Rifle Scopes New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

[Lindy]

See:

http://www.rianov.com/rianov.html

This item looks interesting. The optical rangefinding method uses a tilt sensor. Basically, you point your scope at the top of the target, then push and hold a button. You point your scope at the bottom of the target, and release the button. It calculates the range.

This unit will work with any scope - no graduated reticle is required, only a reference point in the scope, such as a crosshair.

The tilt sensor has a claimed resolution of 0.002 milliradians. That would give the sensor a resolution of 0.072 inches at a distance of 1000 yards. The accuracy of the method will obviously depend on your ability to resolve the top and bottom of the target in your scope.

Other features of the unit, including a ballistic computer with a load library, are noted on the web site. The unit includes barometric pressure and temperature sensors, but does <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> include a humidity sensor, despite a reference to humidity in the brochure on the web site.

It will be an interesting device to watch for the optical ranging feature alone.

I don't know what the price will be.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

To me it looks like a more complicated, expensive, battery operated, way to perform range estimation using mil dot calculations...

 

[steve123]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To me it looks like a more complicated, expensive, battery operated, way to perform range estimation using mil dot calculations...
</div></div>

and much more accurate.

Thanks for the heads up Lindy!

Steve

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

More accurate if you see the target perfectly, hold the reticle just right, don't move the rifle at all while pressing the button, AND the electronics work as advertised after a few months subject to heat/freeze, dust, bumps, and the always uncertain state of batteries.

Even if all the above is perfect, you still have the uncertainty about object size and presentation angle (are you sure it is exactly the size you think it is, facing squarely to you?), and if the object is small the error will be significant.

I'm pretty sure nobody can hold with any consistency 0.002 milliradians, perhaps 0.03-0.04 mil is closer to field accuracy. This means you have to take two measurements, and the errors may be anywhere from zero up to 0.08 mils. The error when estimating with a mil reticle in the same optimal conditions is up to 0.10 mils.

 

[Bushmaster7]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Lindy, thanks for the info. This looks to be very, very interesting. The elite version still in development also adjusts the scope to the ballistic solution according to their description. Good stuff.

 

[dreamlander]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Not a bad idea, but I don't think it would be very easy to hold on the top or bottom of a target perfectly steady while pushing a button. It is hard enough to do while pulling the trigger, especially at 1k yards. Get out the sandbag or monopod.
Like stated before you still have to know the target size. Which is the real problem for me as I never know the true target size while hunting. (I know this tool isn't designed for hunting)
thanks for the link though

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

My question would be with something like a walking target, how does it work with someone walking, can you range that with ease, more so than winging it by guessing a head to belt height

 

[steve123]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More accurate if you see the target perfectly, hold the reticle just right, don't move the rifle at all while pressing the button, AND the electronics work as advertised after a few months subject to heat/freeze, dust, bumps, and the always uncertain state of batteries.

Even if all the above is perfect, you still have the uncertainty about object size and presentation angle (are you sure it is exactly the size you think it is, facing squarely to you?), and if the object is small the error will be significant.

I'm pretty sure nobody can hold with any consistency 0.002 milliradians, perhaps 0.03-0.04 mil is closer to field accuracy. This means you have to take two measurements, and the errors may be anywhere from zero up to 0.08 mils. The error when estimating with a mil reticle in the same optimal conditions is up to 0.10 mils. </div></div>

Maybe you are right?....

Steve

 

[shooting4life]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Depending on price this might be good for elr (1500+) when you do not want to spend the money on the high end range finders and know the targetsize (steel plate).

 

[CoryT]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

I can see setting this up on the spotter, using a good tripod and gear head I'd expect a pretty good reading, nearly as good as a laser with no downrange signature. I think a remote switch would be almost required, to avoid shake at that sensitivity level.

 

[BFD711]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

I think it would be very difficult to use if there was mirage. A stationary target would seem to be moving slightly or would possibly look magnified.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see setting this up on the spotter, using a good tripod and gear head I'd expect a pretty good reading, nearly as good as a laser with no downrange signature. I think a remote switch would be almost required, to avoid shake at that sensitivity level. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Excellent</span> idea!

Of course the reliability of the reading will only be as good as the object size estimation.

Edited to add: the spotting scope tripod should be mounted very solidly (spikes, sandbags, etc.), and have a good trasverse/elevation adjustment system to avoid moving the scope base from the original position while taking the measurements.

 

[Lindy]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Update:

I exchanged emails with the program developers, and suggested that they might include manual entry of humidity data into the ballistic computer, as many people who might need compensation for that at ELR carry Kestrels or other methods of measureing moisture content of the air.

That is being done.

The entry will default to 50 percent, and can be changed manually by the operator.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

I wouldn't want that mounted on my rail or scope. I use a NF with MLR reticle and it works great. If I need something faster, there are good range finders out there. Familiarity with your dope/distance and you are good to go.

 

[Lindy]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Bill:

Good point.

It would indeed be important to know with precision the actual magnification of the scope for this device to work accurately at range. An error in magnification will result in a range error which is approximately the percentage of magnification error times the range of the object.

It's reasonably easy to estimate that a 2 percent range error will result in a miss on a 20 inch target at 1000 yards with a typical .308, scope magnification calibration will be important.

Of course, precisely the same point might be made about the importance of knowing the magnification of a scope with a second focal-plane reticle, too. I have tested scopes from a prominent manufacturer which could not be used accurately for reticle ranging without compensation, because the power ring did not go high enough for the supplied reticle to be accurate.

I don't yet know if we will get a sample to test.

 

[Sapper524]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

not that it isn't a cool idea or anything ... but its just more crap to carry. Another set of batteries that can fail you. Granted I have been hanving fun with the Ballistics software for my Droid and getting some decent results. But I still pack my logbook with a good ole pencil and paper. Products like this are neat for sure and can make life easier. Nothing beats trained skill and practice though. Those skills are very perishable ... its like having a lazer on your sidearm ... made me lazy in the fundementals. Ill pass ... sure looks "tacticool" though

 

[Lindy]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Not having a backup plan for equipment which might fail is foolish.

For people who shoot on two-way ranges, ignoring technological advances which can give one an edge in a gunfight may amount to committing suicide.

 

[Doc1911]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Someone should be VERY experienced on how to shoot a rifle w/o all the electronic gizmo's. However, after that is learned (but continually practiced), then as they can, they should take advantage of the pertinent new stuff (the good stuff). IMO, we should take advantage of technology available (and as already stated - carry spare batteries, etc.).

Be sure of yourself.
Be sure of your equipment.
Be sure of your shot.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Lindy, I gave technical reasons why I don't think is a practical device on a rifle...

Technological advances are fine, IF they work as advertised. This is still new and untested.

I would love to hear from a few units tested in the real world for a year, how is the realiability, endurance, and an unbiased comparison of the ranging accuracy compared to a Gen II mil dot or TMR reticle, mounted on a rifle.

As we all said before, the reliability of the reading will only be as good as the object size estimation, and scope magnification in case of SFP reticles.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Excessive skepticism is as cheap as excessive optimism.

Lindy's not trying to sell you this, he just pointed out something that is a fairly unique and new product with a fairly interesting proposition. I don't think he should be put in the position of having the defend it's potential as well.

 

[Lindy]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

I don't have a problem with skepticism. People are often skeptical about advances in technology until they are proven to be useful. And not all last - many disappear soon after introduction.

On the other hand, there are existing devices for optical ranging, so there is an application for them, and this one beats the heck out of all of them in terms of size and portability.

I am indeed not trying to sell these. I have my own doubts about the practicality.

There are many questions I have about the device myself, including how accurate and user-friendly the ballistic computer is.

I have proposed to a friend who writes for shooting publications, and especially on optics, that we try to arrange to test one. My friend the writer I expect to be most interested in publication, while my interest is in evaluating the unit for military shooters.

It takes extensive experience to find out how useful a new product is in the real world. The device is still under development, and the specifications are not frozen.

Time - and testing - will tell the tale.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Ratbert, Lindy, agreed...

I was not attacking anyone, just voicing my technically well founded doubts for mounting this device on a rifle. I thik this device has potential for the use CoryT mentioned.

I would like to see compact optical device for passive ranging, comparable in accuracy to the old ones used for artillery. Doable but probably very expensive.

 

[Lindy]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Look how long it took people to accept a mil/mil scope. Now even the dinosaurs at Leupold are on-board.

Or the metric system in the United States! Oh...wait...

 

[goober]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

I had an email from the company making these devices -they sound very interesting -here is Larry from the manufacturing companies email to me .

"We are still working on export control with the US Government and agreements to get the international dealers in place. As soon as we have an agreement on international pricing I will let you know. I am thinking you should expect it to be around $1400-$1500, but don’t hold me to this as it is just a guess for now.



Cheers,

Larry"

 

[hubbell]

Re: New Optical Rangefinder & Ballistic Computer

Any news on the release of the rianov?

I've seen two update, but nothing on the release date:
the mounting has been improved to allow for folding the rianov into the rifle so it is out of the way when not in use and it is a more robust mount, and a new mount for use with a spotting scope.

The use with the spotting scope sounds like a great idea. This technology placed on a firm mount with high magnification should give great ranging results.

 

[scudzuki]

The M06 is the non-military version of the M11 Military Only, The Rianov Solo and CSI are pretty cool, I have access to the first shipment of the solo, I am selling the Rianov Solo, mount and sun visor w/ free shipping for $265.00. US Only Check out Rianov.com for complete specs. I have units available for same day shipping

Every time I see that an ancient thread has been revived, it's a new member digging it up.
I guess it takes a while before people actually look at the dates on the posts.

Joe

 

[Redmanss]

Or it's an unauthorized vendor trying to make a buck for free.

 

[Sporse]

Well -I did read the post date and I am an authorized vendor of Rianov! The Solo has just become available. Its the first shipment of the product, that is why I choose to post here. I thought that guys that were interested might appreciate the info and deal.

Thanks for sharing and sorry for offending you - play nice boys - send it!
[MENTION=41860]Redmanss[/MENTION] - I f--ked up on the post rules in regard to being a hide vendor, corrected the situation! thanks for the help!