$1600 for the G3 Razor? Even after the recent price hike?
Rifle Scopes New Primary Arms PLXC 1-8 FFP
- Thread starter 308ftWIN
- Start date
I can only speak for my $1500 Liberty optics 1-10
Forgot to add: the new PLxC that is sitting in front of me has the "METERS" version of the BDC reticle. I measured it on the collimator. It seems to make sense to me. For personal use I prefer mrad, but I would guess that well more than half of the LPVOs sell with BDC reticles, so this is probably the one that is relevant to most people.
ILya
ILya
I'll likely be getting a new PLX 1-8 to T&E in the next month or so.
If I do I'll post a review here on the Hide.
If I do I'll post a review here on the Hide.
Unfortunately they're no longer close to that price. Also, while PA optics don't go on sale often, you're comparing a super sale price to what is basically MSRP.
Also, this has a weight (~4.5 oz based on manufacturer claims) and size advantage over the G3. It seems like a direct competitor to the NX8, and an alternative to the G3. Where the new 1-10 VUDU looks like a copy of the G3.
I'm looking forward to see how it stacks up.
That's pretty normal for new product innovation... Someone does something new/innovative, competitors monitor if the product works and the market responds positively, if so they develop their own versions...It’s interesting to me that for a decade of LPVOs there has been maybe one 1-10, now a half dozen~ish 1-10s are rolling out at the same time
Something about imitation being the most sincere for of flattery... Vortex has driven/is driving the market. Good on them.
@marsh1 Will this be available with the original Griffin Mil reticle from the legacy Plx 1-8?
I have the Plx 1-8 with the Griffin Mil reticle, and I have to say I like the original Griffin Mil reticle a lot better than the new M8 version for two reasons:
1. As someone who uses their LPVO as a red dot at 1x, I want a totally clean FOV with nothing but an Eotech-style horseshoe/dot (which makes the original reticle really fast). In my opinion, cutting the horseshoe size in half and going to a full duplex is a big step backward to the early days of LPVOs. It segments your FOV at 1x, and removes the functionality of the horseshoe, both of which I consider highly undesirable for close-range dynamic shooting.
2. The wind holds are a nice touch, but with the mil grid just below, I don't really see them as adding any functionality, just clutter.
I could have bought an ATACR 1-8, or Vortex G3, or a Marche, but I bought the Plx, because I liked the griffin mil reticle so much better for the LPVO role than anything else out there.
Having said all that about the new reticle, I love everything else that you've done with the new optic and am looking forward to Ilya's review and others. Paired with the original Griffin Mil reticle, I think this new optic would be just about perfect.
I have the Plx 1-8 with the Griffin Mil reticle, and I have to say I like the original Griffin Mil reticle a lot better than the new M8 version for two reasons:
1. As someone who uses their LPVO as a red dot at 1x, I want a totally clean FOV with nothing but an Eotech-style horseshoe/dot (which makes the original reticle really fast). In my opinion, cutting the horseshoe size in half and going to a full duplex is a big step backward to the early days of LPVOs. It segments your FOV at 1x, and removes the functionality of the horseshoe, both of which I consider highly undesirable for close-range dynamic shooting.
2. The wind holds are a nice touch, but with the mil grid just below, I don't really see them as adding any functionality, just clutter.
I could have bought an ATACR 1-8, or Vortex G3, or a Marche, but I bought the Plx, because I liked the griffin mil reticle so much better for the LPVO role than anything else out there.
Having said all that about the new reticle, I love everything else that you've done with the new optic and am looking forward to Ilya's review and others. Paired with the original Griffin Mil reticle, I think this new optic would be just about perfect.
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I found that the crosshair helps with centering my focus on the POA with 1x if the red dot isn't bright enough compared to your typical eotech. This is my experience using March Shorty with DR-1. However, for close quarter eotech reticle is still the fastest IMO
The Plx 1-8 is absolutely daylight bright in full Arkansas summer sun. But then again, I'm not shooting in full sun over snow, but I can't help but think that would only apply to a fairly limited number of users.
Exactly my point. That's why I like the original reticle better than everything else out there.
Current gen Platinum series at 1x on setting 9 on a bright winter day
My thoughts as well. Though I have never handled one, I am sure they are solid scopes based on all the good reviews they get. However, at $1500 I think PA is pricing themselves too close to better known and more established competitors.
CM
Really interested in how the illumination turns out on this one, looking forward to your review.
Once I am back from SHOT, I'll spend some time with it outdoors and see how it does.
ILya
Close enough that there is no reason to buy a PA when you can spend a little more for a G3 or even a NX8.
4 oz on a 7-9lb rifle, nobody cares or is going to notice.
The Vudo 1-6 FFP came out BEFORE Vortex came out with the G3, which is their first FFP LPV Razor. If anything, Vortex stole the idea from them, except there are about half a dozen other FFP LPV's that beat both to market.
BDC in a scope in 2022 is just laughable. Unless its a military optic slaved to a known load (Such as the 14.5 and 20" ACOGS or the M145 for M80) its just retarded.
Dumb people will keep buying dumb products becuase they haven't been educated yet. Ignorance is a great salesman.
Though generally I agree with this premise there’s also those of us who understand the limitations, and make it work because we can’t put whatever reticle we want in an optic, we have to live with what the EOMs give us. I’m not fond of the reticle in the G3 MOA scope, I’d prefer something like an NF NPR1, but nothing like this is available in the 1-10 G3 or the ATACR. Maybe an NX8 would have been the better choice but eye box as compared to the two above was a concern.
Nature of having a lot of good choices I guess.
Curious if PA is stepping up to the plate like Vortex did some years back?
Jesus, you must be the life of every party...
I'd notice another 4-5 oz on top of a rifle... Just because you look for specific attributes doesn't mean everyone wants what you want.
I was mostly talking about the 1-10. Not many people give a fuck about a FFP 1-6. Lots of brands put out LOW manufactured 1-6 FFP LVPOs that don't anymore.
It's not difficult not make BDCs for work. Doesn't even take math anymore, just some simple data, an app and a little dope.
BTW, the cheap price on a G3 is now $2k...
BDC are slower less intuitive and just plain stupid outside of the examples I already gave.
Who the fuck wants to know that 1 means 143 yards 2 means 185 yards 3 means 264 yards 4 means 381 and 5 means 675. Your buddy who is spotting tells you are off 1.5mils. Sorry bubba how many mils is in each "BDC" unit? Oh your 6.5cm requires 7.5 mils at 1K. How many BDC's is that?
There is a reason we use Mils (and even Moa for the boomers). Its a universal measurement that we all speak.
You aren't noticing 4 oz on a fully kitted carbine/rifle. As someone who has humped hundreds of miles with one, its negligible. Maybe lift some weights or something.
1-6FFP is 95% as effective as a 1-10. The extra 4 on the top aren't as useful as your think, especially since you have no parallax adjustment. The LOW brands stopped making the 1-6FFP because they were mostly dogshit. They were not daylight bright, they had terrible reticles and abysmal eyeboxes. Eotech which is a Jappense OEM has a 1-6 that is a superior design. Now they have a 1-10.
Illya, I will take all the help I can get. This is a ground up new no compromise optical design with all new turret design as well. Like always our goal is to outperform at the price point.
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Nothing in the near term but our new Houston facility will give us capabilities to do things we were not able to in the past.
You can adjust/compensate BDCs with different zeros. Although I've not experienced much issue with BDC's grossly mismatching my drops.
I think you need to accept that many/most people are not looking for the same things as you.
I have an early LOW FFP 1-6, and it's fine for all the reasons you found fault. But the FOV is terrible and FFP isn't needed and doesn't help with 1 mil divisions.
That's a whole lot of assuming every gun owner is a lab grown clone of you, that happens to have the same guns using the same ammo for the same purposes. Not sure what percentage of LPVO's users always work in a shooter/spotter team format, but I'd put money on it being low.
@marsh1 don't listen to all the super snipers, keep making BDC's for all us losers out here.
This is a very simple thing to do and should be common knowledge. And if done properly, can make your BDC match very closely to whatever load you are using
On my most recent build, I zero'd at 50 yards, gathered dope at 300 and 600 and used a ballistic calculator to adjust my zero as to allow the BDC to match better. Now, a simple .3 mil up adjustment at 50 yards allows my BDC to be +/- 1/2 MOA all the way out to 600 yards. I am not stuck on BDC's, but with the above method I find them very useful for certain weapon systems.
CM
No shit. Go back and read what I wrote.
It's not intuitive. You can make up any unit of measurement and calculated/translate. Its slow, a pain in the ass and you end up talking 2 different "languages" instead of 1. BDC's were designed to simplify optics for military weapon systems and to dumb down holds overs for hunters who might learn something between taking hits of meth and downing Bud Lights. 20 years ago when most people were ignorant and we did not have easy access to the knowledge we have today, it made sense. We know better now.
Most people are buying shit that they don't understand. That is the simple facts. Our jobs here should be to educate them so they don't make poor purchases and come to regret it later.
I can make "anything" work. I could drive a horse to work or get my electricity from a water wheel. When you have superior options, you take those.
All of the earlier LOW FFPs (with maybe the exception of the Vudu, not sure who makes it) suck. They are not daylight bright, they have poor reticles , super tight eyeboxes and cheap plastic turrets. I owned most of them at one time or another trying to find a cheaper alternitive to the Short Dot.
There is ZERO reason to use a BDC type reticle when you have Mil Trees available unless you are slaved to a known load/weapon system that is already calibrated such as the ACOG or M145. Everyone speaks in Mils or Moa. Why the fuck would you want to have to learn/use/understand another system unique to one optic? Thats fucking retarded. Its not making anything easier, its making things harder for the mouth breathers who if anything, need shit simplified.
Damn. You sound angry as fuck because not everyone’s brain works the same as your apparent master brain.
What’s intuitive to you may not be for someone else. Clearly people use BDCs and appreciate them for what they are. Careful calling things retarded when you’re misspelling words because you spell phonetically...like a child
Damn. You sound angry as fuck because not everyone’s brain works the same as your apparent master brain.
What’s intuitive to you may not be for someone else. Clearly people use BDCs and appreciate them for what they are. Careful calling things retarded when you’re misspelling words because you spell phonetically...like a child
Damn, I forgot to come back to this thread and almost missed this gold...
If you can make a BDC reticle work, there's almost nothing more intuitive than lining up the 3 line with 300 yards (or whatever you've tuned it for)...
Although, I guess I don't know who you're talking to in mils while trying to quickly get off shots at various ranges, shooting into blindingly bright snow... You have some weird fringe use cases... I must be too ignorant to understand what's going on during your sasquatch hunts...
Perhaps you don't shit up a new product intro thread with your oddly specific use case demands.
Tell me how you tune a load to line up at 3 for 300 yards? Does it still work at 4 or 2 or anything. What is your zero now? Do you create some unicorn load that only works with some of that BDC? Do you have a cheat sheet to convert everything over? Are all your number some random drop distance?
You simply do not understand what you are talking about. I have ran these types of optics for over 20 years and know exactly how they work and what the shortcomings are of different features. Its not hard to understand unless you have no experince, which is obvious you don't. I have used PA LPVS in the past and found them to come up short, hence why I asked if they fixed the issues in this thread. Sounds like that is a resounding NO. Some assholes wanted to argue about things they don't understand so they were given an education. Stop crying.
We cannot control environmental factors. An optic needs to work everywhere in every condition or its deficient. Lets tell the bad guys or the steel that we can't play today because the sun is to bright and I can't see the reticent. Ask Frosty the snowman to hold off that blizzard while you are at it. If someone lives in an area where there is snow on the ground 4 months of the year, what do you tell him? Must be a bunch of fringe uses. Maybe you can only use your rifle when there is an overcast or at night. Good plan.
Pretty funny to think you're always the smartest guy in the room and yet not know how easy it is to get most any BDC to line up plenty close enough with most common ammo.
Pretty funny how you don't understand that you will have a zero different than 100 or 50/200 so you can actually hit what you need to on 1X.
As has been said, you can make anything work. It doesn't mean its intuitive, easy, efficent or fast.........You know the fucking reasons why a LPV is desirable in the first place.
You should read more and post less.
This just reminded me of another reason I like BDC's. I've got 5.56 AR's from 10.5"-18" right now with almost every length in 1 inch increments in between, and I'll be damned if I'm going to remember and or reference my dope for each individual gun when I can just adjust my zero for each one to get close to the BDC, verify at range then never think about it again.
Nah. Across a bunch of different barrel lengths my close zeros are between 45-60 yards with far zeros like 190-220. That's very acceptable. Weird how you think you know where my rifles are zeroed.
This is exactly right. I use the same method and all of my rifles with BDC's are +/- 1 MOA from 100-600 yards based on actual live fire data collection. This is somewhat common knowledge and I would say anyone who doesn't know how to do this this needs to read more and get some better understanding.
BDC work so well that Trijicon had to make different versions of the TA-31 for the M4 and M16. Both shooting exact same bullet but with a 5.5" barrel length difference. The Marines bought both versions depending what they were going on.
I believe you, I really do.
I believe you, I really do.
SHIT. I am at SHOT not on the forums full time. We are introducing with a MIL and 2 BDC reticles (yard and meters). The scope is 100% new (our design) made by LOW. It has our conventional illumination that has been in our current PLx for years. Adding refractive brighter reticle is easy to do if the demand is there. It just adds significant cost. I made the decision to introduce without to stay at $1,500. (EDIT: It is not that easy to add the refractive reticles but within our capabilities)
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Hello, are you the same user who used to post here as CrabsAndFootball (or some other combination of capitals in that handle)?
Genuine question, and nothing implied.
Sweet. Any chance you would send that one to me for a lifelong review? I'll pay for shipping...
I'm totally kidding
looking forward to these guys putting the word out, love the form factor of it. Last edited:
Excited about this and RIDICULOUSLY excited about the GLX 1-10
And for the record, I will be choosing the Raptor BDC reticle because this will be a dedicated 1 rifle scope.
Once it’s zeroed, I don’t need my “buddy to spot my misses”,
And for the record, I will be choosing the Raptor BDC reticle because this will be a dedicated 1 rifle scope.
Once it’s zeroed, I don’t need my “buddy to spot my misses”,
Well spotted
The Vudu is tempting, minus the fact that the illum controls are push button. They really screwed that up.
Funny thread. It's been mentioned a couple times here that the single most important thing on an LPVO is an extremely bright dot. I disagree. IMO, the single most important thing on an LPVO is an offset or piggybacked mini red dot. If you really care about the fastest 1x performance, it didn't come from any optic with a tube full of glass that shadows outside of perfect cheek weld in a dynamic environment.
If you say the speed difference is too neglible to matter, then so is the difference between somewhat lit and brightly lit. You don't get it both ways. We are either going for the fastest setup or someone's idea of the best compromise. Pick one.
If you say the speed difference is too neglible to matter, then so is the difference between somewhat lit and brightly lit. You don't get it both ways. We are either going for the fastest setup or someone's idea of the best compromise. Pick one.
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Is the GLx 1-10 still happening? I haven’t heard anything about it since marsh said they weren’t happy with the prototype
I to am interested if this is still happening
Yes Glx 1-10 is scheduled for production. I will get ETA on Monday
Is the GLX 1-10 being made in the Philippines with sourced Japanese glass? I'm just curious as to why it's in the GLX like not the PLX? Thanks
Is there a release date for the gen 2 plx 1-8 ? Feb?
