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New Powder, retry all bullets?

jmtyndall

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 12, 2010
104
0
35
Washington
Just a quick question here, if I try several bullets with one powder, and one type of bullet groups good so I develop that load, then decide I also want to try another powder, should I retry all the other bullets?

Essentially I'm asking if barrels like certain powder/bullet combination, or if they will like a specific bullet no matter what, then you can try different powders to see if they group better or get better velocity etc?
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

Its all science. Barrels do not have personalities. Powders do.

That being said, there are generally good rules that you can follow to dictate what shoots well.

1) Given your caliber, and your barrels twist rate determine the weight range of projectiles that are considered good for your combination.

2) Determine a powder you would like to use based on its qualities. Faster burning, slower burning, volume, temp sensitivity etc.

3) How accurate do you think is accurate? Is 1moa at 100 yards good enough? Or do you want sub 1/2MOA?

My suggestion, research your powder first. Work out the one thats best for you. See what your local shops have and then research those powders. Chances are you will settle on one just by asking questions and seeing which one everyone else likes... remember, everyone else likes them for a good reason right?

Then after your powder is determing, look into projectiles that fit the bill.

Remember, start slow my friend otherwise you will overload your brain with too many questions.

Whats the rifle your shooting and what are the intentions? Hunting? Target? What ranges are you looking into shooting?
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

I use the critera above to pick 2-3 bullets, that meet my performance needs. I usually decide on one, and then look in my reloading book or on this site for a powder that works well, with the bullet I have selected. I then do a ladder test to see which charge gives me the best potential accuracy / terminal performance. I don't really try to reinvent the wheel, just fine tune it to my rifle. I think your time will be better spent shooting and gathering DOPE on a load that is "good enough" rather than burning a barrel chasing the "perfect load". I don't think you will find the performance difference between the two to be worth the time and effort, unless maybe you are a serious competitor and even then you will reach a point of diminishing returns.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

Exactly.

If he tells us the intended purpose and the rifle maybe we could just get him going in the right direction.

Either way this is what I think according to the current projectiles on the market today

Long range match: Lapua Scenar, Berger VLD, Sierra MatchKing and Hornady A-max

I think Berger have some of the best stuff going around.

For powder I like Varget. Easy to learn with and is forgiving and gives great results.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

For availability, effectiveness, and cost; I generally prefer either Sierra or Nosler.

In most cases, a Sierra match bullet has a corresponding hunting bullet choice that is deliberately designed to closely duplicate the match bullet's ballistic performance.

For me, the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are excellent broad purpose hunting projectiles that exhibit match bullet ballistic performance.

My load development goals take advantage of such relationships, and are intended to reduce the number of bullets and loads I develop and maintain to an irreducible minimum number. Same with propellants. I develop loads with non-match primers, make sure they all jump, replace non-match with match primers only if and when a significant accuracy gain justifies it, and I put the bulk of my energy into trying to manage neck tesion, which is where I find the most accuracy gain for the least experimentation.

Simply put, you change a load component, you change the load. Load redevelopment is necessary, and basically all you've accomplished by altering components is to impose an entire new regimen of load development upon the rifle's expected bore life.

This is an approach I would only follow when all other approaches are impossible.

After about two decades of handloading, I have experimented with just about every technique imaginable, and I have a broad imagination. The joy has long worn off, and it has become a chore, to be accomplished as directly and simply as possible.

Greg
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

I have a Savage 10fp .223 with a 1:9 twist. I've heard that savage 9" twists will often stabilize some 80gr bullets, however I was going to test some 68-77gr offerings. The problem is, theres like 12 bulkets that fit the bill. I plan to mostly shoot 300-600 with it, and i can always come up with a varmint load for it later. Given that kind of shooting I should probably stick with the 75-77gr range. I am looking at the hornady 75hpbt, 75 amax, 75 berger vld and 77smk in that area. As for powders, I've got varget and r15 narrowed down as my two choices, unless theres something else i should look at.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

JM,
Make your life easy. Win case, Fed 205M primer, 77 smk seated just off the lands and 24 grains Ramshot TAC. Drop it right out of the measure.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

Or, Mil brass, small match primer, 75gr HDY HPBT Match (Moly) at 2.400" OAL, and 26.5gr(C*) of Ramshot Big Game. Developed for the Sav 10FP 1:9" barrel.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

Now that you have your powders worked out, look at the one that fits the bill the best, be it price or availability or even performance.

600 yards is a significant distance for a .223 so go for a projectile that works very well at those distances. Chances are you will end up using this as your varmint projectile as well.

Being a .223 you might even look into some short range varmint projectiles that offer explosive type results.

keep it as simple as possible and reduce your options down to only a small few that should work well for you.

If i were in your boat I would go with varget, possibly some sierras or whatever else looks good for match grade .223 projectiles that get stabilised in your barrel. Then I would look into some varmint grenades just for fun on critters at shorter ranges.

OR just use the one round for everything.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

Considering the last two posts, I may read a little more about powders, but I already have a couple pounds of varget around, so I'll probably stick with that. I've narrowed down my bullet choice to 4, as I'm pretty sure I can get a 75 to stabilize in this barrel.

Going to try out
Berger 75 VLD
Sierra 77 MK
Hornady 75 HPBT
Hornady 75 AMAX

The Sierra's don't have the BC I'd like to see, but people seem to think they're gods gift to the earth, so I might as well try them. Or not, depends how the others shoot.

Any of them, or 60gr Vmax bullets should do well for varmints also.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

Im not too sure about your rifle, but dont invest in a shit load of the VLD's until you can safely say they shoot well in your rifle and can still mag feed or not be obstructed by a feeding ramp.

They shoot well in my rifle, but like my Lapua projectiles I cant load them to mag length if i want them to shoot with top accuracy.

Most bullets shoot well when touching the lands or jumping a bees dick into them, however the VLD is probably the projectile with the biggest attitude of them all... in most cases it needs to be at the lands to shoot how they were intended. There are others out there who say they shoot well jumped however I would like to see what extreme distances they are shooting and what they consider accurate.

They are like trophy wives/girlfriends... they do well and look great when treated how they want to be treated, but turn to shit when you dont hand over the credit card.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

My only thoughts on Varget and other powders in the speed range is that they tend to be a bit faster than I believe is optimal for the 'heavy for chambering' bullets. I think they peak out before filling the case.

I see them as what I'd use for loads I prefer W748 in.

For this sort of application, I'd prefer W760, H-414, or R/S Big Game; they seem to allow more load density. I think that's beneficial to LR accuracy.

Greg
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

I wasn't gonna buy a ton of anything. Just 100 or so of each, try out a few loadings, if they shoot good, then I'll keep using em, if not, I'll ditch em.

As far as touching the lands, no problem, I'll just have 1 load for feeding from the internal mag for hunting or tactical type matches, and one that I single feed for the more precision stuff.

Greg: I haven't heard anything about them, but I'll do some reading. This is one of those times when quickload would be nice haha

Edit: How are those powders with temperature. I know Varget is very insensitive, and I like that. I'd rather have one load if I shooting rain or shine, summer of winter.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

JM,
About those bullets. I am very biased about them. I have shot a minimium of 10,000 rds per year, for many years.
Here is my take.
Sierra is the only bullet mfg that IMO gives true BC,s. I have many times seen bullets with higher listed BC's at identical velocities not shoot as flat at LR as Sierra's will. I saw this last weekend in a 300 H&H that a friend brought to sight in. Chrono comfirms it time and time again.
Sierra is the winning bullet in most fields of metallic cartridge compitition, and likely spends more on testing & R&D than all the others combined. At the industry leader they cannot indulge in BS claims.
With Sierra, you will not be sitting on the sidelines waiting for the next run of 62 grain VlD's then find they have been changed and you need a new load.
After 45 years of reloading and shooting dozens of brands of bullets, I will say this.
BUY SIERRA BULLETS FOR TARGET AND SMALL TO MEDIUM GAME AND BUY BARNES TTS FOR LARGE/HEAVY GAME.
You will make your life simple and have the best at all times. JMO
RTH
I have no connection to either company.
I also think Varget is over rated as to temp insensitivity, and has struggled with lot to lot uniformity.
 
Re: New Powder, retry all bullets?

The information i've found regarding vargets consistency seems to stem from the late 90s. There doesn't seem to be much data for that anymore. But I'll look back into it. From what i already shoot varget is quite stable with respect to temp.

As for the sierra bullets. I may end up trying them still. But Ill probably try the others first. I do believe sierras are good bullets, but I also believe they are probably over-rated. The one precision club i talked to, i saw far more red bullet boxes than green ones.