New wannabe shooters

[Trapshooter12]

I have a guy at work that wants to get into long range shooting and he is asking lots of questions. He has an AR with an Acog.
I have told him not to be cheap and he claims he doesn't do anything cheap he gets the best that you can get.

He has been looking for a Rifle and I found him a 700P at Christmas time that the gun store will deal on. I told him that they would probably take $700 for it and he said he couldn't afford that right now. OK I understand that. He asked what Powder I would use for his AR with the type of Bullet he is shooting and he then buys everything else but what I have told him to get.

Remember now he doesn't buy cheap stuff.

So now he is interested in a new scope. Since I am familiar with Night Force I show him mine and tell him the price he says I can't afford this right now. He then buys a 3X15 SWFA scope. Fine now we have a start. I try to save him some money and tell him what rings I would buy thinking when he does buy another rifle he can switch the rings over without any extra cost and to call the store and tell them what he is doing so they can recommend how to go about it. He then looks the rings up and tells me oh I can't afford that right now.
I told him when he buys the rings to make sure the objective clears the barrel. He tells me yesterday that he ordered some type of mount that is the same on his Acog.
He then tells me since he has the Acog off his AR that he will have to buy another AR to put it on and I am like WTF here, if your going to buy another rifle to mount your Acog on then just spend the money on the Tactical rifle you want, the cost will not be that much different.
The guy has the money to get everything he needs and I understand there are priorities in life, but it's going to cost twice as much going a round about way and then he is going to be pissed off in the end.

My Son is not that much different. He has done basically the same thing and then pissed off when his rifle doesn't do what he wants it to.

Some times you want to pound your head against a brick wall.

 

[George Az]

I quit talking to people. They usually don't listen, such as your case. Then people think you are a snob. I can accept that. Eventually, one of em will go buy a .338 Savage and come over to show it to you, the "BEST". They still won't shoot with you anyway. So I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[steve123]

Yep, the way people think cracks me up! Sometimes they go and do the exact opposite of what was the smartest solution to their problem and end up doubly screwed but the money is spent.

 

[milo 2.0]

Some times you want to pound your head against a brick wall.

Sometimes it's the only sensible option!

Sometimes the only gratification comes 2 years later, after they've exhausted all options, and a shit load of funds, then take your advice.
You just have to tell someone what you like, getting involved in how a person spends their money is futile at best.

 

[rockn30809]

I quit worrying about what people do a long time ago. I'll give someone the best advice I can and what they do after that is their business.........unless it has a direct affect on my life.

 

[mrbungle]

i am pretty new myself , so i listened to folks to a point. but when you have never dropped that kind of cash for parts, the first time it is a little daunting.

that being said, i put together a remmy 700 , new stock, trigger, mag well , super nice scope only to find out i should have went with a left handed remmy to begin with. so i am selling that rifle to build a remmy 700 lefty.

no one told me to buy a lefty.......but after shooting my first precision rifle comp. i knew i needed one.



when people ask me about getting into long range shooting, first thing i say it is not cheap. then i look them in the eye and say it again. if they are still interested i suggest a rifle type and scope brands to look into. then tell them once they have that take a long distance precision rifle course. i also tell them about this site. most of the time they just go back to plinking with their AR's....

 

[Sharpsman]

Newbies want a quick/low cost solution which 'ain't' possible so I let them crap on themselves because trying to help them is a thankless endeavor!!

 

[308Gunner]

I have a couple of friends that thought Walmart leupys were good scopes, after looking through my NXS they changed there mind and now have good scopes as well as rifles and are able to shoot long range and enjoy it. 1 just recieved his GAP in december and is like a pig in shit.

 

[Maggot]

I have a guy at work that wants to get into long range shooting and he is asking lots of questions. He has an AR with an Acog.
I have told him not to be cheap and he claims he doesn't do anything cheap he gets the best that you can get.

He has been looking for a Rifle and I found him a 700P at Christmas time that the gun store will deal on. I told him that they would probably take $700 for it and he said he couldn't afford that right now. OK I understand that. He asked what Powder I would use for his AR with the type of Bullet he is shooting and he then buys everything else but what I have told him to get.

Remember now he doesn't buy cheap stuff.

So now he is interested in a new scope. Since I am familiar with Night Force I show him mine and tell him the price he says I can't afford this right now. He then buys a 3X15 SWFA scope. Fine now we have a start. I try to save him some money and tell him what rings I would buy thinking when he does buy another rifle he can switch the rings over without any extra cost and to call the store and tell them what he is doing so they can recommend how to go about it. He then looks the rings up and tells me oh I can't afford that right now.
I told him when he buys the rings to make sure the objective clears the barrel. He tells me yesterday that he ordered some type of mount that is the same on his Acog.
He then tells me since he has the Acog off his AR that he will have to buy another AR to put it on and I am like WTF here, if your going to buy another rifle to mount your Acog on then just spend the money on the Tactical rifle you want, the cost will not be that much different.
The guy has the money to get everything he needs and I understand there are priorities in life, but it's going to cost twice as much going a round about way and then he is going to be pissed off in the end.

My Son is not that much different. He has done basically the same thing and then pissed off when his rifle doesn't do what he wants it to.

Some times you want to pound your head against a brick wall.

Never argue with an idiot. He will wear you down then beat you with experience.

i am pretty new myself , so i listened to folks to a point. but when you have never dropped that kind of cash for parts, the first time it is a little daunting.

that being said, i put together a remmy 700 , new stock, trigger, mag well , super nice scope only to find out i should have went with a left handed remmy to begin with. so i am selling that rifle to build a remmy 700 lefty.

no one told me to buy a lefty.......but after shooting my first precision rifle comp. i knew i needed one.



when people ask me about getting into long range shooting, first thing i say it is not cheap. then i look them in the eye and say it again. if they are still interested i suggest a rifle type and scope brands to look into. then tell them once they have that take a long distance precision rifle course. i also tell them about this site. most of the time they just go back to plinking with their AR's....

You think LR shooting is expensive...Try boats...or airplanes...or high end audio.

 

[mrbungle]

i can tell you , i will never own a airplane. don;t like flying. a boat on the other hand......may be someday.....

 

[Toast]

Tell him you can't afford a zombie target and shoot him .

 

[Veer_G]

Tell them that they have to be willing to invest at least $3,000 in equipment and then be willing to either take a loss in getting rid of it or be willing to invest even more on a regular basis to maintain proficiency. The idea of a $3,000 investment that then makes $1 bills disappear into little distant holes sobers most plinkers right up.

 

[Twisted .308]

You gotta be in the " Click " to be a great Shooter ... I followed their advise and tried to learn their secrets .but they won't let me have what I need the most ....$7000 Rifle check ! $2000 Scope Check ! Taiwan Shemag check ! $60 a box Match Boolits ! Check !,Tactical Shirt and Pants Check. !!! but none of this matters and you will never archive greatness ....unless you can find the source to the magical ........SpinD

 

[mkollman74]

i can tell you , i will never own a airplane. don;t like flying. a boat on the other hand......may be someday.....

Two best days in a boat owner's life - the day he buys it, and the day he sells it...

 

[Surgikill]

I have a couple of friends that thought Walmart leupys were good scopes, after looking through my NXS they changed there mind and now have good scopes as well as rifles and are able to shoot long range and enjoy it. 1 just recieved his GAP in december and is like a pig in shit.

So you're saying Leupold is a shit scope?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[Victory]

A Walmart VX compared to a NXS for tactical applications is a shit scope. For a hunting rifle that gets used twice a year, it's great.

If you don't buy the cheap stuff first and waste that money when you are young; you won't appreciate the good stuff and fully understand it's benefit later.

I'm glad my first rifle was a 10FP in a Choate Sniper stock and SS scope, I sure do appreciate my GAP with USO now. Same with my DTI AR and my Noveske. You all did the same thing, let them learn the same way you did.

 

[BigJW]

I personally love this kind of buyer. (I'm a dealer and builder) I will usually give my opinion and I'm usually ignored. They will buy what they think they want. Bring it back to me later to do all sorts of Tacticool stuff that will do nothing for accuracy. Then around 6 months to a year they're coming back to take the original that I offered them. I make twice the money in the long run. I always give my opinion to try and save them the time and money but if they're bound and determined to spend the $, then I'll sell them what ever they want.


All American Gunsmithing LLC
Baton Rouge L.A.

 

[meathunter1]

I am a newbie, but my buddies didn't give me the option to buy shit! Those bastards spent all my money!

 

[40xs]

Typical of incidental/occasional shooters. they hear about long range shooting, see something on t.v. about it. Also, snipers are all the rage now. Every grunt that joins up wants to be one. the problem is they know squat about what it takes to get a projectile to 1k and beyond and they think they can bend and twist what they already have without spending the necesasary cash that is absolutely take to enjoy this discipline.

 

[88blazer]

Good thread! I have a friend, same way. I try to recommend reloading components, little tricks I've learned. But he always go the opposite way. Some people think utilizing Benchrest voodoo and sprinkling the ashes of a dead master over the powder will magically send that core-loct round nose out to 1.6748 and a 1/2 miles to pull off a one hole 100 round group. LMAO! Then, when they do go out shooting with you, look across a clear cut and say "Hell yeah! Theres a 3/4 mile shot for us!" Even though you know its 400yds. AAHHH, good times.

 

[Rock2D2]

As a newbie with a family I can tell you $3k is a lot of an initial investment for something most people don't even KNOW if they are going to like, do, or be ABLE to do (precision requires patience that many do not posess).

I went the cheap route. I'm still learning. I'm learning the fundamentals on a $500 Mossberg MVP (.223) and a $200 Redfield scope. $30 for some Burris rings, and I've got a budget minded bolt action that is more accurate than I'm currently capable of being. Just this past week is the first time I shot out to 500 yards. Like EVER. It was a helluva good time, but I missed more often than I hit. Learned about the dangers of rifle cant real quick, and finally found my way on target. After more shots than I care to mention (when I was fiddling with the scope and my hold position and doing everything possible wrong) I finally hit steel consistently. I was very proud of myself. At about $730, plus ammo, i hit 500 yards reliably (from what I read that's decent with a .223).

Now I know where I made my mistakes and I can fix myself instead of my equipment. After I can outshoot the rifle, and not vice versa, then I'll have a better idea of; IF I can do it, WHEN I can do it, WHERE I can do it, and WHAT I need to keep increasing my distances of reliable hits. I think when that formula is right I'll be closer to that $3000 price tag.

Just a newbs thoght process.

 

[dentout]

Two best days in a boat owners life - the day he buys it, and the day he sells it...

+1000

 

[Strykervet]

I have a friend like this. I tell him one thing, give him good advice, and he turns around and buys some dumb shit online "when every dollar counts". Has me watch a video by "experts" who were, in fact, salesmen. I hate being asked for advice from family or friends anymore.

If you can become an expert in less than a day watching youtube videos, then WTF are you doing asking me for advice? I don't get people.

 

[Sharpsman]

i can tell you , i will never own a airplane. don;t like flying. a boat on the other hand......may be someday.....

I kinda like 'em!!


T-6_II by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr

 

[mrbungle]

Sharpsman, if i got to learn to fly a classic like that , then i might change my mind.

 

[rjacobs]

I have buddies(and a dad) that do this shit.

My buddy wanted to come out and shoot on the 500 yard steel with us, sure come on out. He brings his 30-06 mountain rifle with sporter barrel and walmart scope. Were dinging steel, he doesnt know what a hold over is(cant dial obviously), we try to help him(plugged in the "numbers" on the box of ammo into the ballistics calculator) but he cant get it and gets frustrated. He asks how much in our setups so we tell him(3k and 8k). Nope, cant spend that money. He asked me about AR's under $1000, I extolled my miniscule knowledge about AR's on him(i.e. buy a colt for a grand), he goes to CMMG and buys a bargain bin rifle. He wanted to get into reloading, I show him a Dillon 550, 1050, and a Forster Co-Ax(all top of the game in their respective class IMO) and he goes and buys a lee single stage that shoots primers all over the place, it came with a "scale"(and I use the term loosely) that was like a ball check thing and im pretty sure I could weigh powder better with my ass cheeks.

My old man asked me about buying a new grill a few years ago when his 15 year old Ducane(which was the best there was back then, now Ducane sucks balls) finally shit the bed. Budget 1000. I found him a bad ass, American made, 70k BTU with infrared sear burner, side burner, etc..., but it was 1200. He went to Home Depot and bought a $1000 something piece of shit 40k BTU, no infrared, no side burner, China made grill. I would have GIVEN HIM the $200 for him to get the BETTER grill for shit sakes.

I do have another buddy that started shooting with us. He didnt have anything but a walmart special rem 700 7mm($399 I think) and a S&W Sigma 9mm he had had for years. He actually listens and we let him shoot our guns to SHOW HIM why spending money is worth it in the long run. He now has a Bravo Company AR15, AAC 300BLK SBR(in jail), AAC 762SDN-6(in jail), Glock 19, and a Rem 700 5r. Its a start, but we have gotten him to understand why certain things cost more money and are worth it. Im trying to get him to let me re-barrel the 700 long action into something better.

I give advice to alot of people on various subjects. What they do with said advice is up to them. Most ignore it and find the folly of their ways eventually.

 

[MontanaKid]

I don't have a precision bolt gun at the moment, but people give me the "are you stupid or something" look when I tell them how much my AR and night vision cost.
A while back I helped a friend zero his AR. It had all the symptoms of a "newbie shooter". I had to grin at the cheap truglo red dot that sat so low on the rail I had to get him a riser.

 

[Trapshooter12]

We're going to find out how is scope and mount works out in the morning. I told him I will mount it for him. I had him show me the mount that he bought and it looked like something I bought for my Air Rifle.

 

[88blazer]

As a newbie with a family I can tell you $3k is a lot of an initial investment for something most people don't even KNOW if they are going to like, do, or be ABLE to do (precision requires patience that many do not posess).

I went the cheap route. I'm still learning. I'm learning the fundamentals on a $500 Mossberg MVP (.223) and a $200 Redfield scope. $30 for some Burris rings, and I've got a budget minded bolt action that is more accurate than I'm currently capable of being. Just this past week is the first time I shot out to 500 yards. Like EVER. It was a helluva good time, but I missed more often than I hit. Learned about the dangers of rifle cant real quick, and finally found my way on target. After more shots than I care to mention (when I was fiddling with the scope and my hold position and doing everything possible wrong) I finally hit steel consistently. I was very proud of myself. At about $730, plus ammo, i hit 500 yards reliably (from what I read that's decent with a .223).

Now I know where I made my mistakes and I can fix myself instead of my equipment. After I can outshoot the rifle, and not vice versa, then I'll have a better idea of; IF I can do it, WHEN I can do it, WHERE I can do it, and WHAT I need to keep increasing my distances of reliable hits. I think when that formula is right I'll be closer to that $3000 price tag.

Just a newbs thoght process.

You know what??? Had fun didn't ya? I don't care if I can spend $500 or 8K. I'll spend as much as I can afford at the time to have a blast. Cheap or expensive, your still shooting and having fun.

Something to think about too..... cheaper means more research, more in depth reloading tactics to try and squeeze every little bit of accuracy out of a cheap rifle. So, when you do get a nice expensive rifle, you can apply everything you learned to dial in the perfect load.

 

[Rock2D2]

You know what??? Had fun didn't ya? I don't care if I can spend $500 or 8K. I'll spend as much as I can afford at the time to have a blast. Cheap or expensive, your still shooting and having fun.

Something to think about too..... cheaper means more research, more in depth reloading tactics to try and squeeze every little bit of accuracy out of a cheap rifle. So, when you do get a nice expensive rifle, you can apply everything you learned to dial in the perfect load.

Yea. I had an absolute blast. I drove out to the desert, set up my steel paced out and marked 100 through 500 yards. As I could reliably hit I moved out 100 yards at a time. 100-400 was relatively easy. The difference between 400 and 500 was huge, took a lot of correcting. Applied a lot of what I've learned here on the hide to figure out what I was doing wrong, and then *Bang* steel ringing.

I don't have the time for handloads yet. I was shooting a mix of cheap reloads, Hornady 55gr, and some 62 gr fiocchi.

 

[Rock2D2]

Rock, I don't know your target size, but if you're putting 55gr Hornady (assuming FMJ's) on target at 400yds, you're doing something right. I reload that bullet and for me, it's a 300 yd rd for cheap trigger time. Good shooting!

Thank you.

I was shooting at my cheap ebay steel target, 18" tall 11" wide, 3/8" thick AR500. I wanted it so I could "hit" at distance and not be too discouraged while I'm learning my trigger and aiming technique to be able to really tighten up my groups. Plus the instant feedback when shooting solo without a spotter is nice. I can tell IF I hit and as long as my technique is decent I can see my basic grouping (after walking down) and make changes accordingly.

 

[Mormegil87]

The best thing I did was ask friends for advice while beginning to look into precision and long range shooting. He put me in contact with some guys he knew that are paid to be precise and they were extremely helpful. I followed his and their advice for the most part. I'm happy with my current set up as it is more accurate than I am. The only piece of advice I didn't follow was glass, I went vortex instead of NF because they are a local company to me. I may switch to NF down the line but the vortex will have to give me good reason to.

 

[steve123]

Thank you.

I was shooting at my cheap ebay steel target, 18" tall 11" wide, 3/8" thick AR500. I wanted it so I could "hit" at distance and not be too discouraged while I'm learning my trigger and aiming technique to be able to really tighten up my groups. Plus the instant feedback when shooting solo without a spotter is nice. I can tell IF I hit and as long as my technique is decent I can see my basic grouping (after walking down) and make changes accordingly.

You have a 9 twist so try some 69 grainers. The ballistic coefficient is higher than 55's and is usually loaded with SMK's which is a more accurate bullet than 55 FMJ's, both of which should make it easier to hit stuff farther out.

 

[rw496]

The idea of a $3,000 investment that then makes $1 bills disappear into little distant holes sobers most plinkers right up.

Lol..never looked at it that way.

 

[Rock2D2]

You have a 9 twist so try some 69 grainers. The ballistic coefficient is higher than 55's and is usually loaded with SMK's which is a more accurate bullet than 55 FMJ's, both of which should make it easier to hit stuff farther out.

Thanks for the tip. I'm going out monday to print some targets with different ammo at 100 yds and see what my rifle really likes the best. I was under the impression that 9 twist was optimal with 55gr, am I just batshit wrong? I thought 7 twist was 69, 72, 77 gr, but then again I don't really know shit, just have a lot of ideas.

 

[Punisher29073]

I shoot 52gr out of a 12 twist. 55 is about as heavy as I can go. I would have no reservation about moving up to a 69gr with a 9 twist. Good luck.

Ryan

 

[steve123]

Thanks for the tip. I'm going out monday to print some targets with different ammo at 100 yds and see what my rifle really likes the best. I was under the impression that 9 twist was optimal with 55gr, am I just batshit wrong? I thought 7 twist was 69, 72, 77 gr, but then again I don't really know shit, just have a lot of ideas.

I shoot 75's in my 8 twist and it works fine. Every gun is different, especially button rifled barrels when it comes to twist. You could have slightly less than 9 or slightly more than 9. Either way it's worth trying the 69's for sure. Why on earth Mossberg picked 9 twist I'll never understand??? 8 would have been better.

For the next tip...use the same brand and lot number of brass for precision.

 

[Rock2D2]

For the next tip...use the same brand and lot number of brass for precision.

I'll do just that, thanks.

I'll pick up some higher grains on my way out.

 

[Bradu]

I have dealt with this ever since my brother got into shooting. He will ask for advice and do just the opposite but wonder why he isn't getting the results he wanted. It was a 6 month battle just to get him to buy one kind of ammo so him zero didn't keep changing. Helping him with AR parts was a nightmare since he doesn't even know what he wants out of a rifle. Optics is a lost cause, he has two guns in need of optics but instead of putting a scope on them he decides to build another AR. Now he needs three optics but doesn't know what he wants, he wants something for close range (50-75 yards) but wants to be able to see a one inch dot at 300+ yards. I need to find someone else to shoot with because he has taken the fun out of shooting for me.

 

[hatidua]

I suspect most of us have tried to pass along knowledge that we've attained through costly mistakes and yet it's oddly so incredibly difficult for those starting out to accept. All too often it's a case of thinking that the laws of physics/economics/commerce are different now than they were 20 years ago. They, are somehow smarter than those that came before them.

 

[FN in MT]

Possibly it's advancing age talking...But I've given up on most folks five or more years back. I've wasted so much time, money and energy trying to help the idiots out there.

Several years back had a Buddy from the job who drew a trophy bull elk tag for an area that's nearly impossible to get access. Talking a once in a lifetime tag that SHOULD yield a 380" or better bull.

I call a good friend in that area, another State cop. He gets me a phone call from a Rancher who may let us on...with NO FEE!

I beg, and we get access. Tell my buddy he needs to get sighted IN, use some premium bullets, do some shooting from field positions and get his ducks in a row.

I lend him a 3.5-10X Leupold as his old redfield 2-7 doesn't hold zero well. I mount it up on his Rem 700, .300 Win mag and sight it in with 180 Nosler partitions.I'm getting 7/8" or so for 4 shots at 3000 fps.

He doesn't want to use the 180 NP's as he has always used lighter, standard old Hornady's. Also doesn't want to be sighted in at 200 yds. He likes to be "on at 300 yards". We have a heated discussion and he relents...allowing the scope to be on at 200 yds.

Week later We drive the 3 hours out to the Ranch, stay overnight and the next day we meet the land owner. He gives us ONE day as he has paying hunters in the next day.

We get into a small herd of bulls late in the afternoon. They are slightly below us in an open park in some timber. It's windy and cold, single digit temps , winds at 15-20 mph.... with a major storm on the way in. I put him on one of THE best bulls I have ever seen. 7x7, WIDE, TALL and has mass. We are at 175 yds by my rangefinder and the bulls have no idea we are there. I set him up over my pack and tell him to take his time, we are in great shape, maybe dry fire a round or two, aim for the lungs, no change in hold required, etc. He isn't on the pack 2 seconds and puts a round OVER the WRONG bull , I can see the impact in the rocks behind the bull.

The elk get up, and start milling around. A few flat run off. The 7x7 is STILL standing there. A perfect broadside! I get him on the right bull and he once again he puts a round OVER the bull...THAT was all she wrote, they ran off.

We never got on another good bull. A big storm blew in and we barely made it out that afternoon.

Despite my best efforts.....He switched his ammo for 150 gr hand loads that he NEVER shot on paper. Also dialed in 13" of elevation ....to "Put me ON at 300 yards". To say it was a quiet ride back after he told me what he'd done...is putting it mildly.
And he never did repay me for gas as had been previously agreed on.

FN in MT

 

[W54/XM-388]

Tell them that they have to be willing to invest at least $3,000 in equipment and then be willing to either take a loss in getting rid of it or be willing to invest even more on a regular basis to maintain proficiency. The idea of a $3,000 investment that then makes $1 bills disappear into little distant holes sobers most plinkers right up.

Or when you get asked what that rifle is, you just simply say it's chambered in $5 bills.

 

[HAZORD]

FN in MT, I don't know how you kept from killing him, or at least leaving his ass in the woods. I think I would have retrieved my scope from his rifle, then wrapped his rifle around a tree. People might wonder why most of my good friends are good shooters, and amazingly enough, also pilots or doctors etc. I don't deal well with morons. I'm of the belief that the majority of the "great unwashed" that creep the earth are too fucking stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time. The same people that have to disinfect their hands every time they step into a different store. The same assholes that hoard 22 ammo, and the worst thing is that the Democrats want to save these people and prevent them from Darwinizing themselves by making everything so pussified that they can't stub a toe without breaking a law. These people should have to pass an intelligence test to be allowed to breed.

OK, so I was upset, but I'm feeling much better now. Rant over. Your turn.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Possibly it's advancing age talking...But I've given up on most folks five or more years back. I've wasted so much time, money and energy trying to help the idiots out there.

Several years back had a Buddy from the job who drew a trophy bull elk tag for an area that's nearly impossible to get access. Talking a once in a lifetime tag that SHOULD yield a 380" or better bull.

I call a good friend in that area, another State cop. He gets me a phone call from a Rancher who may let us on...with NO FEE!

I beg, and we get access. Tell my buddy he needs to get sighted IN, use some premium bullets, do some shooting from field positions and get his ducks in a row.

I lend him a 3.5-10X Leupold as his old redfield 2-7 doesn't hold zero well. I mount it up on his Rem 700, .300 Win mag and sight it in with 180 Nosler partitions.I'm getting 7/8" or so for 4 shots at 3000 fps.

He doesn't want to use the 180 NP's as he has always used lighter, standard old Hornady's. Also doesn't want to be sighted in at 200 yds. He likes to be "on at 300 yards". We have a heated discussion and he relents...allowing the scope to be on at 200 yds.

Week later We drive the 3 hours out to the Ranch, stay overnight and the next day we meet the land owner. He gives us ONE day as he has paying hunters in the next day.

We get into a small herd of bulls late in the afternoon. They are slightly below us in an open park in some timber. It's windy and cold, single digit temps , winds at 15-20 mph.... with a major storm on the way in. I put him on one of THE best bulls I have ever seen. 7x7, WIDE, TALL and has mass. We are at 175 yds by my rangefinder and the bulls have no idea we are there. I set him up over my pack and tell him to take his time, we are in great shape, maybe dry fire a round or two, aim for the lungs, no change in hold required, etc. He isn't on the pack 2 seconds and puts a round OVER the WRONG bull , I can see the impact in the rocks behind the bull.

The elk get up, and start milling around. A few flat run off. The 7x7 is STILL standing there. A perfect broadside! I get him on the right bull and he once again he puts a round OVER the bull...THAT was all she wrote, they ran off.

We never got on another good bull. A big storm blew in and we barely made it out that afternoon.

Despite my best efforts.....He switched his ammo for 150 gr hand loads that he NEVER shot on paper. Also dialed in 13" of elevation ....to "Put me ON at 300 yards". To say it was a quiet ride back after he told me what he'd done...is putting it mildly.
And he never did repay me for gas as had been previously agreed on.

FN in MT

FN, this is an incredible story. There aren't enough people like you out there. Mostly because, they've been used/abused by so many idiots out there, that it was beat out of them.

That's a story that needs to be told at the local watering hole, each Friday night. Better yet, sell the movie rights and have Harrison Ford play the part of the "buddy". Realizing, of course, that he would be getting paid an immense amount of money to 'mimic' the idiocy of this buddy. Opportunities such as that are so limited, and to be that close, and throw it all away, well..... such escapades should be broadcast for posterity. Even if only 5% of its viewers learned anything from it, that would still be more progress than what is seeming to be gotten out of the national High School education system.

That, and I'd have probably sold his spleen to cover the gas debt. From what I understand, one of his kidneys MIGHT have covered the "sheer frustration charge", but I doubt it would have been enough.

 

[steve123]

FN in MT,

Now that is just maddening !!!!!!!! See, he did the exact opposite of what he was supposed to.

 

[Veer_G]

Tell them that they have to be willing to invest at least $3,000 in equipment and then be willing to either take a loss in getting rid of it or be willing to invest even more on a regular basis to maintain proficiency. The idea of a $3,000 investment that then makes $1 bills disappear into little distant holes sobers most plinkers right up.

Or when you get asked what that rifle is, you just simply say it's chambered in $5 bills.

Nah, no great urge to shoot 338LM ...

 

[RobertB]

I personally love this kind of buyer. (I'm a dealer and builder) I will usually give my opinion and I'm usually ignored. They will buy what they think they want. Bring it back to me later to do all sorts of Tacticool stuff that will do nothing for accuracy. Then around 6 months to a year they're coming back to take the original that I offered them. I make twice the money in the long run. I always give my opinion to try and save them the time and money but if they're bound and determined to spend the $, then I'll sell them what ever they want.


All American Gunsmithing LLC
Baton Rouge L.A.

Well, it is immoral to let a fool keep his money.

 

[FN in MT]

HAZORD, Sean the Nailer & Steve123,

Appreciate the comments. I left out a few things as I thought I was getting too wordy.

Took me until the Spring to finally get my scope back. When I mounted it back on my old Kimber .22 the elevation and windage was off a few full turns! It was as if he purposely turned each one a few turns to be a dick.

At work he told a totally different story that got more and more fantastic as time went on. All sorts of insane excuses. Everything from his shot being blocked by timber, to me giving him the wrong range readings!

He ended up leaving the job shortly there after and moving out of state...no loss.

On a better note....... We had a female Trooper who had hunted for a few years, had shot a deer but had NEVER shot an elk. Took her onto a local Ranch here in Craig and got her her first elk, a rag horn bull.... a clean shot at 300 yds....and her FIRST elk.

The entire endeavor from start to finish was a pleasure. She took my suggestions to heart. Did as I suggested, etc. I still have a photo of her in the loading room, with a big smile on her face posing with that bull.

Thankfully for every asshole I can recall a dozen folks that truly appreciated my help.

Back then I had a hell of a deal on that Ranch. A thousand elk scattered over 20+ sq miles with only a half dozen hunters allowed on....and I was one of them. The hunts were exciting, far from shooting them over bait or something canned like that. But we always saw elk, seldom went a day without getting into at least a few small groups or one of the larger herds of a few hundred. Those were some good times. Shot a few nice whitetails there too.



FN in MT

 

[armorpl8chikn]

What the OP has encountered is known as the Wiley North American Askhole. I have had many run-ins with this species. Often found hanging out in your LGS.
See my signature.

 

[Strykervet]

I have a friend exactly the same way. Asks me for advice, then goes online and finds "experts". Told him when starts having problems to go talk to those experts. Asked why I'd leave his ass hanging in the wind, I told him it was apparent his knowledge bypassed mine in only a day farting around online.

He still won't listen. Fuck it.