New to the Hide and trying to solve throat issue with new Savage Tactical

[Rot59]

Hello all
I have searched about throat issues and have not found any responses for the problem I have encountered.
Just before last hunting season I bought a Savage 110 tactical in .308. I didn't get to work on break-in and load dev until winter. I shot about 30-40 factory Federal American Eagle 150 gr Full metal jacket at my range. The rifle has wicked muzzle jump and recoil. I picked up a Hornady Coal tool because I could not get a dummy round to seat into the lands as I have done in the past with my home loads. I was getting a consistent ring on the Hornady 168 gr BTHP midway between the Ogive and the outer dimension of the bullet and no rifling marks on the bare bullet. I sharpie'd the bullet and got the same. I used the Hornady tool and got the same result. I got mad and took a dummy round I made for a Browning .308 that I had made a load up for and when I chambered that round it seated the bullet to a CBTO of 2.113. I used the Hornady tool 14 or 15 times and the average CBTO ended up being 2.113. I never did get any rifling groves on the bullets,(yes I used several bullets out of the same box). From what I can see the Throat is about 0.306-0.3065 diameter. I think maybe a step in the machining process was missed. I'm stumped and think the factory rounds are jammed into the throat causing excessive pressure, then the round jumps to the lands. This combined maybe is causing this .308 to recoil more than my 30-06's and giving me a 2inch group at best at 100yds. I don't want to shoot it after using the tool as I may be over pressuring the chamber.
I hope I'm wrong and just having a blonde moment this last month. Let me know!!!

Rot

 

[Turkeytider]

Hello all
I have searched about throat issues and have not found any responses for the problem I have encountered.
Just before last hunting season I bought a Savage 110 tactical in .308. I didn't get to work on break-in and load dev until winter. I shot about 30-40 factory Federal American Eagle 150 gr Full metal jacket at my range. The rifle has wicked muzzle jump and recoil. I picked up a Hornady Coal tool because I could not get a dummy round to seat into the lands as I have done in the past with my home loads. I was getting a consistent ring on the Hornady 168 gr BTHP midway between the Ogive and the outer dimension of the bullet and no rifling marks on the bare bullet. I sharpie'd the bullet and got the same. I used the Hornady tool and got the same result. I got mad and took a dummy round I made for a Browning .308 that I had made a load up for and when I chambered that round it seated the bullet to a CBTO of 2.113. I used the Hornady tool 14 or 15 times and the average CBTO ended up being 2.113. I never did get any rifling groves on the bullets,(yes I used several bullets out of the same box). From what I can see the Throat is about 0.306-0.3065 diameter. I think maybe a step in the machining process was missed. I'm stumped and think the factory rounds are jammed into the throat causing excessive pressure, then the round jumps to the lands. This combined maybe is causing this .308 to recoil more than my 30-06's and giving me a 2inch group at best at 100yds. I don't want to shoot it after using the tool as I may be over pressuring the chamber.
I hope I'm wrong and just having a blonde moment this last month. Let me know!!!

Rot

What did Savage have to say about your issues? Also, Savage Shooters web site has some knowledgeable folks, particularly Dave Hoback.

 

[ram2940]

I have a savage 110 tactical in 6.5 creedmoor. I think mine is short chambered. When hand loading a 140 ELDM COAL is 2.830. I used virgin hornady brass and the barely expand maybe 001-002. But it shoots these rounds accurately. I dont have any suggestions, hopefully someone can help.

 

[Rot59]

What did Savage have to say about your issues? Also, Savage Shooters web site has some knowledgeable folks, particularly Dave Hoback.

I have to wait and call Savage tomorrow as today is Sunday. I will update my thread when I have more info. thanks

 

[R_A_W]

Welcome to the Hide, you’ve joined just as our beloved Savage expert has departed. RIP @fclassparadise

It almost sounds like they used a rougher and not the finisher, except .3065” is too large for a rougher & I don’t think you could chamber a round into a roughed chamber (too undersized). It’s possible Savage just chambered with finish reamer that is worn out.

Are you able to measure @ the lead? Should be something like .3085” IIRC

 

[DocRDS]

I think it's dubious that this causes excessive recoil. Every gun and shooter is different in felt recoil. Did you check brass for pressure signs?

As for the throat issue, I'm having trouble understanding the issue. Are you saying you can't jam the rounds in the lands? But if others get it, I'll go away and let the experts handle it

Savage doesn't get a lot of love, but just ignore the shade and I'm sure someone will have suggestions

 

[Rot59]

I think it's dubious that this causes excessive recoil. Every gun and shooter is different in felt recoil. Did you check brass for pressure signs?

As for the throat issue, I'm having trouble understanding the issue. Are you saying you can't jam the rounds in the lands? But if others get it, I'll go away and let the experts handle it

Savage doesn't get a lot of love, but just ignore the shade and I'm sure someone will have suggestions

Yes, I cannot get the bullet to go into the lands. It looks like it is jamming in the throat. My home load with the bullet extended far out got pushed into the dummy case with no lands(rifling) on the bullet just the throat ring on the bullet. The ogive had no marks on it!

 

[hafejd30]

Let savage know. They’ll likely have to send the rifle in

When you get it back sell it and buy a Tikka CTR

 

[Turkeytider]

I have to wait and call Savage tomorrow as today is Sunday. I will update my thread when I have more info. thanks

Oops! I guess I thought that it was an older problem. My bad.

 

[ram2940]

Have you bore scoped the chamber for signs of of a bad chamber.

 

[Rot59]

Hello all
I have searched about throat issues and have not found any responses for the problem I have encountered.
Just before last hunting season I bought a Savage 110 tactical in .308. I didn't get to work on break-in and load dev until winter. I shot about 30-40 factory Federal American Eagle 150 gr Full metal jacket at my range. The rifle has wicked muzzle jump and recoil. I picked up a Hornady Coal tool because I could not get a dummy round to seat into the lands as I have done in the past with my home loads. I was getting a consistent ring on the Hornady 168 gr BTHP midway between the Ogive and the outer dimension of the bullet and no rifling marks on the bare bullet. I sharpie'd the bullet and got the same. I used the Hornady tool and got the same result. I got mad and took a dummy round I made for a Browning .308 that I had made a load up for and when I chambered that round it seated the bullet to a CBTO of 2.113. I used the Hornady tool 14 or 15 times and the average CBTO ended up being 2.113. I never did get any rifling groves on the bullets,(yes I used several bullets out of the same box). From what I can see the Throat is about 0.306-0.3065 diameter. I think maybe a step in the machining process was missed. I'm stumped and think the factory rounds are jammed into the throat causing excessive pressure, then the round jumps to the lands. This combined maybe is causing this .308 to recoil more than my 30-06's and giving me a 2inch group at best at 100yds. I don't want to shoot it after using the tool as I may be over pressuring the chamber.
I hope I'm wrong and just having a blonde moment this last month. Let me know!!!

Rot

Update
I just got off the phone explaining everything as above with Savage and they told me to send the rifle in the original box to Savage Arms Canada with the explanation of the issue. Thanks for the comments and advice. It is reassuring the feedback I received from you all. I will let you know the outcome.
Be safe
Rot

 

[Rot59]

Hello all, I got the rifle back from Savage 2 days ago and spent most those days still chasing lands. I am obviously missing something so will probably drive to the city to take the rifle to K.S. Arms Ltd. and see what they say after I at least shoot the thing to see if the work Savage supposedly did made a difference. This is a list of the work done on the rifle from their work order.
1. Head space checked
2. Chamber honed and polished. You can see that this work was done.
3. Free bore length checked..
4. Heavy carbon build-up removed from bore.
5. Seating depth checked- Hornady 168 gr ELD Match
6. 20 rounds- no malfunctions
I used my Hornady OAL Gauge 20 times with Hornady 168 gr BTHP Match #30501 bullets and got depths measuring from first measurement of 2.1160 to lowest of 2.1110 for an average of 2.1125. I made 10 measurements the day I got the rifle back and 10 measurements the next day(yesterday).
I could see scuff or scrape marks on the sharpie ink on the bullet just before the thickest diameter of the bullet at about 0.3075 on my gauge. There were no Land (Rifling) marks on the bullet. I made a dummy round with another 168 gr match bullet protruding way out of the cartridge with sharpie ink on it and had to force it in the chamber to lock the bolt down. I then had to use a block of wood to hammer the bolt back to eject the cartridge. The bullet was seated way down into the case with only throat marks on the sharpie. Still no rifling.
I do not have a bore scope as I have only been messing with my own rifles for the last 2-3 yrs. I shoot mostly targets in the bush and have never had any of my rifles to a real gun range. I have my spot on my land or shoot into the river bank for longer ranges. I also live 100 miles to the nearest professional gunsmith. (Lots of back woods gunsmiths up here with no formal education). No disrespect intended I just don't want to have a rifle blow up in my face out in the bush.
The wealth of info I see on this site garners you gentlemen all my respect! I thank you all very much and will let you know what the gunsmith says.

Rot

 

[spife7980]

Get a caliper and some pin gauges, find the barrels bore diameter for yourself. Its the only way to get an answer you can trust with no one around that you can trust.

 

[Rot59]

Final Update
I contacted K.S. Arms and was advised to make a load and seat the bullet boattail junction to meet the neck shoulder junction and develop a load from there.
I used Fed case and Primer with Hornady 168 gr BTHP Match and 45 gr of Hodgen Varget. Rifle shot with a lot less recoil than before and got a 3 shot group of 1 moa at 118 yds. Works for me!
I would again thank all of you for your advice and comments.

Be safe
Rot