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Rifle Scopes New Mark 4s

G

gopherslayer

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 9, 2008
906
1,387
WI
I got the latest issue of ass wipe in the mail yesterday. The new Mark 4 8.5-25 M5 is in it. The internals are almost identical to the 30mm models. Erector held in place by one dual bias spring. They were already rugged and dependable and met their tracking requirements.

Differences are new 34mm tube, turrets, mil/mil, ffp with horus H58.
Price is $3875.

SERIOUSLY?!!

Am i missing something? If I had that kind of cash for a scope I would buy a euro. Again, am I missing something?
 
Re: New Mark 4s

With all the issues they've been having lately for them to price one of their scopes like that is a slap in the face to their customer base or what's left of it.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

I'm one of the few people here who still like Leupold. But for that amount of money I would buy a US Optics, Schmidt & Bender, Hensoldt, Nightforce, and about a half dozen others. Hell, for half that amount of money ($1937.50) I would buy Nightforce, IOR, and many others.

Even for one of the few remaining Leupold loyal customers, I just don't feel I could justify that much money. I just don't think the value for the dollar is there.

As has been pointed out before, the value for dollar in the Leupold line is getting harder and harder to justify in view of the Super Sniper line, Vortex Viper, and so on. Even the Horus scopes are making Leupold's value for dollar look weaker and weaker.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

How do you get a subscription to Ass Wipe???

ROFL

Rich
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm one of the few people here who still like Leupold. But for that amount of money I would buy a US Optics, Schmidt & Bender, Hensoldt, Nightforce, and about a half dozen others. Hell, for half that amount of money ($1937.50) I would buy Nightforce, IOR, and many others.

Even for one of the few remaining Leupold loyal customers, I just don't feel I could justify that much money. I just don't think the value for the dollar is there.

As has been pointed out before, the value for dollar in the Leupold line is getting harder and harder to justify in view of the Super Sniper line, Vortex Viper, and so on. Even the Horus scopes are making Leupold's value for dollar look weaker and weaker. </div></div>

I couldn't have said this any better. I got a very good deal on my Leupold and if I hadn't I would have bought a NF for the fact of it's proven track record. My Leupy is an older model which is very dependable and I will continue to use it as it's passed my tracking test and box test. I just don't think I could feel as comfortable with any of their newer products until we see some sort of change from Leupold.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

I see it as they let their quality go down and to fix it they hung the name "Mark 4" on about everything. Since that was the 2 good scopes they still made and a respected name.

When Leupold saw other "good" scopes (NF and S&B) with larger price tags they think they can get the same money for their products.

But thats just me.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

The new Issue of Shooting Times has a pretty good article on this scope. I like the inovation on the turrets i.e. locking with a indication you can feel when on the second rotation as well as zero stops. Ten mil per rotation in .1 increments with FFP and a choice of Houris or mil dot reticle. 34 mm tube with thicker walls all good features. However it is standard MK4 inside. That price reminds me of the $400.00 toilet seats the goverment bought.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gopherslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Price is $3875.

SERIOUSLY?!!

</div></div>

Thats bad!

I would take a USO SN TPal over that thing anyday... even if the mk4 was 1/3 of the price I still would not buy it.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

HOLLY SHIT!!!! i just glanced at the shooting times article on the new mark 4 and the one thing that caught my eye was not the very over priced mark 4 but that hideous "xm-2010" WHY DOSE EVERY THING HAVE TO HAVE X IN ITS NAME!!!!! im very much a purest when it comes to rifles and this thing is horrendous....the one in the article is like royal green
sorry that this was kinda very off topic
 
Re: New Mark 4s

That would be the latest issue of ass wipe. I paid $12 for 2 years. I take it to work and let the bubbas read it.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

Maybe it's an early April fool's day joke...

I'd buy an NXS and 1k rounds FGGM with that kinda coin
wink.gif
 
Re: New Mark 4s

Whole lotta leupold bashing going on about this new m5. But no one can say they have had the new scope to examine. How can someone getso much from a paper back book with out any real first hand knowledge of the product. I have seen,touched and looked through the new m5 scope. It rates right up there with all the other high dollar european and American glass. Although i have not used it in the feild it is stout in construction and is well built. The knobs were user freindly and can be customized to agency needs or balistics. I have used leupolds in the military and feild. The thing is I never had a problem with getting parts or a replacement or customer service. When i have had a problem with my personnal leupolds(rarely)customer service has been top notch. The longest wait was only 3 weeks for repairs. Cannot say that about other scopes mentioned here. Problem i see here is people take a $4000.00 dollar rifle put a $200.00 brand name scope on it and then complain when it does not perform. All equipment will fail.If its yours or anothers persons things happen. The things is pickup the phone call the manufacter of product explain details get a solution to your need. If that does not work then "BITCH" about it.90% of equipment problems is user error. Leupold is an "AMERICAN" company. We should support it. If you or consumers have a problem with quality call them let them know. I own 2 U.S. optics scopes they have enough adjustments to confuse a four handed whore,but you want here me complain about my inablity to use them as manufacter error or production quality. People complain when "AMERICAN" companies fail,but have have a import in there driveway.Go figure!!!!!!!
 
Re: New Mark 4s

You have a strong point. I have not seen the new scopes. So it is hard to knock it. It might be the best scope someone has ever seen. I personelly have shot Leupys a lot. I own about 15 of them. No problems with them. I do like all the features on the S&Bs but who to say. The Leupys may be the one for some.

I agree. Everybody always wants to get on the wagon and bash pumkins but nobody wants to clean up.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIGTWO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whole lotta leupold bashing going on about this new m5. But no one can say they have had the new scope to examine. How can someone getso much from a paper back book with out any real first hand knowledge of the product. I have seen,touched and looked through the new m5 scope. It rates right up there with all the other high dollar european and American glass. Although i have not used it in the feild it is stout in construction and is well built. The knobs were user freindly and can be customized to agency needs or balistics. I have used leupolds in the military and feild. The thing is I never had a problem with getting parts or a replacement or customer service. When i have had a problem with my personnal leupolds(rarely)customer service has been top notch. The longest wait was only 3 weeks for repairs. Cannot say that about other scopes mentioned here. Problem i see here is people take a $4000.00 dollar rifle put a $200.00 brand name scope on it and then complain when it does not perform. All equipment will fail.If its yours or anothers persons things happen. The things is pickup the phone call the manufacter of product explain details get a solution to your need. If that does not work then "BITCH" about it.90% of equipment problems is user error. Leupold is an "AMERICAN" company. We should support it. If you or consumers have a problem with quality call them let them know. I own 2 U.S. optics scopes they have enough adjustments to confuse a four handed whore,but you want here me complain about my inablity to use them as manufacter error or production quality. People complain when "AMERICAN" companies fail,but have have a import in there driveway.Go figure!!!!!!! </div></div>
 
Re: New Mark 4s

SIGTO there is a reason a lot of people here have their opinions of Leupold. Most is the case of first hand experience. You are right that very few people have put hands on the new ones thus bashing them is a little short sighted. However I can tell you that from my first hand experience I simply can not cough up the coin for a Leupold again. When it comes to bang for the buck NF and Premier have the edge when speaking of US made optics.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIGTWO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whole lotta leupold bashing going on about this new m5. But no one can say they have had the new scope to examine. How can someone getso much from a paper back book with out any real first hand knowledge of the product. I have seen,touched and looked through the new m5 scope. It rates right up there with all the other high dollar european and American glass.</div></div>
The initial point of this thread was that Leupold has added a few features to an existing scope design and doubled the price. But on your point, no one has found Leupold optical quality up to the standards set by Premier, for example, another American company. I looked through the new Leupold scopes at SHOT last year and found nothing exciting, except possibly the CQBSS's innovative (for Leupold) design. SWFA is offering these scopes for $4000 - compare that to the Premier and S&B versions of the 1.1-8x that will retail for about $1400 less. Many are concerned that Leupold will sell its inferior scopes to the military at these inflated prices, when there are better and less expensive scopes available - both the taxpayer and the rifleman suffer, and Leupold doesn't have to ever get the message. That's what the complaint is about!
 
Re: New Mark 4s

its true leupold is a great american company, with a good scope.
But i was not really "BSing" about the scope. I thought the rifle it was mounted on was as ugly and stupid looking as well hammered shit
and that ugly rifle looks like if you drop the rifle once it will snap in half
-sorry for the off topic nature
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: good old lee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> HOLLY SHIT!!!! i just glanced at the shooting times article on the new mark 4 and the one thing that caught my eye was not the very over priced mark 4 but that hideous "xm-2010" WHY DOSE EVERY THING HAVE TO HAVE X IN ITS NAME!!!!! im very much a purest when it comes to rifles and this thing is horrendous....the one in the article is like royal green
sorry that this was kinda very off topic </div></div>


fyi- "XM----" is the number for an EXPERIMENTAL version. It means it has not been type classified as an approved standard issue weapon. After all approval requirements are met and they go into full production it will become the M2010. Also, the military does not have a dash between the letter and number. It's M4 and M16A2, not M-4 and M-16A2. Just doing my part to provide you with basics of information.

Side-track complete
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gopherslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Price is $3875.

SERIOUSLY?!!

Am i missing something? If I had that kind of cash for a scope I would buy a euro. Again, am I missing something? </div></div>
I saw the price too. WOW!!!!
 
Re: New Mark 4s

I think Scott from Liberty Optics explained it best: Leupold is pricing themselves completely out of relevancy.

I like the some of the concepts of this new scope for the most part, but Leupold still is lacking in several areas. Not the least of which is their magnification range, which Ilya pointed out is actually less than 3x. At best, it's a $2k scope. Unfortunately, federal regulations prohibit a company from selling a scope commercially for lower than what the government pays for it. So...charge your biggest customer (US Army) the higher price, and then let the commercial market suffer and fork over the dough. It's a guaranteed paycheck for Leupold due to the contracts.

And no, they're not illuminated. The Army doesn't need illumination due to their NVG devices, so Leupold didn't include it in the design. Leupold said they'll eventually make models some time later this year with illumination to meet the demands of the commercial consumers. I'll be willing to bet the scope will jump to $4k when that happens.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

Leupold has been on a loser for years and after they get told by god knows how many people with a clue to stop shooting themselves in the foot, they say 'ok' and then promptly shoot their other foot off. $3875.00?? What the fuck are they thinking?
 
Re: New Mark 4s

It is not just the 34mm tube scope that is priced way too high - the Horus reticle models seem to be priced about 500-800 higher(depending on vendor) that the mildot or tmr version of their FFP scope. Insane.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

I don't see how anyone can charge anything over $2k for a scope. Prices are getting rediculous. Look at the SWFA 3x9 super sniper for $599. That is a great scope. You mean to tell me that if they added illumination, a zero stop, and locking turrets, they should charge $2k for the scope?
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not just the 34mm tube scope that is priced way too high - the Horus reticle models seem to be priced about 500-800 higher(depending on vendor) that the mildot or tmr version of their FFP scope. Insane. </div></div>


Uhh thats not Leupold look at any Horus offering in any scope it's between $400-$800 whether from NF,Premier,Hensoldt etc.Its the obscene licensing the owner charger per copy.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIGTWO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whole lotta leupold bashing going on about this new m5. But no one can say they have had the new scope to examine. How can someone getso much from a paper back book with out any real first hand knowledge of the product. I have seen,touched and looked through the new m5 scope. It rates right up there with all the other high dollar european and American glass. Although i have not used it in the feild it is stout in construction and is well built. The knobs were user freindly and can be customized to agency needs or balistics. I have used leupolds in the military and feild. The thing is I never had a problem with getting parts or a replacement or customer service. When i have had a problem with my personnal leupolds(rarely)customer service has been top notch. The longest wait was only 3 weeks for repairs. Cannot say that about other scopes mentioned here. Problem i see here is people take a $4000.00 dollar rifle put a $200.00 brand name scope on it and then complain when it does not perform. All equipment will fail.If its yours or anothers persons things happen. The things is pickup the phone call the manufacter of product explain details get a solution to your need. If that does not work then "BITCH" about it.90% of equipment problems is user error. Leupold is an "AMERICAN" company. We should support it. If you or consumers have a problem with quality call them let them know. I own 2 U.S. optics scopes they have enough adjustments to confuse a four handed whore,but you want here me complain about my inablity to use them as manufacter error or production quality. People complain when "AMERICAN" companies fail,but have have a import in there driveway.Go figure!!!!!!! </div></div>

We haven't seen it yet, true. It may yet be the best Leupold yet but no way is it worth 4k.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIGTWO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whole lotta leupold bashing going on about this new m5. But no one can say they have had the new scope to examine. How can someone getso much from a paper back book with out any real first hand knowledge of the product. I have seen,touched and looked through the new m5 scope. It rates right up there with all the other high dollar european and American glass. Although i have not used it in the feild it is stout in construction and is well built. The knobs were user freindly and can be customized to agency needs or balistics. I have used leupolds in the military and feild. The thing is I never had a problem with getting parts or a replacement or customer service. When i have had a problem with my personnal leupolds(rarely)customer service has been top notch. The longest wait was only 3 weeks for repairs. Cannot say that about other scopes mentioned here. Problem i see here is people take a $4000.00 dollar rifle put a $200.00 brand name scope on it and then complain when it does not perform. All equipment will fail.If its yours or anothers persons things happen. The things is pickup the phone call the manufacter of product explain details get a solution to your need. If that does not work then "BITCH" about it.90% of equipment problems is user error. Leupold is an "AMERICAN" company. We should support it. If you or consumers have a problem with quality call them let them know. I own 2 U.S. optics scopes they have enough adjustments to confuse a four handed whore,but you want here me complain about my inablity to use them as manufacter error or production quality. People complain when "AMERICAN" companies fail,but have have a import in there driveway.Go figure!!!!!!! </div></div>

We haven't seen it yet, true. It may yet be the best Leupold yet but no way is it worth 4k. </div></div>

It is probably like the M24 SWS system as a whole, the System when it was purchased by the mil had the whole send it back to us and we will repair and replace any worn parts and the shot out Barrels. The kits were expensive because that repair and replace was built in.

The leupold came with the M24 SWS, I would say that the repair and replace goes for the leupold scopes as well and the price is built in.

Since Leupold can't sell below what they charge the military/Govt. the civilian market get the bill for better or worse, that my take on it.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

Placed a call to leupold yesterday. Asked about pricing on the new m5 scope. Also forward this thread and inqured about the information in shooting times. After about an hour a represenative with the Military arm of Leupold called. He explained that This scope was new from the ground up. It used some of the same procedures and simular parts as a car would from year to year. Inquried about pricing. He said that it has yet to be determined and the scope was still in the development stages. He also said that he does not know how anyone concluded that the scope was in $3800.00 dollar price range when testing and development of same had not been concluded. He also said it was premature to say it would be avaliable to the public due to vendor and manfacture agreements. Also they welcome any imput on quality or manufacturing suggestions for future scopes. But to also keep in mind that longrange shooters and benchrest shooters make up a small percentage of the buying public and tend to be critical of the products they use. He also says that he welcomes any contact from the moderators of this site and would be glad to demonstrate the ablities of the product in question. But up to this point no one had contacted Leupold for any info from this Forum and to contact them through the proper channels for futher info on same. Take from this what you want I asked this is what i got in return.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

chooter,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is not just the 34mm tube scope that is priced way too high - the Horus reticle models seem to be priced about 500-800 higher(depending on vendor) that the mildot or tmr version of their FFP scope. Insane.
</div></div>

It is my understanding from talking to both Nightforce, Horus and Leupold that Horus charges a $500 to $700 premium to use their reticle in some elses scope so your number is not off the mark. The H27 has been discontinued by Horus in lieu of the H37 or H58. I understand Nightforce will be using the H58 in their scopes.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Priest</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What the f*** are they thinking? </div></div>

Probably thinking that their mark 4 M5 (whatever lineup that is FFP and mil/mil from 1500-2k) fulfills the civilian side and these 3k+ dollar monstrosities are the "bend over Uncle Sam" military side of the equation.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

I have not tested out the NEW 34mm scope but I have tested out the NEW 30mm Leupold MK4 M5 and I liked what I saw. The 34mm are nice but I'm not sure if they are $3k+ worth.

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Mike @ CST
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jgarr46322</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It is my understanding from talking to both Nightforce, Horus and Leupold that Horus charges a $500 to $700 premium to use their reticle in some elses scope so your number is not off the mark. The H27 has been discontinued by Horus in lieu of the H37 or H58. I understand Nightforce will be using the H58 in their scopes. </div></div>

The <span style="font-weight: bold">truly</span> remarkable aspect of this, is that so many people, including ones on this site, continue to pay these "premiums" for these shit reticles. They charge that much because people PAY that much. No one to blame but yourself if you choose to buy it.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

hmmm, let me think, would i buy a leuopold scope for the equivalent price of a brand new AIAE?

or i can get this optic, or buy an S&B or hensoldt for hundreds less. . . hold on, im thinking VERY hard about this. . .
 
Re: New Mark 4s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for what they are and that they cost. i'm not impressed. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not tested out the NEW 34mm scope but I have tested out the NEW 30mm Leupold MK4 M5 and I liked what I saw. The 34mm are nice but I'm not sure if they are $3k+ worth.


Mike @ CST </div></div> I'll say one thing... I'm impressed that two different Leupold dealers are on here saying this. Shows integrity gentlemen. Thanks.
 
Re: New Mark 4s

I almost dropped the thing when I found out how much it would be at SHOT show.
 
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