in the next few months I'll be getting a new stick for shooting steel and paper at a max of 450 yds for now. will go farther if I find a different place to shoot, or if turtle extends his range. the question is whether to go .260 rem or 6.5 creedmoor??? Hornady is making it easier to reload the creedmoor, but is the results between both calibers that different. .260 brass is getting easier to get, and I will be reloading all that I shoot. I've read several articles about both calibers, but hearing from you guys will help in my decision. Thanks.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
thanks deerslayer for your input. I guess no one else either had an opinion or didn't want to bother. thanks again
thanks deerslayer for your input. I guess no one else either had an opinion or didn't want to bother. thanks again
Re: new stick, what caliber???
.260 - because brass is cheep by comparison. I'm on my fifth loading on some of the cases (Remington). Of course I am biased, because I own a DPMS 260.
.260 - because brass is cheep by comparison. I'm on my fifth loading on some of the cases (Remington). Of course I am biased, because I own a DPMS 260.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Since you're reloading, go with the slight performance edge in the .260.
Since you're reloading, go with the slight performance edge in the .260.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
.260 gets my vote. Have 2, I don't see any big benefit to go any other caliber when looking at a 6.5.
JamieD
.260 gets my vote. Have 2, I don't see any big benefit to go any other caliber when looking at a 6.5.
JamieD
Re: new stick, what caliber???
If you plan on staying 600yds and under I would go with a 6.5x47. With that being said I have shot the barrels out of 3 260s and I am on my 4th right now. I love it for long range shooting but I do think its best suited for the 123 to 130 class bullets.
I have a 6.5x55 that I shoot the 139s in and its a superb long range round out to 1000+yds. Its nearly as good as my 6.5x284 was but then its really hard to beat the 6.5x284 in anything.
If you plan on staying 600yds and under I would go with a 6.5x47. With that being said I have shot the barrels out of 3 260s and I am on my 4th right now. I love it for long range shooting but I do think its best suited for the 123 to 130 class bullets.
I have a 6.5x55 that I shoot the 139s in and its a superb long range round out to 1000+yds. Its nearly as good as my 6.5x284 was but then its really hard to beat the 6.5x284 in anything.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Well you all know how I'm going to weigh in here. I have been shooting factory and reloading for the 6.5 Creedmoor for the past 4 months in my GAP rifle and have been very happy. Used the factory 140s to win at the Reade Range sniper match in August if you were wondering about their performance. I started handloading and have no problem getting the 140s at 2870fps with no pressure signs and primer pockets still tight and shot sub 1/2 MOA at 300 yards. Going on my third reloading with the brass. That is with H4350 but if you tried some of the other powders like the Hybrid 100V you could probably get more velocity if you wanted so i don't see any performance edge for the .260 over the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Hornady is producing brass and you can get it at Creedmoor Sports and soon many other places. It is getting popular so if there is a lag in the supply it will be picked up. Remember the round has just hit the market over the past year so it will get better. Being a reloader you will like the Hornady dies also. They are full length dies but the neck only sizes the brass down .002" which is perfect neck tension. I have always used Redding neck dies but have been very impressed with the sizer and even the seating die in the Hornady dies. The seater is a match seater with a collet that holds the bullet in place while seating. Does very well and my runout has been in the .001" area.
The Also the 6.5 Creedmoor reamer only allows the neck to expand about .004" from the loaded round so it's not a super tight neck but it is tighter than other cartridges which helps with accuracy.
I can't verify this but I have been told to expect better barrel life with the 6.5 Creedmoor due to the longer neck and shoulder angle compared to the .260. I guess time will tell on that.
The .260 has a loyal following as it's been around longer and it does work but don't count the 6.5 Creedmoor out. Give it a try.
Well you all know how I'm going to weigh in here. I have been shooting factory and reloading for the 6.5 Creedmoor for the past 4 months in my GAP rifle and have been very happy. Used the factory 140s to win at the Reade Range sniper match in August if you were wondering about their performance. I started handloading and have no problem getting the 140s at 2870fps with no pressure signs and primer pockets still tight and shot sub 1/2 MOA at 300 yards. Going on my third reloading with the brass. That is with H4350 but if you tried some of the other powders like the Hybrid 100V you could probably get more velocity if you wanted so i don't see any performance edge for the .260 over the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Hornady is producing brass and you can get it at Creedmoor Sports and soon many other places. It is getting popular so if there is a lag in the supply it will be picked up. Remember the round has just hit the market over the past year so it will get better. Being a reloader you will like the Hornady dies also. They are full length dies but the neck only sizes the brass down .002" which is perfect neck tension. I have always used Redding neck dies but have been very impressed with the sizer and even the seating die in the Hornady dies. The seater is a match seater with a collet that holds the bullet in place while seating. Does very well and my runout has been in the .001" area.
The Also the 6.5 Creedmoor reamer only allows the neck to expand about .004" from the loaded round so it's not a super tight neck but it is tighter than other cartridges which helps with accuracy.
I can't verify this but I have been told to expect better barrel life with the 6.5 Creedmoor due to the longer neck and shoulder angle compared to the .260. I guess time will tell on that.
The .260 has a loyal following as it's been around longer and it does work but don't count the 6.5 Creedmoor out. Give it a try.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Thanks everyone for your input, and Rob01, your information is what I was looking for.
Thanks everyone for your input, and Rob01, your information is what I was looking for.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Please correct me if I am wrong but it seems that in order
to achieve the higher speeds with the lower capacity brass
of the Creedmore and 6x47 Lapua you rely on higher pressures and
longer barrels to do so.
Higher pressures would result in a quicker throat burn out negating any longer neck or shoulder angle of which btw the 260 could easily be modified.
Please correct me if I am wrong but it seems that in order
to achieve the higher speeds with the lower capacity brass
of the Creedmore and 6x47 Lapua you rely on higher pressures and
longer barrels to do so.
Higher pressures would result in a quicker throat burn out negating any longer neck or shoulder angle of which btw the 260 could easily be modified.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
The 6.5 Creedmoor brass has almost the same capacity as the .260. Factory 6.5 Creedmoor loads are only at about 58K psi and getting over 2800fps so there is room for more velocity as I believe max is around 62kpsi for the round. Yes the longer barrels help but if you are reloading you can bump the load a little and still get up there. .260 shooters aren't going any faster than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Go look in the .260 loads section of the reloading section.
And no need to modify anything with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
The 6.5 Creedmoor brass has almost the same capacity as the .260. Factory 6.5 Creedmoor loads are only at about 58K psi and getting over 2800fps so there is room for more velocity as I believe max is around 62kpsi for the round. Yes the longer barrels help but if you are reloading you can bump the load a little and still get up there. .260 shooters aren't going any faster than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Go look in the .260 loads section of the reloading section.
And no need to modify anything with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
What is the projected likely hood of other manufacturers producing 6.5 creedmoor brass in the future. I'm going to start putting together a custom rifle myself and want it in the creedmoor but am hesitant because of lack of brass variety/common availability. Also considering the 6XC, which has the same problem.
What is the projected likely hood of other manufacturers producing 6.5 creedmoor brass in the future. I'm going to start putting together a custom rifle myself and want it in the creedmoor but am hesitant because of lack of brass variety/common availability. Also considering the 6XC, which has the same problem.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
since Hornady designed the creedmoor and it is relativily new, I don't imagine anyone else will be making the cases anytime soon, unless the popularity takes off. But what I've been reading, the creedmoor seems to be shooting real well. If Team Blaster is shooting it, that's saying something for the creedmoor.
since Hornady designed the creedmoor and it is relativily new, I don't imagine anyone else will be making the cases anytime soon, unless the popularity takes off. But what I've been reading, the creedmoor seems to be shooting real well. If Team Blaster is shooting it, that's saying something for the creedmoor.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
The Hornady brass is very good for the 6.5 Creedmoor so why do you need more variety? People make way more about that than they should. It's not like it's Wolf steel cased is all that is available. Hornady makes excellent products. So they are the only people making the brass? Not a big deal. The brass will be sold by most every large outlet that sells Hornady products. Creedmoor Sports and Midway sell it now.
6.5 Creedmoor ammo in 140 and 120 AMAX is also readily available at about $24/20.
The Hornady brass is very good for the 6.5 Creedmoor so why do you need more variety? People make way more about that than they should. It's not like it's Wolf steel cased is all that is available. Hornady makes excellent products. So they are the only people making the brass? Not a big deal. The brass will be sold by most every large outlet that sells Hornady products. Creedmoor Sports and Midway sell it now.
6.5 Creedmoor ammo in 140 and 120 AMAX is also readily available at about $24/20.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Hornady proclaims lower than 60,000 psi for better barrel life with the Creedmore then jacks up speeds with the 140 to over 2,800 fps mv using 28" test barrels.
I'm not impressed at all.
If you are getting over 2,800 fps out of a 24" DPMS Panther there is no way you are shooting under 60,000 psi. Which negates one of the key points for shooting the Creedmore, better barrel life.
I'd bet your pushing 65k psi and more.
Hornady proclaims lower than 60,000 psi for better barrel life with the Creedmore then jacks up speeds with the 140 to over 2,800 fps mv using 28" test barrels.
I'm not impressed at all.
If you are getting over 2,800 fps out of a 24" DPMS Panther there is no way you are shooting under 60,000 psi. Which negates one of the key points for shooting the Creedmore, better barrel life.
I'd bet your pushing 65k psi and more.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Can you get over 2800fps with a .260 in a DPMS with a 24" barrel? Nothing wrong with a 28" barrel though. It's what we have on ours and they aren't a problem moving around at matches.
Anything the .260 can do the 6.5 Creedmoor can do.
Can you get over 2800fps with a .260 in a DPMS with a 24" barrel? Nothing wrong with a 28" barrel though. It's what we have on ours and they aren't a problem moving around at matches.
Anything the .260 can do the 6.5 Creedmoor can do.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
For a pure match rifle then 28" is a mute point.
I can get 2,800 fps + out my 260 using 50 grains of RL25. That's out of a 22" barrel and 243 Lapua brass necked up.
For a pure match rifle then 28" is a mute point.
I can get 2,800 fps + out my 260 using 50 grains of RL25. That's out of a 22" barrel and 243 Lapua brass necked up.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
I am quite happy with the 6XC. Very easy to load for. Bullet weights range from 55gr. - 115grs. Light bullets, light loads for kids or small framed folks. 115's for long range work. Several powders that work very well. RL17, H4350, H4831SC, & H100V to name a few. Brass supply has many options. Norma brass from Tubb, 22-250 brass, or 6.5x47 Lapua although the neck comes out a little short but hasn't hurt anything so far. The dies new seem to be a little pricey but not out of reach for what you get. My current bbl is at about 2700 rds. & it still will produce 1/2 MOA on the Sniper's Hide Challenge target.
Semper Fi
I am quite happy with the 6XC. Very easy to load for. Bullet weights range from 55gr. - 115grs. Light bullets, light loads for kids or small framed folks. 115's for long range work. Several powders that work very well. RL17, H4350, H4831SC, & H100V to name a few. Brass supply has many options. Norma brass from Tubb, 22-250 brass, or 6.5x47 Lapua although the neck comes out a little short but hasn't hurt anything so far. The dies new seem to be a little pricey but not out of reach for what you get. My current bbl is at about 2700 rds. & it still will produce 1/2 MOA on the Sniper's Hide Challenge target.
Semper Fi
Re: new stick, what caliber???
The 6.5 creed is basicly a .22-250 improved necked up. It does not have the capacity of the .260. Hornady get's their velocity claims not only from the 28" barrel, but also using their special powders (like are found in the "light magnum" loads)that you & I can't buy.
It is a better case design than the .260, it will be more efficient, probably has better inherent accuracy and will have longer barrel life. BUT, loaded to the same pressures, it will not perform as well as the .260. The only question is do you need that extra performance or is longer barrel life, efficiency, etc., more important?
The 6.5 creed is basicly a .22-250 improved necked up. It does not have the capacity of the .260. Hornady get's their velocity claims not only from the 28" barrel, but also using their special powders (like are found in the "light magnum" loads)that you & I can't buy.
It is a better case design than the .260, it will be more efficient, probably has better inherent accuracy and will have longer barrel life. BUT, loaded to the same pressures, it will not perform as well as the .260. The only question is do you need that extra performance or is longer barrel life, efficiency, etc., more important?
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Sermenator the 6.5 Creedmoor is based on the 30TC cartridge and not the 22-250. Also they are not using special powders. They use H4350 in the 6.5 Creedmoor rounds. The same stuff you can buy at any gun store. The RCM rounds use special powders.
Sermenator the 6.5 Creedmoor is based on the 30TC cartridge and not the 22-250. Also they are not using special powders. They use H4350 in the 6.5 Creedmoor rounds. The same stuff you can buy at any gun store. The RCM rounds use special powders.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Rob, Have you seen/shot/know someone that has the 6.5CM is a Ar10 system? Im working on building 2 rifles, both AR10s one in 308 and 6.5cm. I will have gap barrel me up a lower. Im just wondering how they handle it is a Semi Auto System. Have you tried the 139gr Scenars?
Rob, Have you seen/shot/know someone that has the 6.5CM is a Ar10 system? Im working on building 2 rifles, both AR10s one in 308 and 6.5cm. I will have gap barrel me up a lower. Im just wondering how they handle it is a Semi Auto System. Have you tried the 139gr Scenars?
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Tony has shot a DPMS and said it was pretty accurate with factory ammo. Never shot one myself.
Haven't tried any other bullets except the 120 and 140 AMAXs and they shot great.
Tony has shot a DPMS and said it was pretty accurate with factory ammo. Never shot one myself.
Haven't tried any other bullets except the 120 and 140 AMAXs and they shot great.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
DPMS is taking around 6-8 months to deliver, Ill just have George Barrel me up a Upper with DD 13.2" Rail system. What kind of barrel lengh are you recomending? 26"?
DPMS is taking around 6-8 months to deliver, Ill just have George Barrel me up a Upper with DD 13.2" Rail system. What kind of barrel lengh are you recomending? 26"?
Re: new stick, what caliber???
I'd go 26". It will help keep velocity up. You shouldn't have any problems getting well over 2800fps with the 140s or 139s. Having George do it is the way i would go over buying a DPMS.
I'd go 26". It will help keep velocity up. You shouldn't have any problems getting well over 2800fps with the 140s or 139s. Having George do it is the way i would go over buying a DPMS.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
I will have George Barrel me up one. hes done a couple rifles for me, nothing but top notch. Got to meet him in person too!
Thanks for the Advice Rob1!
I will have George Barrel me up one. hes done a couple rifles for me, nothing but top notch. Got to meet him in person too!
Thanks for the Advice Rob1!
Re: new stick, what caliber???
[ON SOAPBOX]
which of those above mentioned cartridges can you walk into almost ANY gun store and buy? Stop splitting hairs on ballistics when only one of the mentioned ammunition is commonly found throughout the US.
[OFF SOAPBOX]
[ON SOAPBOX]
which of those above mentioned cartridges can you walk into almost ANY gun store and buy? Stop splitting hairs on ballistics when only one of the mentioned ammunition is commonly found throughout the US.
[OFF SOAPBOX]
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Aside from kindling additional domestic interest in the 6.5mm bore size, I don't see a ton of advantage in the newer round. If I already had my reloading setup for the .260 (and I do), I would see the new chambering simply as a complication. If I did not, I'd be strongly tempted to make it my first, maybe only, 6.5mm chambering.
Having said all that, I agree with Rob01's excellent writeup. I appreciate the longer neck, and have genuine confidence that it combines with the slightly smaller case capacity to prolong throat life IF one resists the temptation to hotrod the loads. Not by a lot, but probably by a measurable difference.
In a competitive environment where the 6.5-284 has a significant LR advantage over the .260 (IMHO), I have to question why one would choose another, marginally more anemic, version of the same thing as the .260. In its own rite, the .260 is an excellent all around cartridge, but for LR comp, it just gives away too much to the 6.5-284 to rule the range. I suspect that much of Rob's success is due to his own superior individual marksmanship, that he could do as well with a workmanlike .260, and even better with a 6.5-284.
Greg
Aside from kindling additional domestic interest in the 6.5mm bore size, I don't see a ton of advantage in the newer round. If I already had my reloading setup for the .260 (and I do), I would see the new chambering simply as a complication. If I did not, I'd be strongly tempted to make it my first, maybe only, 6.5mm chambering.
Having said all that, I agree with Rob01's excellent writeup. I appreciate the longer neck, and have genuine confidence that it combines with the slightly smaller case capacity to prolong throat life IF one resists the temptation to hotrod the loads. Not by a lot, but probably by a measurable difference.
In a competitive environment where the 6.5-284 has a significant LR advantage over the .260 (IMHO), I have to question why one would choose another, marginally more anemic, version of the same thing as the .260. In its own rite, the .260 is an excellent all around cartridge, but for LR comp, it just gives away too much to the 6.5-284 to rule the range. I suspect that much of Rob's success is due to his own superior individual marksmanship, that he could do as well with a workmanlike .260, and even better with a 6.5-284.
Greg
Re: new stick, what caliber???
I have neither one but, I will tell you this for sure. I understand the design for the cred was to shorten the oal in order to get the big bullets seated correctly in the mag. I have fought the battle of trying to get vld type bullets to shoot in jumping situations and 9 out of ten times it is not good for a average reloader like me. SO with that being said I would be interested to know weither or not the 260 reamer that will be used would alow for correct seating of the bullets in the magazine that you are using either blind or detactable? My thoughts,
T
I have neither one but, I will tell you this for sure. I understand the design for the cred was to shorten the oal in order to get the big bullets seated correctly in the mag. I have fought the battle of trying to get vld type bullets to shoot in jumping situations and 9 out of ten times it is not good for a average reloader like me. SO with that being said I would be interested to know weither or not the 260 reamer that will be used would alow for correct seating of the bullets in the magazine that you are using either blind or detactable? My thoughts,
T
Re: new stick, what caliber???
Since the OP said that he would reload all he shoots, availability of loaded ammo shouldn't be an issue. Of the two he mentioned, I would probably go with the 6.5C , with a shorter OAL and better brass commercially available. With that said, I have a 6.5x47 and am rather partial to it.
Since the OP said that he would reload all he shoots, availability of loaded ammo shouldn't be an issue. Of the two he mentioned, I would probably go with the 6.5C , with a shorter OAL and better brass commercially available. With that said, I have a 6.5x47 and am rather partial to it.
Re: new stick, what caliber???
I just jumped in with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Can't wait to put it to work. I bought it to shoot 600-1000 yards, It was on the Hide, has a 28' barrel plus I'll be adding a can. Rob01, 140 Amax the best for LR with it, or would you suggest something else. I'll be buying factory, and reloading some as well. Great treat. this why I love this web sight.
I just jumped in with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Can't wait to put it to work. I bought it to shoot 600-1000 yards, It was on the Hide, has a 28' barrel plus I'll be adding a can. Rob01, 140 Amax the best for LR with it, or would you suggest something else. I'll be buying factory, and reloading some as well. Great treat. this why I love this web sight.
