I shot 5 loads across my new chronograph yesterday and did not like the results at all. The first shot was 2756 and the second shot was 2669. The other three shots were between the first two. I weighed every powder charge and measured every seating depth. All of the seating depths were within .001 measured to the ogive and seated against the lands. I also used a lee factory crimp die. The variance in velocity seems excessive to me. Any ideas what I might have done wrong?
- Thread starter gray1974
- Start date
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
Weighing every charge and being particular means nothing to your SD if you have not found the node. Let me give you an example. The numbers may not be exactly the same I am just working off rough memory here.
When I developed my '06 load I loaded 57gr, 57.5gr,58,58.5gr and 59gr. My standard deviations at 57 were single digits then rolled up to double digits until I got to 59gr and then the SD dropped to 3.16FPS. Simply put that means there is an accuracy node at 57 and 59grs and the 59 gets the nod due to the fact I am getting max velocity. Now understand my velocity leveled off and went no higher after 58.5gr but my SD dropped considerably. I do not know enough about internal balistics to explain the why but I can tell you you need to make up a series of loads as I have shown here and find the node. If you reach max pressure and find no particularly exciting results you may need to try another powder.
Throw that factory crimp die away. You don't need it even in an autoloader. Your ammo should feed just fine without one, if not you have a problem with the feed ramp, not your ammo. A crimp does not contribute to accuarcy. I have never seen a BR shooter crimp a bulet in a case.
P.S. Don't take that velocity reading as gospel, the actual numbers could be much higher or lower but your SD and ES should be accuarte as long as your conditions (light, angle etc) do not change too much during the session.
Weighing every charge and being particular means nothing to your SD if you have not found the node. Let me give you an example. The numbers may not be exactly the same I am just working off rough memory here.
When I developed my '06 load I loaded 57gr, 57.5gr,58,58.5gr and 59gr. My standard deviations at 57 were single digits then rolled up to double digits until I got to 59gr and then the SD dropped to 3.16FPS. Simply put that means there is an accuracy node at 57 and 59grs and the 59 gets the nod due to the fact I am getting max velocity. Now understand my velocity leveled off and went no higher after 58.5gr but my SD dropped considerably. I do not know enough about internal balistics to explain the why but I can tell you you need to make up a series of loads as I have shown here and find the node. If you reach max pressure and find no particularly exciting results you may need to try another powder.
Throw that factory crimp die away. You don't need it even in an autoloader. Your ammo should feed just fine without one, if not you have a problem with the feed ramp, not your ammo. A crimp does not contribute to accuarcy. I have never seen a BR shooter crimp a bulet in a case.
P.S. Don't take that velocity reading as gospel, the actual numbers could be much higher or lower but your SD and ES should be accuarte as long as your conditions (light, angle etc) do not change too much during the session.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
Consider and hope that the chrony was telling the truth...that is why you bought it. Looks like you need to work on your loading practices. As Armorp says...re-evaluate all of your loading procedures. Your rifle and bullets may not like being jammed into the lands. Your necks may be tight...hardened by work...groty (as in lots of fired stuff in there), out of round, out of specs length wise...leading to bad juju when you crimp the mouths. Start from the beginning and get all you can out of the chrony. You may need to turn necks, anneal, polish the insides of the necks, lube the insides, change tension of the sizing die (easier with bushings), change and trim OAL of the cases, OAL of the loads, change brands of primers, change powders, uniform primer pockets inside and out...the answer to your question is legion. Meaning that there are many, many variables that can affect the reading on the screen. The chronograph is telling you that you should improve your techniques of loading and prepping. Again..that is why you bought it...isn't it? JMHO
Consider and hope that the chrony was telling the truth...that is why you bought it. Looks like you need to work on your loading practices. As Armorp says...re-evaluate all of your loading procedures. Your rifle and bullets may not like being jammed into the lands. Your necks may be tight...hardened by work...groty (as in lots of fired stuff in there), out of round, out of specs length wise...leading to bad juju when you crimp the mouths. Start from the beginning and get all you can out of the chrony. You may need to turn necks, anneal, polish the insides of the necks, lube the insides, change tension of the sizing die (easier with bushings), change and trim OAL of the cases, OAL of the loads, change brands of primers, change powders, uniform primer pockets inside and out...the answer to your question is legion. Meaning that there are many, many variables that can affect the reading on the screen. The chronograph is telling you that you should improve your techniques of loading and prepping. Again..that is why you bought it...isn't it? JMHO
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
I agree^^^^ start about .010-.015 off the lands. Yes if your cases are fired more than 3 times I would reccomend annealing or starting with some new brass. Yes you also may need a hotter or cooler primer. Lots of factors to play with to find the magic. Is your powder charge high or low density. Low density loads don't usually make for low SD numbers.
I agree^^^^ start about .010-.015 off the lands. Yes if your cases are fired more than 3 times I would reccomend annealing or starting with some new brass. Yes you also may need a hotter or cooler primer. Lots of factors to play with to find the magic. Is your powder charge high or low density. Low density loads don't usually make for low SD numbers.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
Deviations in the thickness of the neck wall can greatly effect neck tension and cause different pressures which effect SD. Check this out:
http://www.6mmbr.com/casenecktools.html
Deviations in the thickness of the neck wall can greatly effect neck tension and cause different pressures which effect SD. Check this out:
http://www.6mmbr.com/casenecktools.html
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
Agree with the above. Eliminating all the possible sources of inconsistency is part of the game. That and hunting for the sweet spot your rifle likes.
I also agree with ditching the crimp die. Even with a violent action like the M1A, I haven't crimped a bottleneck case in 30 years.
Agree with the above. Eliminating all the possible sources of inconsistency is part of the game. That and hunting for the sweet spot your rifle likes.
I also agree with ditching the crimp die. Even with a violent action like the M1A, I haven't crimped a bottleneck case in 30 years.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
Certain Chronographs are more finnicky than others. Try this and see if it helps.
Use a black marker to color the projectile ahead of the ogive before shooting it through a chrony. If that doesn't lower your deviation, try chronoing rounds that have NOT been crimped. Inconsistent crimp can throw velocity off a lot.
Certain Chronographs are more finnicky than others. Try this and see if it helps.
Use a black marker to color the projectile ahead of the ogive before shooting it through a chrony. If that doesn't lower your deviation, try chronoing rounds that have NOT been crimped. Inconsistent crimp can throw velocity off a lot.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeterWBush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Certain Chronographs are more finnicky than others. Try this and see if it helps.
Use a black marker to color the projectile ahead of the ogive before shooting it through a chrony. If that doesn't lower your deviation, try chronoing rounds that have NOT been crimped. Inconsistent crimp can throw velocity off a lot. </div></div>
Please explain how coloring the bullet tip will lower his SD. Do you think it helps the "eyes" see the bullet better? Please enlighten us.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeterWBush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Certain Chronographs are more finnicky than others. Try this and see if it helps.
Use a black marker to color the projectile ahead of the ogive before shooting it through a chrony. If that doesn't lower your deviation, try chronoing rounds that have NOT been crimped. Inconsistent crimp can throw velocity off a lot. </div></div>
Please explain how coloring the bullet tip will lower his SD. Do you think it helps the "eyes" see the bullet better? Please enlighten us.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
I plan to try the ladder test as suggested. The only brass I have is ten pcs of winchester fired three times and forty pcs never fired. I am not set up yet to anneal. Do I need to fire size the new brass before I try the ladder test? Thanks for all the help.
I plan to try the ladder test as suggested. The only brass I have is ten pcs of winchester fired three times and forty pcs never fired. I am not set up yet to anneal. Do I need to fire size the new brass before I try the ladder test? Thanks for all the help.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
armor...the chronys are supposed to read off of shadows passing above the screens. Frequently they will respond to "glints" or in other words, bright reflections from those shiny bullets. Darkening the bullet itself will help eliminate the "glints". Pretty damn ingenious, I think.
armor...the chronys are supposed to read off of shadows passing above the screens. Frequently they will respond to "glints" or in other words, bright reflections from those shiny bullets. Darkening the bullet itself will help eliminate the "glints". Pretty damn ingenious, I think.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
What brand of chronogragh were you using? Im in the market for one myself!
What brand of chronogragh were you using? Im in the market for one myself!
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">armor...the chronys are supposed to read off of shadows passing above the screens. Frequently they will respond to "glints" or in other words, bright reflections from those shiny bullets. Darkening the bullet itself will help eliminate the "glints". Pretty damn ingenious, I think. </div></div>
FNP thanks for the reply. I knew this already.I knew about the magic marker trick. I wanted him to tell me how it was going to improve the OP's standard deviation. To be blunt, he is talking out of his ass. If the reading area is bright enough for the bullet to glint you will get NO reading but an error. If the bullet does glint it will cancel out the shadow and you will get NO reading. You will not get an obscure reading due to bullet glint. If the chrony is reading the shadow it will give you a series of numbers and whether they are higher than actual or lower than actual they will in spite of that give you an accurate SD. If you are in rapidly changing conditions, think windy partly cloudy day; dark light dark light, then you will possibly get some screwed up readings and in my experience that means lots of shots that are simply error readings,ie. Err1, Err2 not a false velocity reading. The best plan is to shoot on days when light conditions are fairly stable. If you have your sky screens too high on a sunny day you will get error readings.
Long story short painting your bullets will not improve your SD. SD is predicated on actual readings and if you need to paint your bullet you aren't getting a reading at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">armor...the chronys are supposed to read off of shadows passing above the screens. Frequently they will respond to "glints" or in other words, bright reflections from those shiny bullets. Darkening the bullet itself will help eliminate the "glints". Pretty damn ingenious, I think. </div></div>
FNP thanks for the reply. I knew this already.I knew about the magic marker trick. I wanted him to tell me how it was going to improve the OP's standard deviation. To be blunt, he is talking out of his ass. If the reading area is bright enough for the bullet to glint you will get NO reading but an error. If the bullet does glint it will cancel out the shadow and you will get NO reading. You will not get an obscure reading due to bullet glint. If the chrony is reading the shadow it will give you a series of numbers and whether they are higher than actual or lower than actual they will in spite of that give you an accurate SD. If you are in rapidly changing conditions, think windy partly cloudy day; dark light dark light, then you will possibly get some screwed up readings and in my experience that means lots of shots that are simply error readings,ie. Err1, Err2 not a false velocity reading. The best plan is to shoot on days when light conditions are fairly stable. If you have your sky screens too high on a sunny day you will get error readings.
Long story short painting your bullets will not improve your SD. SD is predicated on actual readings and if you need to paint your bullet you aren't getting a reading at all.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">armor...the chronys are supposed to read off of shadows passing above the screens. Frequently they will respond to "glints" or in other words, bright reflections from those shiny bullets. Darkening the bullet itself will help eliminate the "glints". Pretty damn ingenious, I think. </div></div>
FNP thanks for the reply. I knew this already.I knew about the magic marker trick. I wanted him to tell me how it was going to improve the OP's standard deviation. To be blunt, he is talking out of his ass. If the reading area is bright enough for the bullet to glint you will get NO reading but an error. If the bullet does glint it will cancel out the shadow and you will get NO reading. You will not get an obscure reading due to bullet glint. If the chrony is reading the shadow it will give you a series of numbers and whether they are higher than actual or lower than actual they will in spite of that give you an accurate SD. If you are in rapidly changing conditions, think windy partly cloudy day; dark light dark light, then you will possibly get some screwed up readings and in my experience that means lots of shots that are simply error readings,ie. Err1, Err2 not a false velocity reading. The best plan is to shoot on days when light conditions are fairly stable. If you have your sky screens too high on a sunny day you will get error readings.
Long story short painting your bullets will not improve your SD. SD is predicated on actual readings and if you need to paint your bullet you aren't getting a reading at all. </div></div>
I HAVE gotten false velocity readings because of rapidly changing whether conditions. I have used the marker as somewhat of a "failsafe," if you will. It has helped when I had an extremely high SD with good handloads. Its just an idea for the OP, take it how you want it but I'm not talking out of my ass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">armor...the chronys are supposed to read off of shadows passing above the screens. Frequently they will respond to "glints" or in other words, bright reflections from those shiny bullets. Darkening the bullet itself will help eliminate the "glints". Pretty damn ingenious, I think. </div></div>
FNP thanks for the reply. I knew this already.I knew about the magic marker trick. I wanted him to tell me how it was going to improve the OP's standard deviation. To be blunt, he is talking out of his ass. If the reading area is bright enough for the bullet to glint you will get NO reading but an error. If the bullet does glint it will cancel out the shadow and you will get NO reading. You will not get an obscure reading due to bullet glint. If the chrony is reading the shadow it will give you a series of numbers and whether they are higher than actual or lower than actual they will in spite of that give you an accurate SD. If you are in rapidly changing conditions, think windy partly cloudy day; dark light dark light, then you will possibly get some screwed up readings and in my experience that means lots of shots that are simply error readings,ie. Err1, Err2 not a false velocity reading. The best plan is to shoot on days when light conditions are fairly stable. If you have your sky screens too high on a sunny day you will get error readings.
Long story short painting your bullets will not improve your SD. SD is predicated on actual readings and if you need to paint your bullet you aren't getting a reading at all. </div></div>
I HAVE gotten false velocity readings because of rapidly changing whether conditions. I have used the marker as somewhat of a "failsafe," if you will. It has helped when I had an extremely high SD with good handloads. Its just an idea for the OP, take it how you want it but I'm not talking out of my ass.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I HAVE gotten false velocity readings because of rapidly changing whether conditions. I have used the marker as somewhat of a "failsafe," if you will. It has helped when I had an extremely high SD with good handloads. Its just an idea for the OP, take it how you want it but I'm not talking out of my ass.</div></div>
So you contend that you have lowered your SD by painting your bullets black. I can't reason with this kind of logic. I have told you what happens if your bullet glints and you are saying not so. In the instance of an anomaly you will simply get an error. If your handloads are good they will have low SD but that does not mean they won't shoot small groups out to 200yds. I didn't take it how I wanted it I simply took it how you have said it twice now. I think we are done here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I HAVE gotten false velocity readings because of rapidly changing whether conditions. I have used the marker as somewhat of a "failsafe," if you will. It has helped when I had an extremely high SD with good handloads. Its just an idea for the OP, take it how you want it but I'm not talking out of my ass.</div></div>
So you contend that you have lowered your SD by painting your bullets black. I can't reason with this kind of logic. I have told you what happens if your bullet glints and you are saying not so. In the instance of an anomaly you will simply get an error. If your handloads are good they will have low SD but that does not mean they won't shoot small groups out to 200yds. I didn't take it how I wanted it I simply took it how you have said it twice now. I think we are done here.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I HAVE gotten false velocity readings because of rapidly changing whether conditions. I have used the marker as somewhat of a "failsafe," if you will. It has helped when I had an extremely high SD with good handloads. Its just an idea for the OP, take it how you want it but I'm not talking out of my ass.</div></div>
So you contend that you have lowered your SD by painting your bullets black. I can't reason with this kind of logic. I have told you what happens if your bullet glints and you are saying not so. In the instance of an anomaly you will simply get an error. If your handloads are good they will have low SD but that does not mean they won't shoot small groups out to 200yds. I didn't take it how I wanted it I simply took it how you have said it twice now. I think we are done here. </div></div>
NO of course I don't think that coloring the bullet actually lowers SD. That would be retarded. Yes, we are done here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I HAVE gotten false velocity readings because of rapidly changing whether conditions. I have used the marker as somewhat of a "failsafe," if you will. It has helped when I had an extremely high SD with good handloads. Its just an idea for the OP, take it how you want it but I'm not talking out of my ass.</div></div>
So you contend that you have lowered your SD by painting your bullets black. I can't reason with this kind of logic. I have told you what happens if your bullet glints and you are saying not so. In the instance of an anomaly you will simply get an error. If your handloads are good they will have low SD but that does not mean they won't shoot small groups out to 200yds. I didn't take it how I wanted it I simply took it how you have said it twice now. I think we are done here. </div></div>
NO of course I don't think that coloring the bullet actually lowers SD. That would be retarded. Yes, we are done here.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
Well, back on topic, and disregarding who's talking out their ass and who's not, I contacted Chrony Co about the accuracy of their equipment, and the reply indicated that the F-1 has a 99% accuracy. So it follows that you can get a 10 FPS deviation per thousand FPS , or 27 FPS at 2700 FPS built in from the Chrony.
Or not.
Well, back on topic, and disregarding who's talking out their ass and who's not, I contacted Chrony Co about the accuracy of their equipment, and the reply indicated that the F-1 has a 99% accuracy. So it follows that you can get a 10 FPS deviation per thousand FPS , or 27 FPS at 2700 FPS built in from the Chrony.
Or not.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kinsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, back on topic, and disregarding who's talking out their ass and who's not, I contacted Chrony Co about the accuracy of their equipment, and the reply indicated that the F-1 has a 99% accuracy. So it follows that you can get a 10 FPS deviation per thousand FPS , or 27 FPS at 2700 FPS built in from the Chrony.
Or not.</div></div>
Thanks kinsman. I never really put the math to one percent for a rifle. I am in the middle of a ladder test right now and am aggravated as hell. NOT Chrony's fault, my fault. All I have is a one hundred yard range and I can't tell anything yet. Got dark on me last night so I will finish today. Hope I find something to make the sore shoulder worth it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kinsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, back on topic, and disregarding who's talking out their ass and who's not, I contacted Chrony Co about the accuracy of their equipment, and the reply indicated that the F-1 has a 99% accuracy. So it follows that you can get a 10 FPS deviation per thousand FPS , or 27 FPS at 2700 FPS built in from the Chrony.
Or not.</div></div>
Thanks kinsman. I never really put the math to one percent for a rifle. I am in the middle of a ladder test right now and am aggravated as hell. NOT Chrony's fault, my fault. All I have is a one hundred yard range and I can't tell anything yet. Got dark on me last night so I will finish today. Hope I find something to make the sore shoulder worth it.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
I don't think barrel vibration nodes have anything to do with your chron variance.
OP, I have had the same exact questions you have had, after what I thought was careful loading and far too much ES and SD. I started to originally blame it on the chron too, and certainly the chron will have it's own SD with respect to velocity measurement as does any measurement device based on a jittery clock (which it most assuredly has... everything does).
Here is what I did to improve chron consistency:
1) move the chron further away from the rifle, and off the ground. I used to shoot prone wtih the chron close and that seemed to have kicked up dirt ahead and behind the bullet causing all kinds of strange readings. Now I have the chron off the ground like 3 feet (same height as shooting bench), and 10-12 feet away from the rifle.
2) because I wanted to fit my 338M rounds in my mag, I seated them to 0.052" versus the 0.010" that did have them at. And guess what... the SD really tightened up, after a ten round string, not just a more lucky 5 round string. We've talked about this in other threads and the seating at or close to the lands business may not be all it's cracked up to be on all rifles.
I don't think barrel vibration nodes have anything to do with your chron variance.
OP, I have had the same exact questions you have had, after what I thought was careful loading and far too much ES and SD. I started to originally blame it on the chron too, and certainly the chron will have it's own SD with respect to velocity measurement as does any measurement device based on a jittery clock (which it most assuredly has... everything does).
Here is what I did to improve chron consistency:
1) move the chron further away from the rifle, and off the ground. I used to shoot prone wtih the chron close and that seemed to have kicked up dirt ahead and behind the bullet causing all kinds of strange readings. Now I have the chron off the ground like 3 feet (same height as shooting bench), and 10-12 feet away from the rifle.
2) because I wanted to fit my 338M rounds in my mag, I seated them to 0.052" versus the 0.010" that did have them at. And guess what... the SD really tightened up, after a ten round string, not just a more lucky 5 round string. We've talked about this in other threads and the seating at or close to the lands business may not be all it's cracked up to be on all rifles.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
I appreciate it. I moved my chrony out to about twenty feet for this ladder test and I have it set up on a camera tripod. I only have the bullets .020 off the lands though. I am also using new brass so I plan to try it again with once fired and neck sized. I may back them off the lands a little more for the next test. Thanks for the advice.
I appreciate it. I moved my chrony out to about twenty feet for this ladder test and I have it set up on a camera tripod. I only have the bullets .020 off the lands though. I am also using new brass so I plan to try it again with once fired and neck sized. I may back them off the lands a little more for the next test. Thanks for the advice.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chuck1974</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot 5 loads across my new chronograph yesterday and did not like the results at all. The first shot was 2756 and the second shot was 2669. The other three shots were between the first two. I weighed every powder charge and measured every seating depth. All of the seating depths were within .001 measured to the ogive and seated against the lands. I also used a lee factory crimp die. The variance in velocity seems excessive to me. Any ideas what I might have done wrong? </div></div>
I give.
What rifle, what bullet, primer, and how much powder.
You may be out in left field, give us some more information and we might be able to help you more.
SScott
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chuck1974</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot 5 loads across my new chronograph yesterday and did not like the results at all. The first shot was 2756 and the second shot was 2669. The other three shots were between the first two. I weighed every powder charge and measured every seating depth. All of the seating depths were within .001 measured to the ogive and seated against the lands. I also used a lee factory crimp die. The variance in velocity seems excessive to me. Any ideas what I might have done wrong? </div></div>
I give.
What rifle, what bullet, primer, and how much powder.
You may be out in left field, give us some more information and we might be able to help you more.
SScott
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
voodoo......I personally don't trust chronographs, except for ballpark numbers. Run them across the chrony to get an idea. Take the velocity, input into a ballistics calculator, print off a dope chart, go out and shoot it real life, and record actuals. Now adjust muzzle velocity and your G7 ballistic coefficient until all of your drops match your actuals, and just like magic, you have your actual muzzle velocity. Don't tweak your ballistic coefficient too much though, especially if you got it from Litz's book "applied ballistics".
The only true accurate chronograph is Doppler Radar, and that sob is expensive. The defiencies in your ES and SD will rear their ugly heads at extended ranges. Especially if you do your part and apply the fundamentals of marksmanship on every press of your trigger.
Get out and shoot!!! I am done with my chronograph bitch. In closing, the only sub $200 chronograph that I have ever gotten consistent results from is the Pro-Chrono, not the fold out sheetmetal cans. It has even picked up a rock I threw through it.
voodoo......I personally don't trust chronographs, except for ballpark numbers. Run them across the chrony to get an idea. Take the velocity, input into a ballistics calculator, print off a dope chart, go out and shoot it real life, and record actuals. Now adjust muzzle velocity and your G7 ballistic coefficient until all of your drops match your actuals, and just like magic, you have your actual muzzle velocity. Don't tweak your ballistic coefficient too much though, especially if you got it from Litz's book "applied ballistics".
The only true accurate chronograph is Doppler Radar, and that sob is expensive. The defiencies in your ES and SD will rear their ugly heads at extended ranges. Especially if you do your part and apply the fundamentals of marksmanship on every press of your trigger.
Get out and shoot!!! I am done with my chronograph bitch. In closing, the only sub $200 chronograph that I have ever gotten consistent results from is the Pro-Chrono, not the fold out sheetmetal cans. It has even picked up a rock I threw through it.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
Shooting Chrony's had me chasing my tail for a long time. I finally got to shoot loads that shot great but had crappola numbers (80+ES, 20+SD) over a 3 screen Oehler and all of a sudden they were single digit SD's....
I still feel guilty about selling that POS....
Shooting Chrony's had me chasing my tail for a long time. I finally got to shoot loads that shot great but had crappola numbers (80+ES, 20+SD) over a 3 screen Oehler and all of a sudden they were single digit SD's....
I still feel guilty about selling that POS....
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting Chrony's had me chasing my tail for a long time. I finally got to shoot loads that shot great but had crappola numbers (80+ES, 20+SD) over a 3 screen Oehler...</div></div>
How did you get access to the Ooehler, somebody you know or is it available at the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club? I'd really like to shoot over one as i really feel like my Chrony is not accurate or precise.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting Chrony's had me chasing my tail for a long time. I finally got to shoot loads that shot great but had crappola numbers (80+ES, 20+SD) over a 3 screen Oehler...</div></div>
How did you get access to the Ooehler, somebody you know or is it available at the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club? I'd really like to shoot over one as i really feel like my Chrony is not accurate or precise.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ctressler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting Chrony's had me chasing my tail for a long time. I finally got to shoot loads that shot great but had crappola numbers (80+ES, 20+SD) over a 3 screen Oehler...</div></div>
How did you get access to the Ooehler, somebody you know or is it available at the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club? I'd really like to shoot over one as i really feel like my Chrony is not accurate or precise. </div></div>
Oehler 35P click here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ctressler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting Chrony's had me chasing my tail for a long time. I finally got to shoot loads that shot great but had crappola numbers (80+ES, 20+SD) over a 3 screen Oehler...</div></div>
How did you get access to the Ooehler, somebody you know or is it available at the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club? I'd really like to shoot over one as i really feel like my Chrony is not accurate or precise. </div></div>
Oehler 35P click here.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
I give.
What rifle, what bullet, primer, and how much powder.
You may be out in left field, give us some more information and we might be able to help you more.
SScott [/quote]
Sorry for the delay, I am having Internet trouble.
I am shooting a Ruger M77 in 30-06. A Hornady 150 grain SST. Winchester primers and 56 grain of H4350.
I give.
What rifle, what bullet, primer, and how much powder.
You may be out in left field, give us some more information and we might be able to help you more.
SScott [/quote]
Sorry for the delay, I am having Internet trouble.
I am shooting a Ruger M77 in 30-06. A Hornady 150 grain SST. Winchester primers and 56 grain of H4350.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ctressler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting Chrony's had me chasing my tail for a long time. I finally got to shoot loads that shot great but had crappola numbers (80+ES, 20+SD) over a 3 screen Oehler...</div></div>
How did you get access to the Ooehler, somebody you know or is it available at the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club? I'd really like to shoot over one as i really feel like my Chrony is not accurate or precise. </div></div>
Just gotta know the right folks
I use field dope to get MV now before I'd use a crappy chrono.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ctressler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting Chrony's had me chasing my tail for a long time. I finally got to shoot loads that shot great but had crappola numbers (80+ES, 20+SD) over a 3 screen Oehler...</div></div>
How did you get access to the Ooehler, somebody you know or is it available at the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club? I'd really like to shoot over one as i really feel like my Chrony is not accurate or precise. </div></div>
Just gotta know the right folks
I use field dope to get MV now before I'd use a crappy chrono.....
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use field dope to get MV now before I'd use a crappy chrono..... </div></div>
You have to have a lot of confidence in your BC if you are going to back-calculate MV from field dope. I don't, given that some manufactures seem to inflate them. I guess I could use the data from Litz's book though.
On second thought, I'll check my muzzle velocity based upon pure drop, not dialed dope since the scope might be off just a little. Thanks for the post sobrbiker883
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use field dope to get MV now before I'd use a crappy chrono..... </div></div>
You have to have a lot of confidence in your BC if you are going to back-calculate MV from field dope. I don't, given that some manufactures seem to inflate them. I guess I could use the data from Litz's book though.
On second thought, I'll check my muzzle velocity based upon pure drop, not dialed dope since the scope might be off just a little. Thanks for the post sobrbiker883
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
I check my scope's adjustments for accuracy when I get them....but a good point to make.
I check my scope's adjustments for accuracy when I get them....but a good point to make.
Re: New chrony. Unsatisfactory results.
Annealing, flash hole uniformity, the sky, whether it was overcast or not. All kinds
of things affect velocity. Case prep is the most work but the easiest thing to attack
first.
Annealing, flash hole uniformity, the sky, whether it was overcast or not. All kinds
of things affect velocity. Case prep is the most work but the easiest thing to attack
first.
