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New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

DlAM0ND

Private
Minuteman
Mar 8, 2011
17
0
35
NC USA,
Well I've been shooting since I was a young kid, and Got the idea recently that I wanted to shoot Long range, Now i'm Just starting to move past 100 yards. My problem is I didnt have much money and Decided to sporterize a MN 91/30. To my Surprise This rifle is very different to shoot from Any other gun I've used LOL. The Trigger pull is Different, Groups arnt very tight maybe 2 ". I used an ATI Stock, NCstar scope, BIpod, I have my range finder and all that.. So Basically Im just wondering If anyone has tips for me About this Gun, Or where to start really... Would be GREATLY Appreciated

Dlam0ndz


Dlam0ndz
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

22.jpg

15.jpg


I fixed the picts for you.

You can try reloading for it might decrease your group sizes.
Problem with reloading for it as I am unsure on how many choices you have for bullets that are .310 diameter vs .308. A lot of guys still use the .308 bullets but the true diameter is .310. It is also a real old cartridge design, so reloading on that aspect is also different. Some guys use fillers with the powder. How far are you trying to shoot, or what exactly is long distance to you?

Also if you are lucky you can try and get some of the 7N1 ammo or if you are really lucky can get the 7N14.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

I gotta say buy a .22 also, they are crazy cheap to shoot, and you can practice the basics to perfection and in the mean time, save for a better rifle. I shot a .22 for almost two years before I had money for the build I wanted to do.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

Depends on the bore. Bright and shiny? Well defined lands?
If you've got that- a solid foundation- these rifles <span style="font-weight: bold">will</span>shoot...

But, you can't accurize starting from a shit barrel.
I started with a re-arsenaled 91/30 a few months ago. Boyd's stock, action and pillar bedded. Free- floated the barrel. Weaver side mount with Vortex glass. With cheap corrosive milsurp ammo, 2-3 moa. With my 174 gr. SMK handloads a couple of weeks ago, 1-2 MOA. My Timney trigger comes in the mail today! I'm hoping I can get this sucker to shoot close to MOA when all is done.

As mentioned, bore sizes can vary- you need to "slug" it and see what you have. Mine eats up the .311 SMK's.

No match rifle for sure, but the 7.62 x 54R has impressive long-range ballistics, and I built this for steel at longer ranges, which it will do.

If you want to have some fun and put in the time, these can be a good project. If you don't have or want to spend the time (or get the knowledge) to make it shoot, get a factory rifle.

If you like, do a search and you'll find mine, and others that have "sporterized" the MN. I don't know if the ATI composite stock lends itself to action and pillar bedding- but I can assure you- doing that is essential to the solid "foundation" I referred to at the beginning of the post.

Head over here for some good info:
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mosin-nagant/
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

Your rifle system is what it is.All that's needed for now is larger targets to shoot.Go down to your local scrap yard and get a 12" piece of steel.Set it out there 200,300 and have fun.

Keep your eyes peeled for a used Savage bolt rifle.That way you can fix it up as money allows.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

The next thing I would go is get a better quality optic than an NC Star before your out shooting and it goes south on you. I seen quite a few fail over the years.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

Unfortunately if the barrel is worn out, you are spinning your wheels without getting anywhere. Leave it unscoped and invest in a Savage if you are on the budget. Upgrade everything later.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

Haha, three rings on the scope? The ones I've seen are usually higher up the food chain, interesting mount.

I would say stop spending money on junk like the ATI stock, bipod, buttstock ammo carrier, sling, & range finder. The stock/bipod isn't helping you, and the rangefinder is pretty useless at this level. There's potentially a couple hundred dollars you could have used to get a much better rifle platform. You won't need any of that kinda fluff just starting out, trying to cross 100 yds. Don't worry about stock/action mating and a TACTIKOOLZ bipod/ammo carrier, just use what was on the rifle and a sandbag.

Scope was mentioned, not sure how that forward scout-style mount is working for you, but the cheap scope probably isn't going to last long over a 7.62 Ruskie. Soon it'll be so jarred up it won't hold zero, if it did before.

Get all the ammo you can reasonably afford now, its getting more expensive and will continue to do so, and enjoy shooting it, I wouldn't at all be disappointed with 2 MOA from a worn milsurp 91/30 with cheap ammo, that would be a good thing. But don't waste what little gun budget you have on frivolous purchases. Putting 1000 rounds downrange will improve your targets much more than cheap accessories.

I don't think you gained anything at all, bubba'ing the rifle like you did. Sporterization is usually for handiness and hunting use, accurization is pretty different.

If you really think the rifles holding your ability back, work on inexpensive and effective improvements. What's the crown/counterbore condition? Recrowning is an inexpensive but VERY effective way to help a worn-milsurps accuracy, if it needs it. Look at disassembling the action and going over the individual parts, polishing and smoothening.


 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

Most guys do the 3 rings for them because they mount it on a 3/8 inch dovetail where the rear iron sight used to be. Most 3/8 inch rings are not that great so as to make up for them they put 3 instead of 2. My friend just picked one of these up with the octagon barrel for $90 with ammo. He is wanting to squeeze more accuracy out of his also. Could some of you guys post picts of your modified ones? Also any reloading info would be great. I know that the sniper variant of these rifles have had more confirmed kills than any weapon system to date, although I think the majority of the hits where inside of 500 Meters.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

It's a hex (not octagonal) barrel you're referring to.
Round or hex makes no difference in the accuracy of the rifle, but may be an issue from a collector's viewpoint, depending on date and location of manufacture. "Sporters" are best built from rifles with little or no collectible value.

Like I said, be sure you've got a solid foundation (good barrel) to start with or it's all a waste of time and money...

Here's my post from last month on mine:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...668#Post2373668

There is plenty of good information available on the MN's.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

I'm kinda confused now, you're on a low-end budget, but you want to try and invest in a reloading setup for 7.62 Russian?

Surplus ammo (<span style="color: #3333FF">sub 20 cents</span>) is cheaper than the cost of either:
brass (<span style="color: #FF0000">quarter a pop for once fired, 50 cents for new</span>)
bullets (<span style="color: #FF0000">28 cents a pop for SMKs</span>, because I doubt you'll invest in reloading to turn around and use cheap bullets)
or powder (<span style="color: #FF0000">about 50 grains worth</span> of your favorite smokey)
<span style="text-decoration: underline">ALONE</span>.

That, plus the cost of the reloading gear (press/dies/scale/etc), if you don't already have it, makes it kind of odd. <span style="color: #FF0000">Triple cost, PLUS initial capital investment.</span>

If you want to get the accuracy that custom ammo offers, you may want a new platform to start with...
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your rifle system is what it is.All that's needed for now is larger targets to shoot.Go down to your local scrap yard and get a 12" piece of steel.Set it out there 200,300 and have fun.

Keep your eyes peeled for a used Savage bolt rifle.That way you can fix it up as money allows.

</div></div>

Best advise so far.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

Agreed. There are plenty of pawn shop Savages out there in common calibers, many of which have hardly been fired. Find one in .223 if possible. I also agree that you should get a .22 and practice as much as you can in the meantime. You should be able to get a decent .22 if you sell the Nagant.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

The best thing you can do, irreguadless of rifle, is to sign up for the online training offered here. Start out learning good habits instead of having to break bad ones later.

Learn, practice and be realistic in your expectations of your system and your ammo.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

22.jpg



Never seen a left hand mosin before.
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

^^^^
Reversed negative or something like that?
The bottom pic shows the same rifle as a RH rifle...
 
Re: New To LR Shooting... Using 7.62x54, help please!

Wow,
Dude, as was mentioned above, "get a .22" and use that as your learning platform. I would also recommend staying at the 100 yard line with this rifle and use smaller targets to make it more challenging, heck even shooting it at 200 yards will give you plenty of drop and wind to dope.
It appears that you are on a shoe string budget, and putting heavy hitting ammo through that rifle with poor optics is not gonna teach you much.
I suggest you sell that thing locally, or trade for a nice bolt action .22 and pick up a few thousand rounds of good ammo. After you shoot all of it, then revisit your whole "long range" shooting dream, by then you will have a much better idea of what you really want in a Long range rifle.
SScott
 
My Mosin Build

-Well I've been debating whether or not to post my build because I simply didn't know if it would influence you down the right or wrong path of the LR game. What you should do is look into buying a used remington or savage in say .223 and learn the basics. Start with something small in caliber and cheap to shoot. Some people will say .22lr but I don't see the point, because you won't buy a match rifle and quality ammo anyway. Then buy some QUALITY optics. You may not see the point yet young jedi, but if you invest the money now you will be set for life and can use it then when you buy/build a quality rifle.

-And if you truly insist on using your Mosin Nagant, here is my build and the way you should go.

IMAG0052.jpg


-First you need to lose the bubba-junk from your rifle and sell it to your friends for whatever you can get. You need good optics. At least a Millett TRS1 or bushnell 3200 for now. And obviously lose the scout-mount. Rock Solid Industries makes the best scope mount you can get for the Mosin. It costs almost as much as the Mosin itself but is pure quality.

IMAG0058.jpg

IMAG0069.jpg

- Give your bore a good cleaning. Consider having a gunsmith cut the barrel down and re-crown it. This is necessary in most cases because Mosins with good crowns are few and far between.

IMAG0065.jpg


- You are gonna have to work on that ATI stock because those bastards are usually warped. I had to remove a lot of material to free float it and the forearm on mine was warped badly. I went ahead and pillar bedded it with Rock Solid Industries aluminum pillars. Also bought there action screws which are super hard hex head units. Try removing the rear action screw when a scope is mounted. It's impossible with a flathead.

IMAG0059.jpg


-Now comes the bolt handle. I did mine myself. PM me if you wants further instruction. Don't want to waste space.

-Handloading. I reload so its standard for me but this is pretty important if you want any type of real accuracy. Bores range from .310 on the tight side and clear out to .316. I had the opportunity to look through about 50 rifles and hand-pick mine with a borrowed bore scope. You will need to slug your bore and find out where your at. This is very easy. Involves tapping a greased fishing weight through your bore and measuring it. Google is you friend here. Mine shoots well with .311 174gn sierra matchkings. Surplus ammo won't give you and consistency past 100yds.

IMAG0068.jpg


-Trigger. Timney makes a trigger unit for the Mosin, however I've never had one. Couldn't justify spending another $90 on this rifle.

-If your looking for groups you want to shoot from a cold bore and let it cool before your next shot. A lose bore really opens up groups when it gets hot. And please don't expect too much from a 100+ year old design. Military rifles are meant to have lose tolerances so they will run full of grease and muck and ice (except AR-15's). And don't get frustrated with it. If it won't shoot, it just won't shoot. My group pictured is 200 yards with handloads and the taped over holes are surplus.

IMAG0061.jpg


If you have any other questions pm me.
 
Re: My Mosin Build

The Timney's are nice...(as you would expect).

Just installed mine Friday.

What I didn't bargain for, is the fact that the sear extends back out of the top of the trigger housing and almost touches the rear action screw.

This required notching the forward face of the pillar to accommodate the sear. I had made my pillars from steel, and not aluminum, so that was fun...

Just a heads up on the Timney for this rifle...

IMAG0225.jpg


IMAG0226.jpg
 
Re: My Mosin Build

Wow, Thanks All for such great info! Didnt expect so many Replies. To all of you suggesting to buy a .22 I ALREADY have one, This is my first long range gun with a bigger caliber I meant to say. sorry about that. so i do practice with my .22 A LOT. And for some of you thinking im trying to make my shooiting quality better with "cheap accessories", Im not, I did that for looks. Ok so the timney trigger does sound like a nice add on. But i would like to know how reloading would help... And also my barrel seems to be in pretty good condition. Recently I put some loctite and threadlocker on ym scope rings and its holding much better. Ive been able to shoot much more accurate. And thanks for fixing my pictures to the guy who did that. The 3 rings keeps it sturdier. with 2 it just wasnt holding, that 3rd made a hell of a differense! Well once again thanks for all the suggestions guys, and Im always open to more. Just please keep it about this rifle, I know I could buy another one, and will nd have already. but I want to make this rifle a nice long term project.
 
Re: My Mosin Build

nice hookah Nick,you must smoke alot of prince albert out of it lol!
 
Re: My Mosin Build

If you are shooting surplus ammo reloading will help. The reason is more consistency. Better jackets on the bullets, better primers, better brass, more consistent powder charges...

You don't need a top of the line reloading setup to make better ammo than 60 yr old surplus. There is a reason Sierra sells their SMK bullets for more than the whole loaded round of surplus. That is why some people are willing to pay the added cost. The question is if it is worth it to you.

I started with mosins and SKS, but realized it was a false economy to try and tune it up. Still a fun project to say you did it, but not worth it to me at this point.