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Gunsmithing New Stock Question

lht645

MMC(SS/DV) Ret.
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Aug 24, 2014
    282
    391
    The Glorious South
    I just switched from a B&C stock to a Manners, which I bedded with marine Tex. My rifle when from a one hole group at 100 yards to a one inch group. Retourqued everything no improvement. I suspect but want to solicit opinions, could I have affected harmonics? Should I try a little load development to try and get it back down?
     
    harmonics will have changed. if everything looks good try working up a new load for it.
     
    i just switched from MPA chassis on both my center fire and my vudoo to PRS1s with mini chassis...had to come up .5mil on the vudoo and a 10th left on my BRA both shoot the same with same ammo.

    are you sure the barrel is not touching the stock? run a dollar bill between the barrel and stock down to the action...it might be you not use to the new stock...took me about 25-30 rounds to find my hold.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Robert Gradous
    I cannot see a reason as to why harmonics would change from sticking an action in a different stock.
    Nothing has changed with the relevant components- the barrelled action and the load being fired.

    Harmonics are different than a change in the fitment of stock to receiver. Receivers will move in the stock under recoil forces, the objective is to make sure it return to exactly the same position, every time. Consistency = accuracy.

    I would expect a slight change in POI perhaps (same as often happens with brake vs no brake), but not in overall accuracy.
    As mentioned above, double-check adequate barrel clearance; and if you have the ability to check with an indicator whether the receiver is being stressed when the action screws are being torqued.
     
    Not a POI issue more a spread issue, good barrel clearance as well. I'm going to retorque everything and try a round of load development, if that doesn't work I still have the old stock so...
     
    Got some marine tex where it should not be by chance?
     
    I don't think so, I cleaned it up pretty well. The action seems to lay in nicely the barrel is clear. I'll check again.
     
    Did you switch back to the B&C stock to check zero? If your zero returns to better grouping, certainly check the new stock for whatever is wrong.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: A&8's
    I cannot see a reason as to why harmonics would change from sticking an action in a different stock.
    Nothing has changed with the relevant components- the barrelled action and the load being fired.

    Harmonics are different than a change in the fitment of stock to receiver. Receivers will move in the stock under recoil forces, the objective is to make sure it return to exactly the same position, every time. Consistency = accuracy.

    I would expect a slight change in POI perhaps (same as often happens with brake vs no brake), but not in overall accuracy.
    As mentioned above, double-check adequate barrel clearance; and if you have the ability to check with an indicator whether the receiver is being stressed when the action screws are being torqued.
    You don't want receivers moving
     
    Maybe a picture of the bedding job would help?
    Some smart guys here, not me.
     
    What trigger ? I just bedded a stock and when installing a new Trigger tech it hit in the front I'm sure that would have been a issue.
     
    So I went through the stock bedding and cleaned up any blemishes and forward of the lug I took it from 1" past the lug to 1/4". Reassembled and re-torqued and did some load development, wants .4 more grains now and it's back to a one hole group.
     
    I just switched from a B&C stock to a Manners, which I bedded with marine Tex. My rifle when from a one hole group at 100 yards to a one inch group. Retourqued everything no improvement. I suspect but want to solicit opinions, could I have affected harmonics? Should I try a little load development to try and get it back down?


    I've yet to see a properly bedded stock go backwards. You may want to review your stuff a little more.
     
    Not bedded "against" the front of the lug but 1" past it, I guess I got "You-tubed", I taped off the front of the lug with 10 mil tape, but I dammed off the barrel channel about 1" past that, seems better now that I cut it back to 1/4" but do you feel I should remove the bedding all the way back to the lug?
     
    USMC armorers typically bed the first inch or so of the barrel cylinder section in front of the lug.

    That alone is not a deficiency or problem issue.
     
    For what this is worth:

    I've been bedding rifles for over 20 years now and I like to think I've gotten pretty good at it. The debate over padding the barrel cylinder gets thrown back and forth quite often. I've done it as well and the only instance where I personally saw it make a viable difference was with Anschutz 54 actions used for International 3p shooting.

    Why? I have my guesses, but they are not proven.

    The Annie 54 is a small OD receiver, 1.150". Barrels typically used are 26" in length. Silly on a little piss ant 22 because all the powder is gone by 18". The reason they do is to get the sight radius "out there". The consequence is increased barrel time which makes the gun harder to shoot well. So, that trend evolved to backing off to 18" and adding all sorts of contraptions off the muzzle ring to get the sight radius increased again. Either way, you have mass hanging way, way off the moment and on a little receiver, that's not the best pathway.

    So, adding a pad of material to help support it helps in that instance.

    With center fire the game seems to change a bit. 1. Bullets are moving roughly 3x faster so they don't loiter around the way a 22 does. 2. receivers are typically larger in diameter so it helps to support the barrel mass a little more and it provides more surface area contact with the rifle stock.

    If anyone has ever wondered why I go through the pains of being particular on the inletting work I do, that's a big reason. I like to have as much of the rifle stock in contact with the receiver as possible. -Just look at a bench rest rifle. Single shots, big stuff, and all squashed down into as much of the register as possible.

    In 2003 the Brittish Fullbore team used 34" barrels on their Palma Rigs. None of them had barrel pads. Now, the actions were pretty robust (RPA Quadlocks), but it did not require additional support. They won the team event btw. I personally have a 300-338 lapua build on a 34" M24 contour stick that slings 125 grain bullets at 4375fps. Again, no barrel pad. That gun shoots 1/2 groups at 600 yards when the wind and sun play nice. My receiver is one I made from scratch and its 1.350" diameter. Nothing special about it other than being a CRF type setup.

    Based on my experience, I don't see the benefit from it. What I do see however is another complicated problem to solve once the barrel gets pulled and replaced by another one. We all know that barrel makers don't spend a great deal of effort ensuring that the outside diameter runs on the same center as the hole. (concentricity) We also know they don't obsess over diameter fluctuation. Because of it the pad has to be enlarged and bedded again. Most just have me remove it completely when it comes time to do this.

    Just something to think about.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Average guy
    For what this is worth:

    I've been bedding rifles for over 20 years now and I like to think I've gotten pretty good at it. The debate over padding the barrel cylinder gets thrown back and forth quite often. I've done it as well and the only instance where I personally saw it make a viable difference was with Anschutz 54 actions used for International 3p shooting.

    Why? I have my guesses, but they are not proven.

    The Annie 54 is a small OD receiver, 1.150". Barrels typically used are 26" in length. Silly on a little piss ant 22 because all the powder is gone by 18". The reason they do is to get the sight radius "out there". The consequence is increased barrel time which makes the gun harder to shoot well. So, that trend evolved to backing off to 18" and adding all sorts of contraptions off the muzzle ring to get the sight radius increased again. Either way, you have mass hanging way, way off the moment and on a little receiver, that's not the best pathway.

    So, adding a pad of material to help support it helps in that instance.

    With center fire the game seems to change a bit. 1. Bullets are moving roughly 3x faster so they don't loiter around the way a 22 does. 2. receivers are typically larger in diameter so it helps to support the barrel mass a little more and it provides more surface area contact with the rifle stock.

    If anyone has ever wondered why I go through the pains of being particular on the inletting work I do, that's a big reason. I like to have as much of the rifle stock in contact with the receiver as possible. -Just look at a bench rest rifle. Single shots, big stuff, and all squashed down into as much of the register as possible.

    In 2003 the Brittish Fullbore team used 34" barrels on their Palma Rigs. None of them had barrel pads. Now, the actions were pretty robust (RPA Quadlocks), but it did not require additional support. They won the team event btw. I personally have a 300-338 lapua build on a 34" M24 contour stick that slings 125 grain bullets at 4375fps. Again, no barrel pad. That gun shoots 1/2 groups at 600 yards when the wind and sun play nice. My receiver is one I made from scratch and its 1.350" diameter. Nothing special about it other than being a CRF type setup.

    Based on my experience, I don't see the benefit from it. What I do see however is another complicated problem to solve once the barrel gets pulled and replaced by another one. We all know that barrel makers don't spend a great deal of effort ensuring that the outside diameter runs on the same center as the hole. (concentricity) We also know they don't obsess over diameter fluctuation. Because of it the pad has to be enlarged and bedded again. Most just have me remove it completely when it comes time to do this.

    Just something to think about.

    If I could only get you a barrel so you could take that wood stock and Remington receiver from Massachusetts to show people in video your stock bedding skills...............