Rifle Scopes New scope and not enough "up" to zero

theke

theke

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Jan 15, 2008
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Colorado
#1
I am new to shooting precision rifles.........I have mounted a
leupold mark 4 on top of an SPR style AR-15. When sighting it
in and moving the targets back to the 100 yd range the first 5
rounds were 14" high. I went to adjust the elevation and I only
had 2 clicks toward the right direction.

Any help in properly mounting and adjusting the scope would be
greatly appreciated by this, "have to start somewhere" new
shooter.

Thank you in advance.
 
#3
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

Are you telling me you only have 2 clicks in the elevation on your scope?


Did you bore sight the scope after you mounted it?? That will make it much easier for you, you can have a gunsmith do it for you or do it yourself. It will save you ammo +$$$$. You might want to start at 50yrds once you have a good group go to 100yrds from there.



It all depends on what your scope MOA clicks value are. Most Leupolds are 1/4" per click at 100yrds, so 4 clicks per 1" at 100yrds. So check you scope out and see what you click value. Once you know that I can help you from there. PM me if you want.

Good Luck!!
 
#6
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

chill guys ...a newb flashes here with GOD ONLY KNOWs what kind of gear and wants miracles .....prolly should be sent to ar15dotcom as the real brain trust resides there..........
 
#7
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: theke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">New scope and <span style="color: #CC0000">not enough "up" to zero</span></span>


I am new to shooting precision rifles.........I have mounted a
leupold mark 4 on top of an SPR style AR-15. When sighting it
in and moving the targets back to the 100 yd range the first 5
rounds were <span style="color: #FF0000">14" high</span>. I went to adjust the elevation and I only
had 2 clicks toward the right direction.

</div></div>

Notice the red.....

theke-if you are shooting 14" high, you don't need more "up".....twist the turret 14 moa in the "down" direction and shoot it again.
 
#8
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

OK first things first. I am not an internet commando, I do not pretend to be anything I am not, and I am most definitely not a professional marksman. I have a situation where I might not be around this time next year so I bought a nice set up to learn to shoot. It is something I have always wanted to learn. I do know this gun is not a beginners gun, but due to the circumstance....I said WTF and purchased it. I can not leave town or for that matter afford a shooting school right now or I would be there.

For those who want help......again, thank you very much!

I miss-typed "up" from the scope rings, I know for the most part how the dials work and the <span style="font-style: italic">basics</span> of sighting in a rifle. I started with a simple bore scope, and then shot it at 50 yds, it shot high so I adjusted the turrets in the "down" direction needing the bullet impact to move down. At 100 yds I need 14 clicks, 1 click=1 moa and I only have 2 clicks left in this direction. With this I can't adjust anymore, is there another way to mount the rings, another way to start with the scope. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The upper is an MSTN SPR upper on a KAC lower. The scope is a Leupold Mark 4, the rings are properly mounted along with the scope (as far as I can tell with the info I have gathered here) and are manufactured by Knights. Although the shots are 14" high they are very close together (for me) and dead center.

I am looking for a little advice, If this is the wrong place I will be happy to retract my question and go somewhere else.

Thank you,
CM
 
#9
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

Hi it sounds like sompthing is up like you have to much taper in your scope rail and rings, Do the rings have inbuilt taper int hem for long range shooting? the Mark4 should be fine with 20moa rings or rail but the inbuilt rail on the AR should not have any taper in it and most seperate rings have no taper in them either.

It sounds like sompthing is not lighned up or a bent barrel. I would get a gunsmith or someone whe knows how to build an AR to check it over for you because without having the rifle their is no way of working out the problem.
 
#10
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

Sir,
perhaps you might have a scope base with MOA built into it and possibly mounted backward, thus accounting for the increased elevation in the wrong direction. Just a thought. Good luck.
 
#11
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sir,
perhaps you might have a scope base with MOA built into it and possibly mounted backward, thus accounting for the increased elevation in the wrong direction. Just a thought. Good luck. </div></div>

Mounting a tapered base backwards would make the bullets impact lower, not higher.
 
#12
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

If you can post a picture of the mount with scope on the rifle that would help identify it. Desertshooter is right. I believe they make a mount with cant and one without, based on which rifle it was designed for9 MK11mod0 vs M110). If it's KAC mount it should have the part number engraved in on it, althought I could be wrong on that point.
 
#13
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

I just ran across this problem with a Ruger M-77. I know it's not quite the same rifle but here's the thing. The Ruger 77 has the bases built into the receiver well there built at 2 different heights, with the tallest being in the front. Per the owner the gun shoots 24 inches high at 100 yds. Therefore scope canted up in front makes coming down impossible as you run out of down MOA's. So if it is a tapered base with the high side to the front he would run out of down very quickly.
 
#14
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: theke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK first things first. I am not an internet commando, I do not pretend to be anything I am not, and I am most definitely not a professional marksman. I have a situation where I might not be around this time next year so I bought a nice set up to learn to shoot. It is something I have always wanted to learn. I do know this gun is not a beginners gun, but due to the circumstance....I said WTF and purchased it. I can not leave town or for that matter afford a shooting school right now or I would be there.

For those who want help......again, thank you very much!

I miss-typed "up" from the scope rings, I know for the most part how the dials work and the <span style="font-style: italic">basics</span> of sighting in a rifle. I started with a simple bore scope, and then shot it at 50 yds, it shot high so I adjusted the turrets in the "down" direction needing the bullet impact to move down. At 100 yds I need 14 clicks, 1 click=1 moa and I only have 2 clicks left in this direction. With this I can't adjust anymore, is there another way to mount the rings, another way to start with the scope. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The upper is an MSTN SPR upper on a KAC lower. The scope is a Leupold Mark 4, the rings are properly mounted along with the scope (as far as I can tell with the info I have gathered here) and are manufactured by Knights. Although the shots are 14" high they are very close together (for me) and dead center.

I am looking for a little advice, If this is the wrong place I will be happy to retract my question and go somewhere else.



pictures....post some damn pictures....'cause you are beating a dead horse here ....you got something all jack'd up wrong and due to your enthusiastic thoughts.....it ain't getting you where you think you want to be......POST SOME DANG PICTURES.....if you want some help
Thank you,
CM
</div></div>
 
#17
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the scope have a zero stop ? which turrets are on it. </div></div>

theke,

That might be the answer right there. I just had this very same situation and I forgot about the "zero stop" my scope had. LOL I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on...thought it could have been the base, or the rings, the scope, etc, but it was the zero stop feature.

Check to see if your scope has that feature first before you mess with anything else. If it does then we can help you figure this out real quick.

-Pat
 
#18
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

Double check your rings. Make sure that both rings (particularly the rear) are setting on top of the rail and that the recoil stops are all the way down in the rail grooves.

Some rings will still "bite" onto the rail if they are not all the way down. If one (particularly the rear) is sitting higher, you can induce a lot of extra cant.

What model scope is it, how much MOA does it have?

As LL pointed out, make sure that the zero stop (if equipped) is not set really high for some reason.

This basically boils down to a couple of things, either the mount is off, a zero stop is set wrong or the scope is broken.

Even if you don't think you have a zero stop, pull the turret and make sure there are not any washers in there. If a previous owner had this on a 0 cant rail, it could have been set up to stop above what you need.
 
#19
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

loosen the small external allen lock screw in the elevation knob, then turn it down 14 clicks. Don't forget to set the dial at "1" and re tighten the screw when you are done.
 
#20
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

"At 100 yds I need 14 clicks, 1 click=1 moa and I only have 2 clicks left in this direction."

By the sounds of it, you have an MK4 M3, with 1MOA adjustments. But until you post pics we wont know.

If it is an M3 then yes it does have a zero stop. Loosen the BDC's allen screws, slip the bdc around to about the 40MOA mark and tighten them back up.

(Make sure when your slipping the BDC it doesnt go click, its the turret you want to move not the internals).

This now gives you an adjustment range down before you hit the zero stop.

Just remember that once you have it zeroed to repeat the process and slip the turret back to the 0 mark.

Post some pics and itll be a whole lot easier once we see what kit your running.

cheers,

JJ
 
#22
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

Here are the pictures. I couldn't get my camera to focus up close; or from back a little with zoom to get a close shot.

DSC04906.jpg

DSC04907.jpg

DSC04909.jpg

DSC04910.jpg

DSC04911.jpg

DSC04912.jpg
 
#25
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rezmedic54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Therefore scope canted up in front makes coming down impossible as you run out of down MOA's. So if it is a tapered base with the high side to the front he would run out of down very quickly. </div></div>

Wrong. If a scope is tilted up, then the muzzle of the rifle will be pointing down. Which means the POI (point of impact) will be low. Which means the scope will need to be adjusted UP -- not down.

Too much forward tilt means you will not have enough 'DOWN' to get a 100y zero.

Too much rearward tilt means you will not have enough 'UP' to get a 100y zero.

OP, glad you've figured out your issue, and I hope your situation all-the-way around works out better than you've implied it might. Hang in there, and enjoy that rifle.
 
#26
Re: New scope and not enough "up" to zero

I know what you can do.just sight in 14 inches low at 100.then you may be able to shot 300 pretty close to zero.but anything after that you will have to get a bigger target ad see where the bullet groups at and measure it to see where you will have to hold at that range.its called Kentucky elevation.we use it all the time.no these guys will give you the info that you will need.I'm not an auto man don't know anything about them other than they fire one to many times.I call it spray and pray.just couldn't keep from makeing a little joke.didn't mean any harm.
John
 
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