 3 different lots of Midas +, Sk Match, SK Long Range Match, Eley match and they all shoot sub MOA at 50 and 100 Yrds. My best lot of Center X shoots about .5 MOA or better at 50 and .75 at 100 consistently. Just wondering if anyone else has had any issues with the newer Lapua ammo in the new design box.
- Thread starter HTREBOR
- Start date
When I tested at the testing center in Ohio all but one of the lots were in new boxes. I got two great lots in the new boxes. Great might be an exaggeration, but they have performed so far on par with the best lots I’ve found in the wild in the old packaging. I shot two 6x5 targets, both averaged low 3’s at 50 yards in windy conditions. My best 6x5’s with “old” Center X are high 2’s.
I’m betting on a good day I can get in the mid 2’s with the tested lots.
I’m betting on a good day I can get in the mid 2’s with the tested lots.
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It's doesn't have anything to do whether the CX was produced this year or not. Your experience could be from any year of ammo production.
Not all lots of ammo -- even the more expensive varieties -- can be expected to shoot similarly. While your disappointing lot of CX may shoot well in another rifle, your rifle can't make ammo that's not suitable for it into something that it isn't.
When lot testing, shooters like to have as many different lots to try, whether the testing is at a facility or at an outdoor range. The more lots that are available, the more likely it is to find at least one that responds well in a particular barrel. If a shooter with random lots of ammo finds that they shoot especially well, he should consider himself fortunate.
Not all lots of ammo -- even the more expensive varieties -- can be expected to shoot similarly. While your disappointing lot of CX may shoot well in another rifle, your rifle can't make ammo that's not suitable for it into something that it isn't.
When lot testing, shooters like to have as many different lots to try, whether the testing is at a facility or at an outdoor range. The more lots that are available, the more likely it is to find at least one that responds well in a particular barrel. If a shooter with random lots of ammo finds that they shoot especially well, he should consider himself fortunate.
I appreciate the comments and agree that .22's can be picky about ammo. I was just extremely disappointed in how inaccurate this lot is. Most of the other Vudoo owners I have talked to have said that while some lots of Center X were better than others they hadn't come across a lot that wasn't acceptable accuracy wise for NRL 22 style matches.
What does the chrono data look like for that lot you just acquired?
Add a “3” to the first two numbers in the lot # and multiply by 3.28. That will give you the average FPS for the lot. Run across a chrono for ES and SD.
OFG
Never had decent results with Center-X, barely any better than some batch of CCI SV. Eley Match or Tenex on the other hand ... great stuff.
I had the same exact experience with the "new" CX. I've tried literally dozens of lots of CX in three different Vudoo's, and a BAD lot will average mid .4's at 50. Better lots mid .2's. The "new" CX averaged close to 1" at 50 yards. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not, but NOTHING that I have run through the Vudoo's has performed that poorly. For me, I'm sticking with purchasing much cheaper SK which shoots nearly as well as "normal" lots of CX until I'm convinced something is not amiss. Take if for what it's worth...
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Did not chrono. I usually don't chrono 22 because either it shoots good or it doesn't, I use the numbers on the box then true at the velocity or BC at 200yrds in Strelok to get my actual drop chart. The lot number starts with 25 and the all the other lots I have had were 27 or 28 which is no more than about 10FPS difference, maybe that's enough. Like I said before I know no two lots will be the same I was just surprised at how bad this lot was. I wouldn't use it in a match. I'm going to give some to a few other people and let them try it. Maybe it shoots good in their rifle and I'll sell them what I have left.
I might try to get out tomorrow to chrono it just out of curiosity.
What was the lot number you have? Mine is 25556/600486
26556/700342. I posted something about this on the V22 thread when it happened to me, and very few people chimed in, so I figured it was just a fluke. But then a few guys sent PM's after having similar experiences with "new vs old" design CX. All different lot numbers. So IDK, kinda weird...
I thought I had seen another tread about this recently but couldn't find it. I just got this about 2 week ago but didn't have a chance to test it until the end of last week. Kinda makes me nervous about buying large quantities without being able to test it first. May have to get on the list for the Lapua test center. Champions Choice is only about 20 mins from me so I have a good source but I can buy some boxes to test but lately they sell out within a day so by the time I figure out what works that lot is gone.
I have the opposite experience with multiple CZ’s. The love Lapua and SK and Eley barely shoots better than CCI SV.
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Totally agree. If you haven't already, try the different SK offerings too. Even SK yellow box shoots well enough to compete with in the Vudoo's that I've tried it in (and CZ's, for that matter). Of the many many lots of Yellow Box that I have tried, I have never had anything average worse than .5" at 50 yards (although it does open up a little at 100 for whatever reason). Nothing against CX, I too am just a little nervous about buying quantities of it right now. The Test Center would be a good solution if you can get in AND if they have ammo available again.
I have 26556/700964
Does not shoot out of my Bartlein'd 457
Only have one 10 shot string over chrono:
1083 max
1061 min.
1072 avg.
Both the SK RM and SK LRM had greater es, but grouped better.
The Eley Match came in w 16 fps es.
Does not shoot out of my Bartlein'd 457
Only have one 10 shot string over chrono:
1083 max
1061 min.
1072 avg.
Both the SK RM and SK LRM had greater es, but grouped better.
The Eley Match came in w 16 fps es.
Edit: redid this and it’s pretty freakin spot on. 1080 real life chrono and 1079.12 with calculation
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See Above
I randomly picked up two bricks of the same lot in the new packaging and they shoot lights out sd of 4 in my Vudoo.
I'm not able to make this work out to anything remotely close to an acceptable velocity, can you give an example? I'm obviously doing something wrong.
Example: Lot 26556
Put 3 in front of 26 = 326, which is in meter/sec.
326 X 3.28 to get ft/sec = 1069 ft/sec
Your example is correct.
OFG
I have the 26 and the 25 Lots from Champions Choice and both are nothing to brag about..The 26 shoots better in my Vudoo than the 25 but the SKRM I got from there shoots better, a good bit better..So now I have like 5 bricks of Center X that is kina eh..the last batch of RWS50 I got from CC was really good..man that stuff is expensive..
I'm sure you would have no problem getting your money back by selling the CX.
Hard to sell any 22 ammo the way things are..any Bang bang is better than no Bang Bang!
Current Lapua rimfire ammo lot numbers are composed of eleven (11) digits, five (5) digits followed by a forward slash, followed by another six (6) digits.
The five digits before before the forward slash:
The five digits before before the forward slash:
- First two digits (digits 1 and 2): Prepend a ‘3’ in front of the digits to get muzzle Velocity in meters per second. Example: If first two digits are 27, then the muzzle velocity is 327 meters per second.
- The last two digits (digits 4 and 5): Year of production code. 54 = 2019, 55 = 2020, etc.
Sorry, don’t agree. Every ad I’ve seen for match ammo has sold fast, if not trying to gouge someone. Your choice.Hard to sell any 22 ammo the way things are..any Bang bang is better than no Bang Bang!
Anyone else notice the words “highest quality” has been removed?
My latest bricks had 321m/s and 323m/s velocity and didn’t shoot well at all. They were both produced on the newest machine as well, so it’s hard to say if it’s the velocity or the equipment....or something else.
My latest bricks had 321m/s and 323m/s velocity and didn’t shoot well at all. They were both produced on the newest machine as well, so it’s hard to say if it’s the velocity or the equipment....or something else.
Wow good point.....hmmm
Was able to chrono the CenterX today.
13 shots
High 1108
Low 1081
Avg 1092
SD 8
ES 27
Group measured 1.25" at 50 yards.
Also shot 13 rounds of SK Match
High 1108
Low 1079
Avg 1096
SD 8
ES 29
Group measured 1.5" at 100 yards.
I also chronoed some older Center X I had and it Averaged 1080 with a ES of 24 and a SD of 7.
Barrel is a 18inch Bartlein - Kukri profile.
Going to call Champions Choice tomorrow and see if they are expecting any more in soon and may try to get a few different lot numbers to try.
13 shots
High 1108
Low 1081
Avg 1092
SD 8
ES 27
Group measured 1.25" at 50 yards.
Also shot 13 rounds of SK Match
High 1108
Low 1079
Avg 1096
SD 8
ES 29
Group measured 1.5" at 100 yards.
I also chronoed some older Center X I had and it Averaged 1080 with a ES of 24 and a SD of 7.
Barrel is a 18inch Bartlein - Kukri profile.
Going to call Champions Choice tomorrow and see if they are expecting any more in soon and may try to get a few different lot numbers to try.
I think what he means is that it's hard to part with any 22 ammo right now due to the availability issues.
The new lot of center x I have was sub par. Going to be trying out old lots of center x and Midas plus, along with the new stuff tomorrow. Probably 6x5's at 50 and 100 yds. I feel like 100 will be a better gauge of accuracy. Granted I have only like 200rds through this gun but I just cleaned it so we shall see. The paper will tell all!!!!
Gen 3 Vudoo V-22 Three 60
22" MTU Bartlein
Gen 3 Vudoo V-22 Three 60
22" MTU Bartlein
I was saying I don’t want to let any go because it’s hard to get..even if it’s not the best..
I had an interesting experience with the new Center-X and 2 Vudoo rifles... same ammo very different performance from 2 new Vudoo rifles. I thought the new Center-X was total junk until I shot it out of my other Vudoo. Lot number started with 255 which should be around 1066 FPS
This shows me the value of lot testing - looking at the data I would have thought the first one would be best, but the second one was way better... go figure!
Vudoo 1
20" Kukri V22 was not shooting this ammo very well - around .6 average at 50 yds with some groups over 1"
lower ES and SDs, but much higher FPS and worse groups
50 shot group
min: 1089
max: 1119
average: 1102
ES: 30
SD: 6.5
Vudoo 2
20" MTU V360 shooting great - didn't measure, but they were tiny groups half the size of the other rifle
higher ES and SD, but lower FPS and way tighter groups
50 shot group
min: 1040
max: 1093
average: 1073
ES: 53
SD: 10.7
This shows me the value of lot testing - looking at the data I would have thought the first one would be best, but the second one was way better... go figure!
Vudoo 1
20" Kukri V22 was not shooting this ammo very well - around .6 average at 50 yds with some groups over 1"
lower ES and SDs, but much higher FPS and worse groups
50 shot group
min: 1089
max: 1119
average: 1102
ES: 30
SD: 6.5
Vudoo 2
20" MTU V360 shooting great - didn't measure, but they were tiny groups half the size of the other rifle
higher ES and SD, but lower FPS and way tighter groups
50 shot group
min: 1040
max: 1093
average: 1073
ES: 53
SD: 10.7
The 6x5 tells the tale. I shoot both 50 and 100. (My entries are in the 6x5 thread.) I put more stock in 50 yards though unless it’s a calm day.
Sorry for the ignorance but what is the 6x5?
6X5 Thread V5.0 *new 1/1/21*
Hey guys welcome back to the "NEW OLD HIDE", its good to be home! So getting back to business I am starting the 6X5 thread over from scratch. Same rules: Rules are pretty simple. There must be exactly six groups of 5 shots, all on one target board. No more, no less. Every shot on the group...
www.snipershide.com 53 ES is completely unacceptable for anything past 100 yards.
My brother and I tested some of the new Center X vs old Center X, Eley Match, SK RM & SP in 2 different 1st generation V-22’s and there was not any noticeable difference in the new vs old Center X from 50 yards to 150 yards. It was shooting as good as the conditions would allow (mid - low 0.2XX” @ 50 and sub MOA at 100, I don’t specifically remember the 150 results).
These are about identical to the scores I got on the lot I ended up purchasing. Works well enough
same for me. With the "old" center x at the test center some lots couldn't do 2" at 100m.
I was adding 3 to 26=29, I think some other people were too. With the example it makes perfect sense
I’m in the same boat as OP and a few others. I recently had my Vudoo lot tested in Mesa, AZ.
My best lot# 700506 was 4.57/12.98, so I bought two cases. One brick came with the rifle and the rest are in route.
The unfortunate fact is that it does not shoot well in the real world (stocked, scoped, bipod and bag). It was immediately apparent. I can shoot older CX, SKLR and SK Match and at least cut the group in half as compared to new CX.
I’ve tested this multiple times, 50, 100 and 150 in multiple weather conditions.
Just for grins, I loaded up a test with my CZ 457 this evening. 10 rounds of new CX Vs. 10 rounds of SKLR. I shot each In Alternating 5 shot groups. Same exact scenario with this gun as well. This brick of CX just does not perform in either of my rifles.
I’m praying the remaining bricks miraculously shoot differently.
Any thoughts? Could this particular brick just be a turd?
My best lot# 700506 was 4.57/12.98, so I bought two cases. One brick came with the rifle and the rest are in route.
The unfortunate fact is that it does not shoot well in the real world (stocked, scoped, bipod and bag). It was immediately apparent. I can shoot older CX, SKLR and SK Match and at least cut the group in half as compared to new CX.
I’ve tested this multiple times, 50, 100 and 150 in multiple weather conditions.
Just for grins, I loaded up a test with my CZ 457 this evening. 10 rounds of new CX Vs. 10 rounds of SKLR. I shot each In Alternating 5 shot groups. Same exact scenario with this gun as well. This brick of CX just does not perform in either of my rifles.
I’m praying the remaining bricks miraculously shoot differently.
Any thoughts? Could this particular brick just be a turd?
In my experience, it USE to be that you could buy ANY lot of CX, and rest assured that it would be good enough for 1 moa, more or less, in a Vudoo. Or a descent CZ etc. Certainly good enough to compete or play with without worrying about buying a brick or case that your rifle hated. The only reason I'd feel the need to lot test CX was if I wanted to find a .6 moa lot. I'm not sure what is up with Lapua, but it is starting to appear that the new normal with CX is to have to lot test just to find a descent 1 moa brick or case, which given the current supply and pricing, is fairly difficult.
Rob01 recommended calling Lapua some time ago regarding this. I more recently gave that a half hearted attempt, but it seems like no one is answering their phones these days. I personally would really like to hear MB chime in and give us his opinion as to what, if anything, is up. I suppose on the bright side, this just adds another element to the challenge of our little hobby. lol
Rob01 recommended calling Lapua some time ago regarding this. I more recently gave that a half hearted attempt, but it seems like no one is answering their phones these days. I personally would really like to hear MB chime in and give us his opinion as to what, if anything, is up. I suppose on the bright side, this just adds another element to the challenge of our little hobby. lol
Man all of this is discouraging to hear! In the past I would always lot test Eley Tenex & Match or at very least stick to a velocity window otherwise it would be less than optimal. However I never even looked at the lot numbers on Center X and Midas + they would all shoot. This is over many many years and a lot of different rifles. I have noticed in the past 2 years what seems to be a slight drop in Center X performance, but I have not been shooting nearly as much rimfire personally (focusing on other projects) and thought I was just off my game some.
I have decided to drastically taper back on another hobby that has been chewing up too much time and get back into shooting rimfire more, so I will be taking a very close look at this.
I have decided to drastically taper back on another hobby that has been chewing up too much time and get back into shooting rimfire more, so I will be taking a very close look at this.
