Hello I am a avid pistol shooter and I am looking to get into precision shooting and working my way from 100yrds out to eventually a 1000. I been thinking about 3 specific calibers .22lr .223 .308 but I've been leaning in the directing of 308. I'm good with my mossberg 702 .22 at 75 yards and have some decent groups but use only iron sights. I really want a BA so idk if I should start with another .22 ba and work out to 100 or should I just go and get the 308 the only thing I'm concerned with is trigger time 308 is expensive compared to 22 please give me some input the rifles I'm looking at for 308 are rem700 sps tac or a savage 10 le but for .22 I'm leaning towards savage cause they have a lot of .22 options with a heavy barrel thanks
- Thread starter Hathcock1223
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This thread has a good amount of information, http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/52833-caliber-choices-comparison-applications.html
imho, if you want to shoot out to 1000, from your list I would choose .308
imho, if you want to shoot out to 1000, from your list I would choose .308
Yea but as for trigger time I could always buy another rifle a year from now do you find it still better to get 308
please let me be upfront that I am still pretty new to this, but have shot both calibers (.22lr and .223) you list also. I am a "buy once, cry once" type personality, and .223 to 1k is pushing it. I would want to learn one rifle in and out, and truly use it to the best potential, I see the .308 as that caliber. If you are going to reload then you will be able to do it somewhat more cost effectively also.
Oh I see yes I would eventually reload but I just don't feel like blowing like 3000 in one shot ya know I wanna kinda get the gyst of it first get more into fundamentals I am just not sure if I should just dive right into 308 or should I practice more cost effectively with a 22
Read the thread referenced above, as well as the other stickies at the top of each sub forum, you will find that all your questions have been answered before,and its all right there. The 308 is definitely the better choice of those you listed. Read for a bit every day, and soon you'll be another snipers hide keyboard commando.
I like the .223 for the application you're favoring. If 'eventually' means you're not talking about a 1000yd location you've already checked out, it's not a viable goal for now. If and when you are sufficiently capable in the wind compensation department; 1000yd becomes a valid consideration and that's the time to go looking for a reliable .308.
Right now, .223 ammo is cheaper to buy and more available than .22LR. This may not be a short term condition.
Accuracy at distances is a relative thing, and many factors apply. The .223 is clearly adequate for diminishing the human factors, and going with a more expensive rig/ammo can wait until then. Actually, a 'shorter range' chambering will provide the necessary 'outer limits' experience at a shorter distance, which will be easier to find and probably closer to home.
Remember, a tiny group size is not anywhere near as important as the ability to make that group size, whatever it is, shrink over time. That's what training is supposed to accomplish.
Greg
Right now, .223 ammo is cheaper to buy and more available than .22LR. This may not be a short term condition.
Accuracy at distances is a relative thing, and many factors apply. The .223 is clearly adequate for diminishing the human factors, and going with a more expensive rig/ammo can wait until then. Actually, a 'shorter range' chambering will provide the necessary 'outer limits' experience at a shorter distance, which will be easier to find and probably closer to home.
Remember, a tiny group size is not anywhere near as important as the ability to make that group size, whatever it is, shrink over time. That's what training is supposed to accomplish.
Greg
I'd have to suggest one of the 6mms, 6 x 47 Lapua, 6XC, 6 Creedmoor,, 243Win, 6mmREM or 6SLR.
Yes eventually mean I am limited pretty much to a 100 yard range but there are a few around that reach out to 500 but I'm assuming it would only be wise to get good at 100 before thinking about getting out farther I was thinking 223 but for the price of some of the match round I could just buy a 308 that's kinda why I been either going with .22 or 308 cause I figured 223 isn't going to save me that much in the long run anyways but am deff still considering
I am really interested in a 22 bolt gun but I have a 22 semi already and I am hesitant because I could just put a scope on that and be good but I want the bolt action feel so I'm really up in the air
If your dead set 22lr, 223, or 308. I would get the 308. Much can be learned by dry firing and no ammo cost when dry firing. Save your brass from day one. You already have a 22lr. That can be used for fundamentals as well even though it is not a bolt action. For what it's worth my virtually stock Rem 700 adl in 30-06 shot half moa last weekend. Relatively cheap guns can shoot well huge money is not required. I will say the biggest improvement in accuracy so far for me is reloading.
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What scope are you using on your rem 700 I'm looking into a vortex
Viper
Viper
Listen to Greg, go 223.
At 100 there is ZERO advantage to a 308, at 500 there is some but the 223 is doing plenty on steel and paper at that distance. Besides, a 223 is cheaper to feed with match ammo (either factory or reloads) than a 308 by a sizable margin. MUCH less recoil which will be helpful for developing skills.
I'd recommend a 700 Tactical or Savage 10PC/11 Hog Hunter/10FP-SR in 223, with your budget including the price of a new stock (like a Bell & Carlson Medalist). If you can find a 1:8 Tikka, get that over the previous rifles.
After you start reloading, and you get bored or shoot out the barrel, rebarrel the thing into a 1:7 or 1:8 223 Ackley Improved or perhaps a 1:8 6x45 throated long for 105gr Hybrids.
Also I'm reading a million diff barrel lengths for 308 does anyone disagree with a 20 or should I go 26 those are the most common lengths for tac/varmint rifles
I started with 308 over a year ago with SMK 168 & 175gr. bullets. Buy in bulk on Internet for good pricing and no taxes. I now am using my 2000 once fired cases for my reloading. Much cheaper and more practice. I've become very proficient out to 1000 yds and enjoy shooting and reloading more every day.
I have a cheap Savage Axis 22LR and 223 with fixed SWFA 20X scope for old eyes and have lots of fun at 100 to 300 yds when I'm bored! Don't fool yourself. 22LR match ammo both hard to find and not cheap!
I have a cheap Savage Axis 22LR and 223 with fixed SWFA 20X scope for old eyes and have lots of fun at 100 to 300 yds when I'm bored! Don't fool yourself. 22LR match ammo both hard to find and not cheap!
If you are shooting 100 thru 500yd, barrel length is not really critical for .308. But the .223 will still be viable at out to 500yd (and some), and in that case, 24" is a good length, and 26" would be better.
Piece of advice..., Over the past 3 decades, I have found my opportunities and motivations for shooting extreme distances have amounted to probably less than 10% of my overall shooting time.
It's a hoot, no question. But for practical purposes, I am reinvesting most of my own shooting investment in .223, and I no longer own any rifles chambered for .308; haven't since about 2005. For LR, I shoot .260 (far more capable at 1000yd than .308). When I ended my 1000yd experience, I held over my .260 preference, but it took some time before I stepped down to chamberings that are more practical for precision shooting at the actual distances where I am now doing it. Once I decided on those chamberings, it become vastly apparent that I had been wasting a lot of resources up until then. In terms of practicality and efficiency, the .308 is impractical at short distances, and only marginally efficient at 1000yd.
For 30cal, I shoot .30BR (don't go there unless you are both unreasonably obsessed, and rich), and anything less obsessive, I do it all with .223.
I am also developing (on the back burner) loads for my .280, in the extremely unlikely scenario where I may need to go beyond 1000yd. For hunting, my .280 shoots so flat that ranging errors become far less significant. If a .280 won't drop it, my primary mistake was in considering the shot in the first place.
Barrel twist is important too, for the .308, 1:10" should handle essentially all useful bullet lengths; and for the .223, 1:9" should handle all practical bullet lengths.
Finally, using commercial ammunition is overly expensive, and seldom allows the rifle to perform at it full potential. Handloading should be a priority that comes well before shooting beyond 100yd, or with an LR-capable chambering.
Greg
Piece of advice..., Over the past 3 decades, I have found my opportunities and motivations for shooting extreme distances have amounted to probably less than 10% of my overall shooting time.
It's a hoot, no question. But for practical purposes, I am reinvesting most of my own shooting investment in .223, and I no longer own any rifles chambered for .308; haven't since about 2005. For LR, I shoot .260 (far more capable at 1000yd than .308). When I ended my 1000yd experience, I held over my .260 preference, but it took some time before I stepped down to chamberings that are more practical for precision shooting at the actual distances where I am now doing it. Once I decided on those chamberings, it become vastly apparent that I had been wasting a lot of resources up until then. In terms of practicality and efficiency, the .308 is impractical at short distances, and only marginally efficient at 1000yd.
For 30cal, I shoot .30BR (don't go there unless you are both unreasonably obsessed, and rich), and anything less obsessive, I do it all with .223.
I am also developing (on the back burner) loads for my .280, in the extremely unlikely scenario where I may need to go beyond 1000yd. For hunting, my .280 shoots so flat that ranging errors become far less significant. If a .280 won't drop it, my primary mistake was in considering the shot in the first place.
Barrel twist is important too, for the .308, 1:10" should handle essentially all useful bullet lengths; and for the .223, 1:9" should handle all practical bullet lengths.
Finally, using commercial ammunition is overly expensive, and seldom allows the rifle to perform at it full potential. Handloading should be a priority that comes well before shooting beyond 100yd, or with an LR-capable chambering.
Greg
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Wow it seems you know your stuff just curious you don't go with 308 because you can do it all pretty much with 223? Why is everyone on 308's balls then lol
Start on the .308, and by the time you get to 1000 yards, it will be time for a new barrel and you can move into a caliber more effective at those distances.
People recommend 308 because it is so popular and widely available...regardless if it is best for a person's given uses.
308 works fine for your stated purpose, but 223 will too and it'll be less expensive to shoot.
BSA 4-16x40. Got it cheap from a guy at work to just get some rounds down range. Would not recommend it but it holds zero has 1/8 moa adjustment target turrets. Not sure if this particular scope is made anymore.
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I started with 308; but once I got serious about distance and precision, I switched over to .260. It just worked better. Before then I shot the Savage 12BVSS and a SA M1A 'loaded' model, but my shooting was limited to a 300yd maximum.
I only got seriously interested with 223 once our 1000yd venue was essentially taken away, and our max local distance was limited to 200yd (later extended to 250yd).
Greg
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