new to reloading and running into issues out of the gate... could use some thought

[hunter1959]

using all Redding equipment... press and dies.... the die set is the Competition set for .223... here are my issues so far...

1. the neck sizing die has to be dialed all the way down in order to push a spent primer, and do reach that far, I have to take the brass bushing out of the unit to get the point to make contact enough to push the spent primer out of the flash hole.... is this to be expected?

2. with the seating die in I am finding that it will not seat the bullet so that it doesn't come out of the case... in other words, it isn't pressing and tightening the grip of the case around the bullet...

I am an admitted novice, trying to learn this art form.... I just am not getting the process... need help.... and probably will have to go to a competition loading class, if I could ever find one... thoughts, anyone? thanks in advance for any of you that are willing to help after you get a little chuckle out of my neophyte predicament...

 

[Supersubes]

I’m not totally following you, but i’ll give it a whirl.

Your decapping rod (not the whole die) needs to be adjusted further down. The seating die just presses, it does not tighten anything. The amount of neck tension you have on your bullet during seating will be determined in the previous sizing step. Sounds like maybe you need a smaller neck bushing in your neck sizer.

Edit: the comp die set is going to complicate things for you at this stage, for zero benefit. Same goes for neck sizing, zero benefit, and you'll struggle with brass fit in the chamber.

 

[hunter1959]

ok, all of that makes sense now.... the kit comes with three dies.... I do understand the suggestion concerning the two... what would the third die be used for? in the middle of the picture attached..

 

[Snuby642]

Re-read your die setup instructions one die at a time.
Try again.

 

[Supersubes]

ok, all of that makes sense now.... the kit comes with three dies.... I do understand the suggestion concerning the two... what would the third die be used for? in the middle of the picture attached..

The third die is a body die. It will size the case body and shoulder only. Did you buy that set because someone recommended it, or was it a gift? What neck bushing do you have in the neck sizer now?

 

[Rocketmandb]

The middle die is a full-length resizing die. Basically, it allows you to squeeze in the body and also bump back the shoulder. If you only neck size, eventually the case will become difficult to chamber and will require a full-length (FL) size - or cases could get stuck in your chamber if you wait too long.

I don't muck with it and FL size every load. This also bumps back the shoulder a couple thousandths.

As to depriming, I use a hand depriming tool and far prefer it. Here's why:

- I don't have to be standing at my press to deprime the couple hundred cases waiting to go. I can be on a work call, watching TV, whatever.

- I don't like putting dirty cases into my press, so that means I would have to clean before depriming, which means I have to clean the primer pockets in a second cleaning step. No thank you.

- Hand depriming takes less movement and time.

I use the Harvey Depriming Tool. As an aside, I bought 3 extra depriming pins for it in case I broke them. They were a waste of money as they are still sitting in the original bag. The thing is bulletproof - literally. Or maybe primer-proof is more appropriate.

Harvey Deprimer

Universal Hand Held Deprimer DEPRIMES LAPUA CASES! Buy Now No Accessories Needed No attachments, accessories, dies, or shell holders needed to catch spent primers. Deprimes Lapua Cases The 0.06″ Universal Pin, available for purchase, deprimes all major cases. Convenient Design Freedom from the...

harveydeprimer.com

 

[Snuby642]

I will add one thing then defer to redding guys.

You have a nice die set.
Keep it clean by getting a universal depriming die and deprime and tumble brass first.

Edit: what @Rocketmandb said but with a on press die for me.

 

[hunter1959]

the gunsmith I have used for custom guns suggested it as my aim was precision... so was my idea to go with a competition set... the bushing is a redding, in brass, number embossed on it is 245

The third die is a body die. It will size the case body and shoulder only. Did you buy that set because someone recommended it, or was it a gift? What neck bushing do you have in the neck sizer now?

 

[hunter1959]

I will add one thing then defer to redding guys.

You have a nice die set.
Keep it clean by getting a universal depriming die and deprime and tumble brass first.

Edit: what @Rocketmandb said.

The middle die is a full-length resizing die. Basically, it allows you to squeeze in the body and also bump back the shoulder. If you only neck size, eventually the case will become difficult to chamber and will require a full-length (FL) size - or cases could get stuck in your chamber if you wait too long.

I don't muck with it and FL size every load. This also bumps back the shoulder a couple thousandths.

As to depriming, I use a hand depriming tool and far prefer it. Here's why:

- I don't have to be standing at my press to deprime the couple hundred cases waiting to go. I can be on a work call, watching TV, whatever.

- I don't like putting dirty cases into my press, so that means I would have to clean before depriming, which means I have to clean the primer pockets in a second cleaning step. No thank you.

- Hand depriming takes less movement and time.

I use the Harvey Depriming Tool. As an aside, I bought 3 extra depriming pins for it in case I broke them. They were a waste of money as they are still sitting in the original bag. The thing is bulletproof - literally. Or maybe primer-proof is more appropriate.

Harvey Deprimer

Universal Hand Held Deprimer DEPRIMES LAPUA CASES! Buy Now No Accessories Needed No attachments, accessories, dies, or shell holders needed to catch spent primers. Deprimes Lapua Cases The 0.06″ Universal Pin, available for purchase, deprimes all major cases. Convenient Design Freedom from the...

harveydeprimer.com

 

[hunter1959]

dedicated depriming dies and tools sound like a great idea... thank you both

 

[Supersubes]

I would suggest you return or sell that die set. Buy a Forster or hornady match full length die set. That will put $200 back in your pocket which you’ll need for some other tools, like headspace comparator and a hand priming tool, etc.

 

[Snuby642]

I have to respectfully disagree with @Supersubes on this one.

He has a premium die set, wish mine were as nice. He will not ever have the need to upgrade that and once set and learning curve is met enjoy it for a long time.

Some days it's nice to have the good tools.

Imho

 

[hunter1959]

I would suggest you return or sell that die set. Buy a Forster or hornady match full length die set. That will put $200 back in your pocket which you’ll need for some other tools, like headspace comparator and a hand priming tool, etc.

 

[hunter1959]

I will look into that thought, but was my impression that Redding equipment was top shelf... but will consider if for sure, thank you... don't have a head space comparator, but do have a Sinclair hand priming press...

 

[Supersubes]

I will look into that thought, but was my impression that Redding equipment was top shelf... but will consider if for sure, thank you... don't have a head space comparator, but do have a Sinclair hand priming press...

I would strongly disagree that Redding is top shelf. Overpriced for sure. The idea that neck sizing is a must for accuracy is a myth that refuses to die. Just bad advice imo. It’s also a myth that full length sizing hurts accuracy and brass life.

If you do stick with that die set, you’ll need to measure headspace when it comes time to use that body die (every time in my opinion). Get the hornady comparator. If money is no object, buy a hornady match full length die(not custom grade) for $40. It takes the same neck bushings as the Redding dies. You can use that in combination with your Redding micrometer seater, which is a good seater.

There are some stickies at the top of the reloading forum that will walk you through every process here.

 

[hunter1959]

thank you for the comment, I appreciate your input... hopefully this learning curve is going to take place quickly.. really want to get to some fun rather than frustration.... though I think frustration and patience are going to have to go hand in hand with the entire idea of reloading...

I have to respectfully disagree with @Supersubes on this one.

He has a premium die set, wish mine were as nice. He will not ever have the need to upgrade that and once set and learning curve is met enjoy it for a long time.

Some days it's nice to have the good tools.

Imho

 

[hunter1959]

good suggestions all around.... I will look at that Hornady comparator... did you see the bushing number I responded with? 245... again, it was the one suggested by the smith for .223... if it is wrong, then I am in need of proper guidance

I would strongly disagree that Redding is top shelf. Overpriced for sure. The idea that neck sizing is a must for accuracy is a myth that refuses to die. It’s really just bad advice imo. Even if you do stick with that die set, you’ll need to measure headspace when it comes time to use that body die (every time in my opinion). Get the hornady comparator.

 

[Supersubes]

good suggestions all around.... I will look at that Hornady comparator... did you see the bushing number I responded with? 245... again, it was the one suggested by the smith for .223... if it is wrong, then I am in need of proper guidance

Hard to say. What brass are you using? Are you starting from virgin brass or loaded ammo? If youre starting from factory ammo, measure loaded round neck diameter and subtract .002-.003 for the proper bushing size. I just measured some Winchester factory ammo and it measures .246. A .245 bushing would not be small enough, because the neck springs back slightly, and the result would be less than .001 of neck tension.

Try flipping the bushing and running it number side down. Bushings usually have a little taper to them. It might get you enough sizing to take a loaded round neck diameter measurement. subtract .002-.003 for the proper bushing diameter.


You likely won’t be able to measure this properly if you don’t have a ball micrometer. Maybe you have one though. Measure neck wall thickness of your virgin brass, multiply by 2, then add the bullet diameter. This will be your loaded round neck diameter. Subtract for proper bushing size.

 

[hunter1959]

good idea that... much appreciated...

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Sometimes starting with a more complex die set is not ideal. Too much adjustment and you spend time chasing your tail rather than successfully reloading good cartridges. If I may make a suggestion, just go get a standard FL lee or Hornady die. That way you can at least figure out how to set stuff up and get a decent methodology down. You're not going to learn anything if you cant even successfully load ammo. I've been using a lee die set for a long time. Get like .5-.75 moa groups pretty easily from a factory howa 1500 barreled action. The only thing I upgraded was my seater die, and I'm not even convinced that it makes a bit of difference at all in my group size. I have a forester micrometer seater.

 

[hunter1959]

that is a reasonable compromise for the learning curve, without question.... I have looked on different sites and the number of optional choices on dies (what looks like standard, non adjustable) is vast... how can you determine what a standard die set is?

 

[Ryridesmotox]

that is a reasonable compromise for the learning curve, without question.... I have looked on different sites and the number of optional choices on dies (what looks like standard, non adjustable) is vast... how can you determine what a standard die set is?

I mean like a normal full length sizer with no neck bushings or anything like that. They are usually like 20 bux for the entry level Lee or Hornady stuff. Everything is automatic and there isnt much adjustment. You just run the ram up, turn the die til it touches, and start resizing. The expander will bring the case neck to a somewhat appropriate neck tension, though you will likely have more runout than other methods. But until you figure out how everything works, and developed a good method for everything, you're going to likely be having accuracy degradation come from other areas, like case prep, or powder drops, and seating depth. Once you dial everything else in, and notice that you are consistently shooting the best groups you can from the rifle and your cartridges. Then move back to the neck bushing dies. By then you will have acquired all the measurements tools and knowledge of what's happening in the process.

Dont throw away the redding dies, they are good. Just maybe get an easier sizer die, a lee is like 20 bux. And when you're more prepared, make the move.

223 Remington Dies

223 Remington Dies

leeprecision.com

 

[hunter1959]

Ryrid… thank you for this... and thank all of you for taking the time and interest to respond to me.... very very much appreciated, all of you... not sure how many of you are former military, or perhaps current military... but from an USNA grad who wants to do well with weaponry at distance, I have to thank you for your interest...

 

[unclefreedom]

If your bullet doesn't just stay in the case when you seat you have neck tension problems crimping isn't always necessary even though i crimp all my rounds. When you screw in your decapping/sizing die raise the ram all the way up and screw in your die until it touches the base then lower the ram and screw it in 3/8 to 1/2 a turn further. This should be more than suitable to resize and decap your brass if your primers still aren't being pushed out you can adjust the decapping rod down further. Hope this helped and have fun , be careful with your reloads. It's a fantastic journey and as far as your other question US Army Infantry 2002 - 2012

 

[McHaggis]

1. You need to adjust the decapper down so it contacts the primer sooner. Someone has already suggested this.

2. I’d put money on it your neck bushing is too big. Prior to seating a bullet, but after the case is resized and ready to load, try to put a bullet into the case without powder. If you can there’s the problem. I’d guess 223 brass thickness is less than your gunsmith thought. The advice to measure a loaded factory round is sound. If you don’t have the tools to measure it, take the bushing out of the die and try to fit it over the neck of a loaded round. If you can you’ve just confirmed the problem.

You don’t need other dies, you just need to adjust the ones you have. No point spending more money. But you NEED to measure shoulder bump so you’re resize the case correctly. Don’t guess on this.

To get an idea of bushing size let’s say your 0.010” thick. Double that (now 0.020”) then add the bullet od of 0.224”. This gives you 0.244”.
Now take 0.003” off this to give to a common neck tension of 0.002”. Therefore the bush you need is around 0.241”. This allows for 0.001” springback. Without actually measuring your cases your guessing but I’m sure you have a decent set of verniers. You need these to measure several critical dimensions anyway.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Notevenonpaper]

In addition to what everyone else said, don't try to troubleshoot your bullet seating die until you have your sizing die figured out. If your resizing die isn't set up properly, your brass wont be sized properly and weird things can happen down the road. Likes bullets that won't seat properly or won't stay put without a crimp (I have accidently done this in .308). Start from the beginning, start slow, and if you get frustrated don't be afraid to take a break and walk away.

 

[b2lee]

@hunter1959 If you are near the state of KY...you can swing by and I'll get as nerdy as you want to get on reloading. Some people learn better by visually seeing it...versus reading about it.

 

[Flatwater77]

Another vote for starting off with a more basic die set. I started off with Lee full length and neck sizing dies. Even then, it took some effort to get the neck sizing die tension right. Everything feels clunky and foreign at first and it is really frustrating to end up with unusable ammo.

Beyond dies, I found the best big investment to be a reliable scale. I ended up with a nice mechanical scale as I was always battling drift with electronic scales. The best inexpensive investment was a powder trickler.