Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

[Jim_D303]

I recently grabbed a 700 in .308 and have been trying to learn to shoot well. The range I shoot at only has 500m capability.

It seemed to be very cost effective to think about shooting .223 instead of .308. I can get .223 brass all day long for free, never having to buy it again. Reloading costs seem like they'd be less than half of what .308 would cost (free brass adds a lot of savings).

My thinking is that this would allow me to shoot much more. Within a few thousand rounds, it looks like I'd could save enough money to buy a larger caliber rifle then (or just shoot twice as much ammo).


Am I really going to be loosing much in selecting .223 over .308 for learning to shoot precision rifles within about 500m?

Or should I stick with .308 and just shoot it less? This is not a hunting or duty weapon, nor am I going to be attending any matches with it until I know what I'm doing.

Thanks again!

 

[Brians708]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

.223- and shoot the hell out of it.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

you are spot on stick with the 223 to many people think they need a 308. believe it or not the 223 makes it to 1000yds just fine with 75gr amax if you push them hard.

 

[Alderleet]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

Its kinda funny, but 223 can do damn near everything 308 can, less knock-down power

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

Thanks guys!

Am I going to be hosed trying to use a 24" 1:9 barrel?

My knowledge of twist rates in .223 really comes from AR's. Do 24" 1:9 barrels typically stabilize 75gr rounds? Or is 69gr really the maximum gr weight safe bet?

 

[Elxx]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are spot on stick with the 223 to many people think they need a 308. believe it or not the 223 makes it to 1000yds just fine with 75gr amax if you push them hard. </div></div>

If you can get a factory rifle with the right twist rate. Last time I checked(year ago), you couldn't get a 700 bbl .223 rifle with a fast enough twist rate for 75g.

 

[lovain1932]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

i believe that would be a great choice for getting to shoot much more in the beginng of learning to shoot. AThen you can get a 308 and the complete the trilogy and get a 338 lapua and have a wonderful collection

 

[scotharr]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

223 is a great choice for 500M and less: go for it. Your 1:9 will stabilize 69gr bullets and less no problem. It may or may not work well for the 75gr A-Max and will be sub-optimal for 80gr bullets.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

savage makes a couple 7 and 8 twist factory offerings and they are very accurate rifles.

 

[HSNARC]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

I had trouble with 75's in my 1-9 26in factory savage model 12 but 70's are just fine.

 

[Alderleet]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

I'd recommend a 1:7 twist barrel.

It'll spin the 69's, 75's and 77's great, and if you want to reach out past 500, you can toy with the 80/90gr VLD's just fine

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">savage makes a couple 7 and 8 twist factory offerings and they are very accurate rifles. </div></div>

I've only found one of those, so far. It seems like it's only offered on their higher end rifles with upgrades I don't want.
Like the 12 VLP with the laminate stock and fluted barrel.

I couldn't find a 10FP or 12FV (or anything similar) with a faster twist than 1:9. Are they made but on request only or something?

Couldn't I rebarrel it down the road with a faster twist if I found it necessary?

Again, thanks!

 

[Wicked Weapons]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys!

Am I going to be hosed trying to use a 24" 1:9 barrel?

My knowledge of twist rates in .223 really comes from AR's. Do 24" 1:9 barrels typically stabilize 75gr rounds? Or is 69gr really the maximum gr weight safe bet? </div></div>
I am researching the same, here is what I found. Data from JBM.

Stability:

Caliber: 0.224 in
Bullet Weight: 69.0 gr
Bullet Length: 0.900 in
Muzzle Velocity: 2800.0 ft/s
Barrel Twist: 9.0 in
Temperature: 20.0 °F
Pressure: 29.92 in Hg

Stability: 1.532 (mil standard = +1.5)

It would appear that as long as your load can achieve 2800 fps, then 69 gr. SMK's may be 'good to go' even in sub-freezing temps?

Notice barrel length is NOT part of the equation. It does not matter, only velocity. Shorter barrel will = less velocity though. Use a chronograph to determine actual velocity.

I feel completely safe using the 69gr. SMK bullets and think they stabilize adequately from a 1-9" twist barrel (if velocity is at least 2700-2800fps). Unless someone can show otherwise, I will be shooting the 69gr. SMK in my 16" 1-9" twist barrel; as long as I'm not in Siberia.

I do think that's max. weight/length for that twist though. Anything heavier; no way.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

The 1-9" twist with 24 grains or so of varget and a 69 grain match bullet will do very well.

I would recommend the stndard savage 10FP or model 12, add a B&C tactical or choate tactical stock.

Shoot to your hearts content. You can even try the 75 grain pills, my 1-9 seems to stabilize them if I push them hard enough, but my range only goes to 200 yards.

When you are ready, buy a wheeler barrel nut wrench, a wheeler barrel vise a .223 go headspace gage and a new 1-7 or 1-8 twist barrel. (a rosin bag also helps)
It will take about 20 minutes to put your new barrel on.

I prefer the barrel vise over the action wrench because on the blind magazine models, getting the mag body off without damaging it is a pain.

Now, what is really cool about the savage is, you can buy a new bolt head, a .308 barrel and a .308 headspace gage and change it to .308. You might have to remove a spacer on the bolt body to account for the very short .223.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Newbie caliber selection for 500m and in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 1-9" twist with 24 grains or so of varget and a 69 grain match bullet will do very well.

I would recommend the stndard savage 10FP or model 12, add a B&C tactical or choate tactical stock.</div></div>

I've been looking into doing that. The 12FV ships with a detachable mag, but it looks like none of the B&C stocks accommodate it. Is the Choate the only system that does until you step up into the $500+ market?