New Reloaded

[anthony20031]

How did all of you guys get started? I mean in terms of did you load for accuracy right out of the box in trying to find the perfect OAL and finding the lands etc?

Reason I ask is I am new to reloading and am about to finally re-load my first rounds (.308). I hear all about OAL and loading to the lands but being this is my first time and I already have a pucker facter going on I wanted to load exactly as to how the manuals I have read stated. For instance I am re-sizing my fired cases and putting them in the Wilson Case Guage and making sure it fits as it should and then obviously I plan on starting off on the minimum charges (obviously and then working up slowly) and then seating the bullet to get to the OAL as stated in the manual. FYI I am loading 175 SMKs and primarily using the Sierra Manual.

Once I get more comfortable and the pucker facter has gone down a little lol, I will start playing with loading to the lands etc. Is that how all of you first started? I guess just looking for peace of mind before I load my first batch of rounds lol.

Also when checking the headspace some of them fall just slightly below minimum on the guage, but I am talking by eyesight it looks fine but by running a finger over it you can feel the lip of the guage is slightly higher than the case head. Can these be fired or is it best just to throw them out? With that said I have put some already fired but not yet re-sized cases into the gauge and they are either perfectly level with the minimum or a slightly bit higher (but below the max).

I am currently using a completely stock 700 SPS Tactical.

 

[GreenMtnRidgeRunner13]

Re: New Reloaded

I started almost 2 years ago in the same shape. Length is going to depend on whether you want to mag feed or not. I use mine to hunt and my chamber would support rounds that won't fit in my mag so I just went with a length that works in my mag. Then you will want to perform and OCW or Ladder test, depending on your setup and preference. I used OCW and found the charge weight I wanted that way. For me I loaded for my 300WM first and without playing with the length and just shooting off a bipod I had 1.5" groups at 200M with Nosler Ballistic tips and not quite so good with Game Kings.

From other things I have read on here, your need to start with your bullet and charge weight first anyways and then tune the length.

 

[justinbaker]

Re: New Reloaded

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony20031</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did all of you guys get started? I mean in terms of did you load for accuracy right out of the box in trying to find the perfect OAL and finding the lands etc?

Reason I ask is I am new to reloading and am about to finally re-load my first rounds (.308). I hear all about OAL and loading to the lands but being this is my first time and I already have a pucker facter going on I wanted to load exactly as to how the manuals I have read stated. For instance I am re-sizing my fired cases and putting them in the Wilson Case Guage and making sure it fits as it should and then obviously I plan on starting off on the minimum charges (obviously and then working up slowly) and then seating the bullet to get to the OAL as stated in the manual. FYI I am loading 175 SMKs and primarily using the Sierra Manual.


Once I get more comfortable and the pucker facter has gone down a little lol, I will start playing with loading to the lands etc. Is that how all of you first started? I guess just looking for peace of mind before I load my first batch of rounds lol.

Also when checking the headspace some of them fall just slightly below minimum on the guage, but I am talking by eyesight it looks fine but by running a finger over it you can feel the lip of the guage is slightly higher than the case head. Can these be fired or is it best just to throw them out? With that said I have put some already fired but not yet re-sized cases into the gauge and they are either perfectly level with the minimum or a slightly bit higher (but below the max).

I am currently using a completely stock 700 SPS Tactical. </div></div>



with your gun, you most likely wont be able to reach the lands and feed from the magazine.

so seating at 2.8 will be fine. I have the same gun, and can seat to 2.83 and still feed


as for the sizing issue, if they are fired in your gun, you wont need to full length size them for a couple of firings. You can neck size them only

but to really get control i would get a set of case comparators

midway link

these will allow you to Full length size the minimum amount needed to chamber




and when i first started out, no i was not chasing the lands. i loaded to book length, but i was reloading for hunting rounds and not really shooting past 300-400 yards.

 

[crewchef]

Re: New Reloaded

Would consider your pucker factor a good thing, helps keeps all your parts attached to both your rifle and body. Fairly new to reloading myself but pucker factor is a little less now. Read the posts here by TresMon if you haven't already. Also recommend the book Handloading for Competition by Glen Zediker. These really helped me get a better understanding of the process. Try to load the very best round you can right from the start. Forces you to really pay attention to every step in the process and to take your time.

Besides that my best advice is don't try to copy anyone else's loads. Know what your components are and work up your own loads from safe starting point. You might not always reach the published max load before you see pressure. Experienced that when I started because I was using Federal brass. Reference I was working off of used Winchester which has more capacity. I had cratered primers and heavy bolt at 1 full grain under the max.

 

[Beef82]

Re: New Reloaded

I have a 700SPS-V, I like mag feeding and load to mag length which is a long way from the lands. On late model rem .308s the bullet is usually just about falling out of the neck when you get to them. Mine still gets me under 1/2 MOA, with the right loads, and right around MOA with numerous. I've not been reloading too long, I prefer to find a load that shoots sub MOA by picking a powder and using .5gr increments and then try .2gr on either side of the best, once I get what I believe to be the ideal powder weight, I'll try different primers, in a rifle where I can reach the lands I'd play with seating depth at this point. The idea is one variable at a time. And always watch for pressure signs.

 

[anthony20031]

Re: New Reloaded

Thanks guys that was pretty much my plan but I wanted to see what others did becuase most of what I have read seem to be more experienced reloaders talking about loading to the lands etc.

With that said a few of my case heads are a teeny bit lower than the minimum on the head space guage. Are these safe to fire or should I just toss them them. I mean the difference is tiny. I was planning on just tossing them but I figured I would just check with other more experienced before I wasted the brass by tossing it.

I have checked fired but not yet re-sized and they fit perfectly in the case guage so I guess I will get the die just to resize the neck.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: New Reloaded

I started 30 years ago and before Al Gore had invented the internet. Everything I knew came from a Lyman Reloading Manual and various gun magazine articles. I didn't try to get too fancy. I wanted as accurate ammo as I could make that would fit into my magazines. The only stretched-out ammo I made was for a single shot Ruger No. 1.

Everything else has come with more knowledge, more experience, and more money for tools. I learned early on not to try and do too much too fast. And there's nothing at all wrong with having a healthy pucker factor.

I learned a lot from Glen Zediker's book mentioned above, but damn that thing is hard to read. I bet I've been through it 5-6 times now and he still confuses the hell out of me sometimes. There is no way I'd have gotten through it without already having years of experience.

 

[anthony20031]

Re: New Reloaded

So what neck sizing die to you guys use? I went to a local store near me and unfortunately they do not carry neck sizing dies and so I will have to order online. I currently use RCBS dies (in a Lee press).

Figured I would just order the RCBS but figured I would see if anyone recommends any other ones.

 

[crewchef]

Re: New Reloaded

I use a Lee Collet for neck followed by Redding body die to FL size and bump shoulder .001.

Differing opinion on the Lee die but works well for me. Here's a link to good discussion about it;

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?48671-lee-collet-dies-neck-tension

 

[jagged77]

Re: New Reloaded

The Lee Collet die works extremely well and its cheap. I also use in conjunction with a Redding body die (although I use the body die first and then the Lee).

 

[anthony20031]

Re: New Reloaded

But why use both the neck die and the fl die? Isn't the whole purpose of using the neck die to avoid having to use the fl if the brass was fired in the gun you are using the reloads for?

 

[jagged77]

Re: New Reloaded

The Redding body die isn't a FL die as such, what it does is size the shoulders and body but leaves the neck untouched. It means you can bump back the case for repeatable results and guaranteed feeding but still utilise an accurate neck sizing die in order to control tension and run-out.

 

[anthony20031]

Re: New Reloaded

Ah ok I just misread and assumed FL die. Guess I have to pick up the body die as well for future use. Thanks

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: New Reloaded

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OldTex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I I learned a lot from Glen Zediker's book mentioned above, but damn that thing is hard to read. I bet I've been through it 5-6 times now and he still confuses the hell out of me sometimes. There is no way I'd have gotten through it without already having years of experience. </div></div>

Yes, Zediker is very good, but try hard to read. Try instead "The Book of Rifle Accuracy" by Tony Boyer. While Tony is a champion bench rest shooter, his reloading sections are VERY applicable to anyone. And, his book reads a LOT (LOT!!) easier than Zediker's!

Jim G

 

[Beef82]

Re: New Reloaded

You can get similar results from a bushing type full length sizing die. Or you could use your full length die when needed (when the bolt gets hard to close) and neck size the rest of the time. Or get a neck size/shoulder bump die. There's pretty much no wrong way to go about it, just personal preference. Try not to get too caught up in acquiring equipment, master what you've got then decide what you need or you may spend allot of money for little or no gain.

 

[anthony20031]

Re: New Reloaded

Ok one last question.

So I cleaned, de-primed and full length sized about 40 cases. After I re-sizing them all I then put them in a case guage (also tried in the chamber). Stupidly I should have re-sized just one and then put it in the guage to check headspacing to see if I need to adjust the die. Some of the case heads are just below the minimum on the guage (barely below). Now I was planning on chucking them out but figured I would post here to see if they were salveagble/shootable.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: New Reloaded

Try reading the information in the front of any good loading manual, yes Lyman is one of the best. YOU DON"T NEED NECK DIES.......EVER! I don't know how the hell I ever lived without them the first ten years I loaded and the last 20. Learn how to properly set up a FL sizing die, it is a skill few possess today and is far more useful than knowing how to use a neck die.
Keep it simple, crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Spend a few years getting familiar with basic loading techniques. Good ammo does not require neck sizing, sorting brass, the latest gizmos and gadgets to measure headspace and OAL. Gadgets are nice but there are methods us old timers use that are just as good and twice as affordable. You might be surprised at how useful a candle can be at measuring OAL and setting up proper headspace.

 

[anthony20031]

Re: New Reloaded

Yes I have read several and that includes the Lyman. I also do know how to properly set up a FL size die. I just made the mistake (stupid as I stated in my previous comment) set it up per the instructions thinking that it would properly size and I do think the cases are fine becuase you can't even notice a difference in the headspace guage unless running it with your finger. However I was just stating as a first time reloader I was going to toss them which I think is the right thing to do but thought I would ask here as people have more actual true experience than I do. I know that I need to back out the FL die slightly.

Also if it is true that neck sizing will help stretch the life of the brass I would think it is worth it no? Especially the benefit of having a case that is already fire formed to my chamber. Granted like you say the whole reason I opted to FL re-size in the first place was to go through the whole process and take baby steps when first starting.

And I believe I understand the trick you are referring to about the candle as that is one that I read in the manual.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: New Reloaded

Don't worry about the ones that are sized a bit too much. One time won't hurt unless you are shooting some really hot reloads, just do better next time. You can actually use a FL die like a neck die sizing as little or as much of the neck as you would like. I have stated before here that I have seen a lot of competition shooters come to the line with a box full of neck sized ammo that fewer than half would chamber up and fire. Neck sizing can and will come with its own brand of headaches, none of which are worth the theoretical extra brass life. If you compare neck sizing to improper FL sizing you will always see better brass life from neck sizing. Proper FL sizing has netted me brass life beyond the life of the primer pocket in all the cartridges I load. The only time I ever have to trim brass is immediately after I anneal. Brass that grows little has been properly sized and lasts a long time. I have neck sized in the past. I have tried collet dies in the past. I ended up throwing them away or selling them because they caused me some real problems on match day. To each his own. Neck size if you like not telling you not to, but don't think that it is making your ammo more accurate or your brass last longer. There are just as many world class shooters who FL size as there are who neck size.
Glad to see you are on the right track and going slow. Keep your head about you and you will do fine.

 

[1J04]

Re: New Reloaded

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You might be surprised at how useful a candle can be at measuring OAL and setting up proper headspace. </div></div> May I be so bold as to ask how this works. And as a fairly new reloader I'd very much like to hear your take on properly setting up FL die. I'm just loading new brass right now and have not yet made up my mind as to neck size or FL due to setting up insecurity's. More info the better for us newbies. Thx

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: New Reloaded

Bullet seating depth:
You can make up dummy rounds. Take a fired round and resize the neck 3/4 way down with a FL sizing die. *Yes you can use a FL die in this manner.* Greg L has mentioned it a time or two in these pages. Seat a bullet a bit long in the case and smoke the bullet with a candle. Now slide the cartridge in the action and try to close the bolt, won't close so extract and notice the lovely rifle land marks in the smoke. Wipe the smoke off and seat a bit deeper. Smoke the bullet again and rinse and repeat until the bullet shows no rifling marks, you are now pretty close to jam length of THAT particular bullet if you switch bullets I would reccomend new dummy rounds and repeat this process. With a dummy round like this you can use it to set up your seating die.
Better: Take a dremel tool or small hacksaw and split a case new is ok but a fired case that has been neck sized almost fully to the shoulder will be better. Split to just past the neck shoulder junction. Insert bullet and insert round into chamber, close bolt and extract round carefully. Now measure length to lands with bullet comparator and calipers. You may need to use small vice grips (needle nose is good for stuff like 223) and lock on neck to hold bullet tight in case, then measure with comparator. You may need to do this a couple times to make sure the bullet isn't sticking in the lands and pulling out a bit as you extract. If you stick the bullet just knock it out carefully with a coated cleaning rod, I usually drop an 80gr 224 down the muzzle and it knocks a larger bullet right out. If you stick an 80gr 223 in the lands of course you will have to use the cleaning rod.
FL ide setup using smoke:
Smoke the neck of the lubed case lightly on one side. Put your sizing die into the press and screw down to shellholder and back out a full turn. Now take the smoked LUBED (never forget the lube)case and run full into the die and back out. What do you see? How close are you to the shoulder? Using this method you can set up to lightly bump the shoulder or almost bump the shoulder and all points in between. There is nothing you can't do to a case with a FL die. If you set one up correctly it is all the resizing die you need to make brass last just as long as the primer pocket will hold a primer.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: New Reloaded

Nice idea, I've always used a magnum sharpie, but it is as thick as paint.
Thanks

 

[1J04]

Re: New Reloaded

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bullet seating depth:
You can make up dummy rounds. Take a fired round and resize the neck 3/4 way down with a FL sizing die. *Yes you can use a FL die in this manner.* Greg L has mentioned it a time or two in these pages. Seat a bullet a bit long in the case and smoke the bullet with a candle. Now slide the cartridge in the action and try to close the bolt, won't close so extract and notice the lovely rifle land marks in the smoke. Wipe the smoke off and seat a bit deeper. Smoke the bullet again and rinse and repeat until the bullet shows no rifling marks, you are now pretty close to jam length of THAT particular bullet if you switch bullets I would reccomend new dummy rounds and repeat this process. With a dummy round like this you can use it to set up your seating die.
Better: Take a dremel tool or small hacksaw and split a case new is ok but a fired case that has been neck sized almost fully to the shoulder will be better. Split to just past the neck shoulder junction. Insert bullet and insert round into chamber, close bolt and extract round carefully. Now measure length to lands with bullet comparator and calipers. You may need to use small vice grips (needle nose is good for stuff like 223) and lock on neck to hold bullet tight in case, then measure with comparator. You may need to do this a couple times to make sure the bullet isn't sticking in the lands and pulling out a bit as you extract. If you stick the bullet just knock it out carefully with a coated cleaning rod, I usually drop an 80gr 224 down the muzzle and it knocks a larger bullet right out. If you stick an 80gr 223 in the lands of course you will have to use the cleaning rod.
FL ide setup using smoke:
Smoke the neck of the lubed case lightly on one side. Put your sizing die into the press and screw down to shellholder and back out a full turn. Now take the smoked LUBED (never forget the lube)case and run full into the die and back out. What do you see? How close are you to the shoulder? Using this method you can set up to lightly bump the shoulder or almost bump the shoulder and all points in between. There is nothing you can't do to a case with a FL die. If you set one up correctly it is all the resizing die you need to make brass last just as long as the primer pocket will hold a primer. </div></div>

This is great stuff. Having this wealth of knowledge to draw from is priceless. Much appreciated and look forward to continuing this pursuit of safe and accurate reloading. All that contribute through lessons learned help the rest of us immensely and is not taken lightly.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: New Reloaded

Don't forget to clean the soot out of your die. It won't hurt anything for a sizing session but as soon as you finish clean em up. I clean my dies far more than I clean brass.