I am researching a new scope for my tactical 308. I did have a Bushnell 6500 tactical on it and really did not like so I sold it. I am searching for a scope in the 800-900 dollar range. I am looking at the new sightron 6x24 with the new moa reticle or the vortex viper pst with the moa reticle.Anybody have any experience with these scopes? I cant justify spending 1600 for a nightforce nxs. I am new and do apologize if this has been covered elsewhere on Snipers Hide. Thanks for any help.
Rifle Scopes New tactical scope.
- Thread starter TravisP
- Start date
Re: New tactical scope.
Try using this for your search SH Custom Search
Works a lot better then the sites search box.
Try using this for your search SH Custom Search
Works a lot better then the sites search box.
Re: New tactical scope.
Travis, you could really do a lot worse than just getting a Super Sniper 10x HD and learn to use it. In MO where we are, getting out past 800 yards isn't easy any way. It's been debugged and reliable and you can keep it no matter if you want an NXS or something like a USO, IOR or suck later on.
Travis, you could really do a lot worse than just getting a Super Sniper 10x HD and learn to use it. In MO where we are, getting out past 800 yards isn't easy any way. It's been debugged and reliable and you can keep it no matter if you want an NXS or something like a USO, IOR or suck later on.
Re: New tactical scope.
Your choices of MOA reticles are few.
As far as I know, the only MOA reticle in your price bracket is the Vortex,
Any particular reason you want an MOA reticle instead of a mil one?
Your choices of MOA reticles are few.
As far as I know, the only MOA reticle in your price bracket is the Vortex,
Any particular reason you want an MOA reticle instead of a mil one?
Re: New tactical scope.
Sightron has a new scope that is out or is coming out soon that has moa reticle in it, its 849.00 at SWFA. The reason being I want MOA, is I am new to this stuff, been a hunter all my life, but am wanting to get into the longer range target and hunting. I understand that ranging distance is much easier with MOA reticle than mils. Seems to me more straight forward than the mils, put the scope on Highest power, see how many moa the known size target is, multiply by 100 and that gives you the range. Is that correct? that is what I have been led to believe. I have read on here an other places that the sightron has great glass, great customer service, and is very repeatable, no drift.
Sightron has a new scope that is out or is coming out soon that has moa reticle in it, its 849.00 at SWFA. The reason being I want MOA, is I am new to this stuff, been a hunter all my life, but am wanting to get into the longer range target and hunting. I understand that ranging distance is much easier with MOA reticle than mils. Seems to me more straight forward than the mils, put the scope on Highest power, see how many moa the known size target is, multiply by 100 and that gives you the range. Is that correct? that is what I have been led to believe. I have read on here an other places that the sightron has great glass, great customer service, and is very repeatable, no drift.
Re: New tactical scope.
Not sure that an MOA reticle is "easier" to use, the formula is the same, the only difference is the multiplier.
target size X multiplier divided by subtension (mil or moa)
For rough ranging with mils
target size in yards x 1000 divided by # of mils
formulas
I do not know what "s- moa" is.
FWIW, you are supposing that you will have the time to crank your scope up to max power to mil the target, then work your formula and possibly turn the power back down.
Sightron makes a fine product, but for 850 clams you could get a Viper PST FFP with an illuminated reticle in MOA or MIL configuration and have a much more flexible scope.
You could also get the Bushnell FFP mil-dot scope on sale at Natchez. i recommend the 3-12 for hunting applications. VERY good scopes.
Not sure that an MOA reticle is "easier" to use, the formula is the same, the only difference is the multiplier.
target size X multiplier divided by subtension (mil or moa)
For rough ranging with mils
target size in yards x 1000 divided by # of mils
formulas
I do not know what "s- moa" is.
FWIW, you are supposing that you will have the time to crank your scope up to max power to mil the target, then work your formula and possibly turn the power back down.
Sightron makes a fine product, but for 850 clams you could get a Viper PST FFP with an illuminated reticle in MOA or MIL configuration and have a much more flexible scope.
You could also get the Bushnell FFP mil-dot scope on sale at Natchez. i recommend the 3-12 for hunting applications. VERY good scopes.
G
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Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not know what "s- moa" is.</div></div>
Smoa=shooter moa = rounding everything to 1" per 100 yards.
There are true IPHY reticles and knobs, but they are more money than your std hunting scope.
I use mine for every task, bench, UKD shoots, and hunting as well.
All my IPHY reticals have subtending marks at each 1 IPHY (10" at 1K yds) your mil reticle will subtend 36" at 1K. Both can be broken down with the eyeball by a good eyeball'er, closer than anyone can hold in the field.
It all depends on the end game your after.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not know what "s- moa" is.</div></div>
Smoa=shooter moa = rounding everything to 1" per 100 yards.
There are true IPHY reticles and knobs, but they are more money than your std hunting scope.
I use mine for every task, bench, UKD shoots, and hunting as well.
All my IPHY reticals have subtending marks at each 1 IPHY (10" at 1K yds) your mil reticle will subtend 36" at 1K. Both can be broken down with the eyeball by a good eyeball'er, closer than anyone can hold in the field.
It all depends on the end game your after.
Re: New tactical scope.
I have a sightron SIII that is 6-24 and have had zero problems with it. The glass is clear, it tracks well and has held up to some abuse. I dont think you will be disapointed with it.
I have a sightron SIII that is 6-24 and have had zero problems with it. The glass is clear, it tracks well and has held up to some abuse. I dont think you will be disapointed with it.
Re: New tactical scope.
I'd also say go with the Vortex PST if you want MOA/MOA. The ffp feature is great if your going to range with it or holdover. My shooting has improved a lot since switching to ffp. The PST's well within your price range and if you wanna save even more money, do yourself a favor and call Scott at Liberty Optics. He's got a Snipershide discount on the PST's that's unreal.
I'd also say go with the Vortex PST if you want MOA/MOA. The ffp feature is great if your going to range with it or holdover. My shooting has improved a lot since switching to ffp. The PST's well within your price range and if you wanna save even more money, do yourself a favor and call Scott at Liberty Optics. He's got a Snipershide discount on the PST's that's unreal.
Re: New tactical scope.
Thanks everyone for your input. Still have not decided, wished I lived close to a shop where I could look at both and decide then, I am leaning vortex because of the lighted reticle, I just think i would like to have that in a scope. Sounds like I would do well to purchase either one of them. I did send an e-mail to Scott at Liberty Optics and got his input as well. Thanks again.
Thanks everyone for your input. Still have not decided, wished I lived close to a shop where I could look at both and decide then, I am leaning vortex because of the lighted reticle, I just think i would like to have that in a scope. Sounds like I would do well to purchase either one of them. I did send an e-mail to Scott at Liberty Optics and got his input as well. Thanks again.
Re: New tactical scope.
I sent an e-mail to Scott at Liberty optics. I did not get an e-mail back but a phone call from Scott. He answered all my questions. This is great business. I will never purchase anything optics from anyone else. I now have a Viper Pst on the way. Thanks for for the input from everyone.
I sent an e-mail to Scott at Liberty optics. I did not get an e-mail back but a phone call from Scott. He answered all my questions. This is great business. I will never purchase anything optics from anyone else. I now have a Viper Pst on the way. Thanks for for the input from everyone.
Re: New tactical scope.
In moa/moa anything but Nightforce and USO will be a bit of a gamble. Vortex blew it on their PST line the first time out, they are trying again. No one knows if the new scopes will be reliable. Sightron lists an moa scope with all the tactical goodies for under $1000. Maybe one of those will be reliable, I don't know.
If I couldn't afford a Nightforce, I'd get a Nikon with an moa elevation and windage and mil dots. You can get a Buckmaster for about $300. I have two and they work well. I have shot out to 1100 yards with my 3x9 Buckmaster and hit my 10" steel plate. You could also look for a used Nightforce or USO. Again, used is a gamble too.
Hint. If you crank a Second Focal Plane scope down just a bit, those mil hash marks become 4 moa hash marks. It's really not THAT often most of us need the hash marks anyway. Mil ones will do the job. It IS ideal to have matching reticles and knobs though.
In moa/moa anything but Nightforce and USO will be a bit of a gamble. Vortex blew it on their PST line the first time out, they are trying again. No one knows if the new scopes will be reliable. Sightron lists an moa scope with all the tactical goodies for under $1000. Maybe one of those will be reliable, I don't know.
If I couldn't afford a Nightforce, I'd get a Nikon with an moa elevation and windage and mil dots. You can get a Buckmaster for about $300. I have two and they work well. I have shot out to 1100 yards with my 3x9 Buckmaster and hit my 10" steel plate. You could also look for a used Nightforce or USO. Again, used is a gamble too.
Hint. If you crank a Second Focal Plane scope down just a bit, those mil hash marks become 4 moa hash marks. It's really not THAT often most of us need the hash marks anyway. Mil ones will do the job. It IS ideal to have matching reticles and knobs though.
Re: New tactical scope.
I had the money for a nightforce and I did get in contact with them and they offer a military discount, so they did well on their part, I am one of those people who just seem to have hard time letting go of that much money on a scope. I just cant justify it. I dont shoot that much and after talking in length with Scott at Liberty optics I decided to pull the trigger on the Vortex. He stated good things about them and from what I gather on these forums, he knows his stuff. He stated for what I was going to do with one and how often I shoot, it would fill the bill nicely. I have seen those sightrons and might have got one of them, they look great, it will be months before the dealers get them though and they are a little more expensive. Scott gave me a heck of deal on the vortex. If it is a pile of junk, they have a good warranty and from what other people on here state, they have the best customer service. So we will see.
I had the money for a nightforce and I did get in contact with them and they offer a military discount, so they did well on their part, I am one of those people who just seem to have hard time letting go of that much money on a scope. I just cant justify it. I dont shoot that much and after talking in length with Scott at Liberty optics I decided to pull the trigger on the Vortex. He stated good things about them and from what I gather on these forums, he knows his stuff. He stated for what I was going to do with one and how often I shoot, it would fill the bill nicely. I have seen those sightrons and might have got one of them, they look great, it will be months before the dealers get them though and they are a little more expensive. Scott gave me a heck of deal on the vortex. If it is a pile of junk, they have a good warranty and from what other people on here state, they have the best customer service. So we will see.
Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TravisP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I now have a Viper Pst on the way. </div></div>
What model? Also I thought they were both out of stock & he was at shot show?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TravisP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I now have a Viper Pst on the way. </div></div>
What model? Also I thought they were both out of stock & he was at shot show?
Re: New tactical scope.
I got the 6x24x50 SFP moa reticle on the way. My brain is programed in inches and not metric so that is why I chose moa reticle. Most all of my shooting will not go beyond 600 yards so there will be plenty of adjustment in the scope. I will not be ranging with reticle that much as well. I have range finder for that. After talking with Scott @Liberty Optics, I was ready to get the sightron, he said those are at least 70 days or so from him getting them. He gave me a good deal on the vortex so that is what I did. He said the Vortex's are showing up now and I got an e-mail from him overnight and he said that there is only 5 people in front of me to get their Vortex. I think it will be just fine for me. I dont have a lot of time to shoot or the funds to do it a lot. I wanted a decent scope but not break the bank. The vortex has the features that I wanted plus the price. Some people say that i am the tightest person they know, so be it. I did not want to spend 1600 plus on a nightforce and it sit on the rifle in the safe for months on end. I might spring for one later, after I learn to shoot long distance and if I decide to shoot some competition. I am new to this stuff and did not want to break the bank by getting started.
I got the 6x24x50 SFP moa reticle on the way. My brain is programed in inches and not metric so that is why I chose moa reticle. Most all of my shooting will not go beyond 600 yards so there will be plenty of adjustment in the scope. I will not be ranging with reticle that much as well. I have range finder for that. After talking with Scott @Liberty Optics, I was ready to get the sightron, he said those are at least 70 days or so from him getting them. He gave me a good deal on the vortex so that is what I did. He said the Vortex's are showing up now and I got an e-mail from him overnight and he said that there is only 5 people in front of me to get their Vortex. I think it will be just fine for me. I dont have a lot of time to shoot or the funds to do it a lot. I wanted a decent scope but not break the bank. The vortex has the features that I wanted plus the price. Some people say that i am the tightest person they know, so be it. I did not want to spend 1600 plus on a nightforce and it sit on the rifle in the safe for months on end. I might spring for one later, after I learn to shoot long distance and if I decide to shoot some competition. I am new to this stuff and did not want to break the bank by getting started.
Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TravisP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My brain is programed in inches and not metric so that is why I chose moa reticle. </div></div>
Too bad so many here propagate the myth that Mils are metric and MOA is inches.
You can see here that people make decisions that they may regret later based on the confusion.
Just to (hopefully) clear things up a little.
You or your spotter note where your shot lands in relation to your target. YOU (or your spotter) MEASURE WITH THE RETICLE how far up, down, left, or right you were off. You adjust your turret (usually elevation) according to that measurement you took with your reticle.
Example: if you were 1.3 mils low you crank your elevation turret up 1.3 mils or 13 clicks.
With FFP this works the same way regardless of which power your scope is set to.
Your next shot should hit the mark.
It doesn't get much easier than that.
Enjoy your scope! Vortex has proven themselves a good company to go with IMO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TravisP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My brain is programed in inches and not metric so that is why I chose moa reticle. </div></div>
Too bad so many here propagate the myth that Mils are metric and MOA is inches.
You can see here that people make decisions that they may regret later based on the confusion.
Just to (hopefully) clear things up a little.
You or your spotter note where your shot lands in relation to your target. YOU (or your spotter) MEASURE WITH THE RETICLE how far up, down, left, or right you were off. You adjust your turret (usually elevation) according to that measurement you took with your reticle.
Example: if you were 1.3 mils low you crank your elevation turret up 1.3 mils or 13 clicks.
With FFP this works the same way regardless of which power your scope is set to.
Your next shot should hit the mark.
It doesn't get much easier than that.
Enjoy your scope! Vortex has proven themselves a good company to go with IMO.
Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TravisP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got the 6x24x50 SFP moa reticle on the way. My brain is programed in inches and not metric so that is why I chose moa reticle. </div></div>
<span style="font-size: 20pt">Lindy, where are you?!?! we got another one.....</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TravisP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got the 6x24x50 SFP moa reticle on the way. My brain is programed in inches and not metric so that is why I chose moa reticle. </div></div>
<span style="font-size: 20pt">Lindy, where are you?!?! we got another one.....</span>
Re: New tactical scope.
Too late - he already got an SFP MOA reticle.
I have to say, though, that if most of my shooting was going to be at 600 yards or less, I'd buy a fixed 10 power scope with a duplex reticle.
Too late - he already got an SFP MOA reticle.
I have to say, though, that if most of my shooting was going to be at 600 yards or less, I'd buy a fixed 10 power scope with a duplex reticle.
Re: New tactical scope.
OK, here I will say it again, I am new to this stuff. I was told that the mil stuff is metric, I said I dont want any part of that, only going by what I was told. I think everyone should use a 45 acp or a .40, to those who use a 9mm, go for it. There are arguments for and against anything, which most have warrant either way. I am on a budget as well. The FFP is considerably higher. Cant I do the same thing with an MOA reticle. Count how many MOA the shot was off and adjust for that? The ffp with being able to range at any power setting is a great tool, but I can go on 24,12,8, or 6 power and multiply, correct. I have zero experience with mils, moa. My last scope on the rifle had a mildot and then MOA knobs, unhandy figuring all that out. I might as well had a target dot, I never tried to range a thing. My experience has been with sighting in a deer rifle an inch or two high at 100. I do not shoot a lot nor will I, not enough time, I hunt. I have talked in length to several people who I feel have the knowledge and understanding of all this and they have told me that I could get by with the moa reticle. I shoot at paper from 100-600 yards and hopefully some deer hunting from a shooting house, (long Range). I might add, that new to this stuff is exactly that. I have shot my 308 on two different days. I have about 95 rounds down range through my rifle. I have owned it over 1 1/2 years.
I read these forums all the time to try to get an understanding of all this and to learn. I appreciate the comments, good or bad. I do believe I will like the vortex, if I dont, I can sell it and move on to something else, if the funds are there of course. Thanks.
OK, here I will say it again, I am new to this stuff. I was told that the mil stuff is metric, I said I dont want any part of that, only going by what I was told. I think everyone should use a 45 acp or a .40, to those who use a 9mm, go for it. There are arguments for and against anything, which most have warrant either way. I am on a budget as well. The FFP is considerably higher. Cant I do the same thing with an MOA reticle. Count how many MOA the shot was off and adjust for that? The ffp with being able to range at any power setting is a great tool, but I can go on 24,12,8, or 6 power and multiply, correct. I have zero experience with mils, moa. My last scope on the rifle had a mildot and then MOA knobs, unhandy figuring all that out. I might as well had a target dot, I never tried to range a thing. My experience has been with sighting in a deer rifle an inch or two high at 100. I do not shoot a lot nor will I, not enough time, I hunt. I have talked in length to several people who I feel have the knowledge and understanding of all this and they have told me that I could get by with the moa reticle. I shoot at paper from 100-600 yards and hopefully some deer hunting from a shooting house, (long Range). I might add, that new to this stuff is exactly that. I have shot my 308 on two different days. I have about 95 rounds down range through my rifle. I have owned it over 1 1/2 years.
I read these forums all the time to try to get an understanding of all this and to learn. I appreciate the comments, good or bad. I do believe I will like the vortex, if I dont, I can sell it and move on to something else, if the funds are there of course. Thanks.
Re: New tactical scope.
Horus Vision Predator. 8-26x50 SMOA Non-Illuminated Varmint Scope.
<span style="font-weight: bold">You'll either love it or hate it!</span>
The scope is built using shooters minute of angle (SMOA) adjustments. "One shooters minute of angle (SMOA) covers or subtends exactly one inch at exactly 100 yards."
http://www.horusvision.com/predator.php
Horus Vision Predator. 8-26x50 SMOA Non-Illuminated Varmint Scope.
<span style="font-weight: bold">You'll either love it or hate it!</span>
The scope is built using shooters minute of angle (SMOA) adjustments. "One shooters minute of angle (SMOA) covers or subtends exactly one inch at exactly 100 yards."
http://www.horusvision.com/predator.php
Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Horus Vision Predator. 8-26x50 SMOA Non-Illuminated Varmint Scope.
<span style="font-weight: bold">You'll either love it or hate it!</span>
The scope is built using shooters minute of angle (SMOA) adjustments. "One shooters minute of angle (SMOA) covers or subtends exactly one inch at exactly 100 yards."
http://www.horusvision.com/predator.php
</div></div> seems a little to busy for me
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Horus Vision Predator. 8-26x50 SMOA Non-Illuminated Varmint Scope.
<span style="font-weight: bold">You'll either love it or hate it!</span>
The scope is built using shooters minute of angle (SMOA) adjustments. "One shooters minute of angle (SMOA) covers or subtends exactly one inch at exactly 100 yards."
http://www.horusvision.com/predator.php
</div></div> seems a little to busy for me
Re: New tactical scope.
I just got through reading another thread talking about the Mil vs Moa thing and this is what I have concluded. A guy on it said, its not easier or more difficult to use either way, they are both measurements, the key he said is to have the reticle and knobs to match. You measure using your reticle, that is your ruler. I had the money initially to get a nightforce but I thought of all the other things I need to buy with the money I could save, made my mind up, I hate being on a budget. I still had to decide if I wanted the FFP or SFP. I chose the SFP. I understand I have to have the power setting on a specified magnification, thats fine. Scott at Liberty optics made me a great deal on the sfp moa model and saved me $$$ so I will live with it. Cant wait to get the vortex.
Thanks for all the replies.
I just got through reading another thread talking about the Mil vs Moa thing and this is what I have concluded. A guy on it said, its not easier or more difficult to use either way, they are both measurements, the key he said is to have the reticle and knobs to match. You measure using your reticle, that is your ruler. I had the money initially to get a nightforce but I thought of all the other things I need to buy with the money I could save, made my mind up, I hate being on a budget. I still had to decide if I wanted the FFP or SFP. I chose the SFP. I understand I have to have the power setting on a specified magnification, thats fine. Scott at Liberty optics made me a great deal on the sfp moa model and saved me $$$ so I will live with it. Cant wait to get the vortex.
Thanks for all the replies.
Re: New tactical scope.
I applaud you for being realistic with your budget. I think many people recommend the top end scopes that THEY would like to have with less sensitivity to your budgetary considerations simply because those budgetary restrictions are YOUR restrictions.
I think you are being pretty smart especially because as you said, you are just starting out in the long range game. Over time, your needs, desires, and gear will change. Some things will take on higher priority, some things less.
I find that my desire for new gear follows my gaining new skills or knowledge. I think scopes are similar to rifles, in that if you can't yet outshoot your gear, there is little need to buy better gear. Once you find that your gear is holding back your performance, then it is time to upgrade. Usually, by that time, you will know what you want in order to help your performance improve, whether it is rifle, scope, ammo, or other gear.
Nothing wrong with your choice given your parameters for making the decision.
I applaud you for being realistic with your budget. I think many people recommend the top end scopes that THEY would like to have with less sensitivity to your budgetary considerations simply because those budgetary restrictions are YOUR restrictions.
I think you are being pretty smart especially because as you said, you are just starting out in the long range game. Over time, your needs, desires, and gear will change. Some things will take on higher priority, some things less.
I find that my desire for new gear follows my gaining new skills or knowledge. I think scopes are similar to rifles, in that if you can't yet outshoot your gear, there is little need to buy better gear. Once you find that your gear is holding back your performance, then it is time to upgrade. Usually, by that time, you will know what you want in order to help your performance improve, whether it is rifle, scope, ammo, or other gear.
Nothing wrong with your choice given your parameters for making the decision.
Re: New tactical scope.
Travis, I was in the same boat as you about a year ago. I will have to tell you that I decided that trying to range game animals with the reticle is a wild ass guess at best. There is just no way to be sure the size of what ever you are shooting at. There were 6 whitetail bucks shot on our lease this year and they ranged in size from 16-21 inches in the height of the chest cavity. Use thoes numbers in your formula, and you will see that if you guess wrong you will be way off. Ranging targets of a known size is of coarse a whole different story...
Travis, I was in the same boat as you about a year ago. I will have to tell you that I decided that trying to range game animals with the reticle is a wild ass guess at best. There is just no way to be sure the size of what ever you are shooting at. There were 6 whitetail bucks shot on our lease this year and they ranged in size from 16-21 inches in the height of the chest cavity. Use thoes numbers in your formula, and you will see that if you guess wrong you will be way off. Ranging targets of a known size is of coarse a whole different story...
Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I applaud you for being realistic with your budget. I think many people recommend the top end scopes that THEY would like to have with less sensitivity to your budgetary considerations simply because those budgetary restrictions are YOUR restrictions.
I think you are being pretty smart especially because as you said, you are just starting out in the long range game. Over time, your needs, desires, and gear will change. Some things will take on higher priority, some things less.
I find that my desire for new gear follows my gaining new skills or knowledge. I think scopes are similar to rifles, in that if you can't yet outshoot your gear, there is little need to buy better gear. Once you find that your gear is holding back your performance, then it is time to upgrade. Usually, by that time, you will know what you want in order to help your performance improve, whether it is rifle, scope, ammo, or other gear.
Nothing wrong with your choice given your parameters for making the decision. </div></div>
I actually take the opposite approach.
My theory is that if you have top notch gear, you can always be sure that any problems are not your gear. You will never know what the problem is in your shooting if you gear is inferior. Are your groups bad because of trigger technique? Or because your trigger is a piece of shit? Are your shots off because you're ranging them improperly? Or because your scope is a piece of shit and doesn't track?
I'm not saying that buying the most expensive gear is the only way to shoot, but I do like knowing that whatever problems I'm seeing at the range have nothing to do with my gear. The only way to be sure of that is to buy once, cry once, and get the best gear you can.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I applaud you for being realistic with your budget. I think many people recommend the top end scopes that THEY would like to have with less sensitivity to your budgetary considerations simply because those budgetary restrictions are YOUR restrictions.
I think you are being pretty smart especially because as you said, you are just starting out in the long range game. Over time, your needs, desires, and gear will change. Some things will take on higher priority, some things less.
I find that my desire for new gear follows my gaining new skills or knowledge. I think scopes are similar to rifles, in that if you can't yet outshoot your gear, there is little need to buy better gear. Once you find that your gear is holding back your performance, then it is time to upgrade. Usually, by that time, you will know what you want in order to help your performance improve, whether it is rifle, scope, ammo, or other gear.
Nothing wrong with your choice given your parameters for making the decision. </div></div>
I actually take the opposite approach.
My theory is that if you have top notch gear, you can always be sure that any problems are not your gear. You will never know what the problem is in your shooting if you gear is inferior. Are your groups bad because of trigger technique? Or because your trigger is a piece of shit? Are your shots off because you're ranging them improperly? Or because your scope is a piece of shit and doesn't track?
I'm not saying that buying the most expensive gear is the only way to shoot, but I do like knowing that whatever problems I'm seeing at the range have nothing to do with my gear. The only way to be sure of that is to buy once, cry once, and get the best gear you can.
Re: New tactical scope.
I am a cheap skate by nature, but I have learned to embrace the "buy once, cry once" approach. I would hate to spend all that time and money to go hunting and then when I see that trophy, miss because I was shooting 5 different types of reloads out of my Rem 700 270 with simmons scope
As you can see, I have been there. It was ignorance on my part then. Now, it is nice knowing that my gear is solid and my shots will hit, if I do my part.
All that said, you are getting a very nice scope that 99% of us would be happy to put on a rifle.
I am a cheap skate by nature, but I have learned to embrace the "buy once, cry once" approach. I would hate to spend all that time and money to go hunting and then when I see that trophy, miss because I was shooting 5 different types of reloads out of my Rem 700 270 with simmons scope
All that said, you are getting a very nice scope that 99% of us would be happy to put on a rifle.
Re: New tactical scope.
I sit here and read all of this talk about this reticle or that reticle, FFP vs SFP, scope brand vs another scope brand, etc,. When the Vortex scope ships, it will cost me, what I consider to be, quite a bit of money. 5 or 10 years ago there is no way that I would have even considered spending $700.00 plus dollars on a scope, now I have done just that and am in total disbelief that I just about pulled the trigger on a scope costing $1600.00 plus. I know that you get what you pay for, but for what I will be doing, and how often I shoot, I totally believe that the scope I have chose will work just fine for its intended purpose. One person stated in a post that if it was him and just going to be shooting no further than 600 yards that he would have got a fixed power and duplex cross hair. I thought about that and just about did that.
I dont think my gun is junk nor the scope I chose, both might not be as good as others but if I can crack a coyote or deer at 600 yards, that is what I consider to be good enough. What I am looking for is minute of coyote angle and to have a good shooting rifle that I can go to the range with my friends and shoot with them accurately. Before taking my previous scope off and selling it, i shot a 1.8 inch 5 shot group at 300 yards with factory ammo, hornady 168 amax match. I will take that all day long. I dont feel the gun is even reached its potential yet. The gun is getting a new stock from manners on it and this new scope. I think when all is said and done, it will be an even better shooter. BTW, the scope, plus the stock from manners with a full bed job, both combined, is costing considerable less than the $1600.00 scope i about purchased. Thanks for the comments everyone.
I sit here and read all of this talk about this reticle or that reticle, FFP vs SFP, scope brand vs another scope brand, etc,. When the Vortex scope ships, it will cost me, what I consider to be, quite a bit of money. 5 or 10 years ago there is no way that I would have even considered spending $700.00 plus dollars on a scope, now I have done just that and am in total disbelief that I just about pulled the trigger on a scope costing $1600.00 plus. I know that you get what you pay for, but for what I will be doing, and how often I shoot, I totally believe that the scope I have chose will work just fine for its intended purpose. One person stated in a post that if it was him and just going to be shooting no further than 600 yards that he would have got a fixed power and duplex cross hair. I thought about that and just about did that.
I dont think my gun is junk nor the scope I chose, both might not be as good as others but if I can crack a coyote or deer at 600 yards, that is what I consider to be good enough. What I am looking for is minute of coyote angle and to have a good shooting rifle that I can go to the range with my friends and shoot with them accurately. Before taking my previous scope off and selling it, i shot a 1.8 inch 5 shot group at 300 yards with factory ammo, hornady 168 amax match. I will take that all day long. I dont feel the gun is even reached its potential yet. The gun is getting a new stock from manners on it and this new scope. I think when all is said and done, it will be an even better shooter. BTW, the scope, plus the stock from manners with a full bed job, both combined, is costing considerable less than the $1600.00 scope i about purchased. Thanks for the comments everyone.
Re: New tactical scope.
Travis,
I wouldn't sweat it.
I think you will be happy with your scope.
Travis,
I wouldn't sweat it.
I think you will be happy with your scope.
Re: New tactical scope.
You've done well. Enjoy the PST until the spirit moves you to something else.
You've done well. Enjoy the PST until the spirit moves you to something else.
Re: New tactical scope.
Thanks for all the replies. I am not sweating it. Very pleased with my choice, I cant wait for it to get here, if it gets here and is not what I wanted, reload and try again. This will probably be the best scope I have ever had so in comparison with others, you cant miss what you never had.
Thanks for all the replies. I am not sweating it. Very pleased with my choice, I cant wait for it to get here, if it gets here and is not what I wanted, reload and try again. This will probably be the best scope I have ever had so in comparison with others, you cant miss what you never had.
Re: New tactical scope.
I have a DTA SRS in .308 & .338 Lapua, I set the rifle up with a Zeiss Hendsholdt 6-24x56 scope, it is mil dot with .05 mils per click, it allows the rifle to be fully utilized. I have 2 different nightforce scopes, they are good, but they do not compare in clarity, if you can't s it you can't hit it. With the nightforce, i need to bring my spotting scope for longer shots, with the Zeiss, i leave it home.
I have a DTA SRS in .308 & .338 Lapua, I set the rifle up with a Zeiss Hendsholdt 6-24x56 scope, it is mil dot with .05 mils per click, it allows the rifle to be fully utilized. I have 2 different nightforce scopes, they are good, but they do not compare in clarity, if you can't s it you can't hit it. With the nightforce, i need to bring my spotting scope for longer shots, with the Zeiss, i leave it home.
Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I actually take the opposite approach.
My theory is that if you have top notch gear, you can always be sure that any problems are not your gear. You will never know what the problem is in your shooting if you gear is inferior. Are your groups bad because of trigger technique? Or because your trigger is a piece of shit? Are your shots off because you're ranging them improperly? Or because your scope is a piece of shit and doesn't track?
I'm not saying that buying the most expensive gear is the only way to shoot, but I do like knowing that whatever problems I'm seeing at the range have nothing to do with my gear. The only way to be sure of that is to buy once, cry once, and get the best gear you can. </div></div>
A agree that one should buy the best gear they can afford for the very reason you state; it reduces the possibility that problems can be traced back to the gear.
However, if someone simply doesn't have the money, and the options are either buying on a budget or not buying at all, I vote for buy the best you can afford.
I also agree with the "cry once" theory, mostly because the "cry once" model of purchase actually saves you money in the long run. But, like I said, if your choices are buy less expensive gear, or go without, I would either buy the less expensive gear, save for a while till I could buy what I really wanted, or live within my budget..whatever that was. Living within the budget is better than going without.
In theory, I would like to have only Schmidt & Bender, Hensoldt, Premier, US Optics, scopes. But reality being what it is, I would like to have more than one rifle, and more than one scope. So I also live on a budget, and buy the best I can afford rather than going without the high end scopes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I actually take the opposite approach.
My theory is that if you have top notch gear, you can always be sure that any problems are not your gear. You will never know what the problem is in your shooting if you gear is inferior. Are your groups bad because of trigger technique? Or because your trigger is a piece of shit? Are your shots off because you're ranging them improperly? Or because your scope is a piece of shit and doesn't track?
I'm not saying that buying the most expensive gear is the only way to shoot, but I do like knowing that whatever problems I'm seeing at the range have nothing to do with my gear. The only way to be sure of that is to buy once, cry once, and get the best gear you can. </div></div>
A agree that one should buy the best gear they can afford for the very reason you state; it reduces the possibility that problems can be traced back to the gear.
However, if someone simply doesn't have the money, and the options are either buying on a budget or not buying at all, I vote for buy the best you can afford.
I also agree with the "cry once" theory, mostly because the "cry once" model of purchase actually saves you money in the long run. But, like I said, if your choices are buy less expensive gear, or go without, I would either buy the less expensive gear, save for a while till I could buy what I really wanted, or live within my budget..whatever that was. Living within the budget is better than going without.
In theory, I would like to have only Schmidt & Bender, Hensoldt, Premier, US Optics, scopes. But reality being what it is, I would like to have more than one rifle, and more than one scope. So I also live on a budget, and buy the best I can afford rather than going without the high end scopes.
Re: New tactical scope.
Right now Counter Sniper has a HUGE sale on scopes that will put them right in your price range. Imagine, getting a gov overrun $3400 scope for $800!And they even come with 3 reticles!
Right now Counter Sniper has a HUGE sale on scopes that will put them right in your price range. Imagine, getting a gov overrun $3400 scope for $800!And they even come with 3 reticles!
Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I actually take the opposite approach.
My theory is that if you have top notch gear, you can always be sure that any problems are not your gear. You will never know what the problem is in your shooting if you gear is inferior. Are your groups bad because of trigger technique? Or because your trigger is a piece of shit? Are your shots off because you're ranging them improperly? Or because your scope is a piece of shit and doesn't track?
I'm not saying that buying the most expensive gear is the only way to shoot, but I do like knowing that whatever problems I'm seeing at the range have nothing to do with my gear. The only way to be sure of that is to buy once, cry once, and get the best gear you can. </div></div>
A agree that one should buy the best gear they can afford for the very reason you state; it reduces the possibility that problems can be traced back to the gear.
However, if someone simply doesn't have the money, and the options are either buying on a budget or not buying at all, I vote for buy the best you can afford.
I also agree with the "cry once" theory, mostly because the "cry once" model of purchase actually saves you money in the long run. But, like I said, if your choices are buy less expensive gear, or go without, I would either buy the less expensive gear, save for a while till I could buy what I really wanted, or live within my budget..whatever that was. Living within the budget is better than going without.
In theory, I would like to have only Schmidt & Bender, Hensoldt, Premier, US Optics, scopes. But reality being what it is, I would like to have more than one rifle, and more than one scope. So I also live on a budget, and buy the best I can afford rather than going without the high end scopes. </div></div>
Yes. Obviously you get what you can afford. Something is better than nothing. But that wasn't my argument.
For the record, I NEVER buy the highest end gear (S&B et al) because I've never been convinced that the super top end stuff is worth the price for what one might get over the VERY GOOD optics like Nightforce or IOR. I'm not convinced that a S&B is 2x as good as the NF or IOR (whereas I AM convinced that a NF or IOR is twice as good as scopes in the $900-$1200 range). Once you get up in to NF/IOR territory (we'll call it tier 1B), it seems to me that increases in quality are slightly <span style="font-style: italic">incremental</span> and NOT <span style="font-style: italic">exponential</span> like the upgrade differences between something like a Leupy and a Nightforce.
As I said before, I don't mean to imply that one MUST buy the best gear to go to the range and become a very good shooter, but that getting top end gear near completely eliminates said gear as a contributing factor when you're seeing range issues.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I actually take the opposite approach.
My theory is that if you have top notch gear, you can always be sure that any problems are not your gear. You will never know what the problem is in your shooting if you gear is inferior. Are your groups bad because of trigger technique? Or because your trigger is a piece of shit? Are your shots off because you're ranging them improperly? Or because your scope is a piece of shit and doesn't track?
I'm not saying that buying the most expensive gear is the only way to shoot, but I do like knowing that whatever problems I'm seeing at the range have nothing to do with my gear. The only way to be sure of that is to buy once, cry once, and get the best gear you can. </div></div>
A agree that one should buy the best gear they can afford for the very reason you state; it reduces the possibility that problems can be traced back to the gear.
However, if someone simply doesn't have the money, and the options are either buying on a budget or not buying at all, I vote for buy the best you can afford.
I also agree with the "cry once" theory, mostly because the "cry once" model of purchase actually saves you money in the long run. But, like I said, if your choices are buy less expensive gear, or go without, I would either buy the less expensive gear, save for a while till I could buy what I really wanted, or live within my budget..whatever that was. Living within the budget is better than going without.
In theory, I would like to have only Schmidt & Bender, Hensoldt, Premier, US Optics, scopes. But reality being what it is, I would like to have more than one rifle, and more than one scope. So I also live on a budget, and buy the best I can afford rather than going without the high end scopes. </div></div>
Yes. Obviously you get what you can afford. Something is better than nothing. But that wasn't my argument.
For the record, I NEVER buy the highest end gear (S&B et al) because I've never been convinced that the super top end stuff is worth the price for what one might get over the VERY GOOD optics like Nightforce or IOR. I'm not convinced that a S&B is 2x as good as the NF or IOR (whereas I AM convinced that a NF or IOR is twice as good as scopes in the $900-$1200 range). Once you get up in to NF/IOR territory (we'll call it tier 1B), it seems to me that increases in quality are slightly <span style="font-style: italic">incremental</span> and NOT <span style="font-style: italic">exponential</span> like the upgrade differences between something like a Leupy and a Nightforce.
As I said before, I don't mean to imply that one MUST buy the best gear to go to the range and become a very good shooter, but that getting top end gear near completely eliminates said gear as a contributing factor when you're seeing range issues.
Re: New tactical scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Unknown said:
Re: New tactical scope.
Well after many months on order, Scott at Liberty optics got my PST 6x25 sfp moa scope in and got it shipped to me. I got it mounted on my savage 10fcp-k .308 and took it to the range yesterday. I do not shoot much and am not an accomplished shooter but wanted a good scope to shoot target and possibly long range hunting. The farthest I have shot so far is 600 yards, simply just dont have anywhere to shoot farther. So far I am very pleased with the scope. I first got is zeroed and then shot at 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600. I only shot at a particular range only a couple of times after I got it sighted in so as to check repeatability. I did more adjusting yesterday on a scope than I have before and the shots always hit at what i was aiming at. The pst seems to me to be very sturdy and well made. I love the reticle, when getting on paper, I used the reticle to measure how far I needed to make adjustments for the next shot,and they were right on. My last two shots of the day were made at 600 yards. I had been shooting at 400. I made the adjustments, took the shots and they were within 3/4 of and inch to one another. I know everyone on here wants the five shot groups but for me, very pleased with that. I want to add that it was overcast, 79 degrees and dead calm. My plans for this gun might include grabbing it and firing at a coyote or something and i just need it to hit one time, and my setup does that. Time will tell of course on the scope, I have no worries and have faith in it that it will work every time and really that is what I am after. To those on a tight budget, I feel you cant go wrong with this scope. I can shoot very well with it, at least out to 600 yards and did not break the bank to get it. The glass is very clear to my eye. The adjustments are clear, crisp and audible. My eyesight is fading as I get older and I can see all the numbers on the knobs easily. I especially like the fiber optic on the elevation dial so you can tell where zero is. I like how there is almost a stop at the different power settings, (6), (8), (12) and (24). It was packaged in a nice box with many extras, (battery, shims, cleaning towel, allen wrench). I have not had to use the lighted reticle yet, so i cant say about it, but just looking through it late in the evening, I think it will come in handy at some point. This is by far, the best scope that I have ever owned. I feel I made a great purchase.
Well after many months on order, Scott at Liberty optics got my PST 6x25 sfp moa scope in and got it shipped to me. I got it mounted on my savage 10fcp-k .308 and took it to the range yesterday. I do not shoot much and am not an accomplished shooter but wanted a good scope to shoot target and possibly long range hunting. The farthest I have shot so far is 600 yards, simply just dont have anywhere to shoot farther. So far I am very pleased with the scope. I first got is zeroed and then shot at 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600. I only shot at a particular range only a couple of times after I got it sighted in so as to check repeatability. I did more adjusting yesterday on a scope than I have before and the shots always hit at what i was aiming at. The pst seems to me to be very sturdy and well made. I love the reticle, when getting on paper, I used the reticle to measure how far I needed to make adjustments for the next shot,and they were right on. My last two shots of the day were made at 600 yards. I had been shooting at 400. I made the adjustments, took the shots and they were within 3/4 of and inch to one another. I know everyone on here wants the five shot groups but for me, very pleased with that. I want to add that it was overcast, 79 degrees and dead calm. My plans for this gun might include grabbing it and firing at a coyote or something and i just need it to hit one time, and my setup does that. Time will tell of course on the scope, I have no worries and have faith in it that it will work every time and really that is what I am after. To those on a tight budget, I feel you cant go wrong with this scope. I can shoot very well with it, at least out to 600 yards and did not break the bank to get it. The glass is very clear to my eye. The adjustments are clear, crisp and audible. My eyesight is fading as I get older and I can see all the numbers on the knobs easily. I especially like the fiber optic on the elevation dial so you can tell where zero is. I like how there is almost a stop at the different power settings, (6), (8), (12) and (24). It was packaged in a nice box with many extras, (battery, shims, cleaning towel, allen wrench). I have not had to use the lighted reticle yet, so i cant say about it, but just looking through it late in the evening, I think it will come in handy at some point. This is by far, the best scope that I have ever owned. I feel I made a great purchase.
