Newbie: CTR + Bravo vs HMR?

[R700P308]

Title pretty much sums it up. Both are 20" 308 rifles. Accuracy reports are indistinguishable. However the Bergara comes with a stock/chassis that, to me, looks to compete quite well with the KRG on most points. All of that at several hundred dollars cheaper + not having to tinker with it.

Last weekend I was able to compare both side by side at a gun counter. The Bergara had a better trigger and I marginally preferred the Bergara's bolt lift feel. Otherwise they were identical (except for the CTR's stock, obviously).


In my area I'm not likely to shoot beyond 800yds at the moment. Which would you recommend?


Tikka Pros: Better stock, more options / possibly more aftermarket support?
Tikka Cons: Doesn't take Magpul AICS mags / requires work to get what I want / more expensive overall

Bergara Pros: Complete package / takes all AICS-pattern mags
Bergara Cons: Worse (?) stock / ugly color

 

[Radioactiv]

If you go the Tikka route I would be on the look out for guys replacing Bravos for T6as. Manners had a hell of a deal on them and I'm sure a few guys will be upgrading.

Also you "can" get by on the factory tikka stock. I rigged a XLR cheekpad and a arca rail to it to get me buy until I could get a krg

 

[Kayakfish1]

I'm about to pull the trigger and pick up a bergara in the next week, it has a 700 footprint so there is a plethora of aftermarket options out there for it.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

The Tikka won’t take Magpul AICS mags, but will take other AICS mags.... right? Pick up a couple of accurate mags and be done. Theyll let you load longer (closer to the lands) anyways.

For what it’s worth, I’m a yuge fan of my Bravo chassis.

 

[patriot07]

You should consider just going to a T4a or T6a if you go with the CTR. If you go with a Bravo, you've also got to buy expensive mags to go along with it. By the time I figured up the cost of a Bravo plus mags versus the T4a I got that was inlet for CTR bottom metal and mags that I already had, it was less than $100 difference so going with the Manners was a no-brainer, unless you just really love the Bravo.

 

[Off Duty Ninja]

Go with the Bergara. It's a Rem700 clone so all 700 triggers/stocks/accessories will work with it. They shoot great and if they don't for some weird reason, Bergara will be happy to help and make sure that it does.

 

[Evolution 9]

The Tikka action is superior with both design and features in line with full custom actions.

Arguments for aftermarket support advantages for Rem footprint guns were valid 15 years ago but not today. Every component you could reasonably want to switch is now readily available from multiple sources.

You won’t regret either choice. They are both excellent options.

 

[ramblr72]

My $.02...

If you are buying the actual rifle you cycled at the gun counter, buy the one you liked best.

If you are buying online through an FFL, buy the Tikka. Every Tikka action I have handled was buttery smooth. I have only handled a couple of B14 actions that were as smooth as a Tikka.

Also, if I were buying my CTR today I would install a KalixTeknik cheek rest and use the factory stock before considering an aftermarket chassis.

 

[R700P308]

Most voted for the Tikka, but I haven't seen much conversation on the merits of the Bravo stock over the HMR's factory setup. Wish I could just feel a Bravo for myself.

ramblr72 and Radioactiv you bring up a good point on the basic stock. I have a TacOps cheek pad that could work well on it.

 

[patriot07]

I ran my factory Tikka stock for over a year before going to the Manners. I used a Triad Tactical stock pack for the cheek rest and it worked great. I love the Manners, but the factory stock never really held me back.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

Merits of the bravo stock:

Adjustable cheek piece.
Adjustable butt pad is available.
Butt hook cover plate is available if you’re into that.
Arca rail is easily attached to the fore end.
Spigot mount is available.
It doesn’t weigh a whole lot. My rifle fully decked out comes in at 13.5lbs with bipod and all.

I don’t know that there’s really a huge diff between the two stocks, other than maybe what can be added to them.

The only thing that I didn’t like about my bravo was the texture on the pistol grip. My hand would slide around on that thing like it was no bodies buisiness when I was sweating. The fix? I stippled it. No more slippage.

 

[patriot07]

The only thing that I didn’t like about my bravo was the texture on the pistol grip. My hand would slide around on that thing like it was no bodies buisiness when I was sweating. The fix? I stippled it. No more slippage.

The few Bravos that I've been around, this was by far my biggest complaint as well. Good to know there is an easy fix. I liked my Manners pistol grip way more than the Bravo, but maybe the difference would be much less significant with something like this.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

Stippling was super simple. Used a wood burner. No diff than stippling a Glock or M&P.

 

[R700P308]

Been looking at the CTR in its factory stock and it doesn't look bad at all. Very similar to the old-style Savage FCP-SR I used to have.

Depends on price though. It's pretty close to the Bergara.

 

[Novak77]

+1 for a Tikka. I was looking at doing a very similar build off a CTR, ended up going with a Manners instead of a KRG though.

 

[Graywolf.260]

Also, the CTR trigger adjusts easily down to about 2lb and it will feel very different from the factory set trigger you tried out. I've never dry fired a bergara but the Tikka trigger is justifiably renowned.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

I would like to point out that Howa makes a damn good rifle as well. KRG also makes the bravo chassis for it. It’s trigger is also adjustable. You can buy them as either a Howa/Bravo already set up, or you can buy a barreled action from Brownells, and slap it in any chassis you want, and prolly save a little money in the process. Their barrels are typically 24”-26”.... so longer than the 20” that you’re looking at, but I figured I’d throw it in for consideration.

 

[R700P308]

I would like to point out that Howa makes a damn good rifle as well. KRG also makes the bravo chassis for it. It’s trigger is also adjustable. You can buy them as either a Howa/Bravo already set up, or you can buy a barreled action from Brownells, and slap it in any chassis you want, and prolly save a little money in the process. Their barrels are typically 24”-26”.... so longer than the 20” that you’re looking at, but I figured I’d throw it in for consideration.

Just checked out the website - pretty impressive. You get the KRG stock and the longer barrel all for the same price as the CTR + Bravo.

Why are Howa rifles not talked about as much? That's quite a package.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

I have no clue why they aren’t talked about more. The people that have them tend to love them. I flirted with the idea of getting one for years, but always told myself that it wasn’t a remmy, and so I wouldn’t buy one. Then one day I saw one for sale. 6.5 Creed, super cheesy stock, proprietary mag, came with a Harris knock off bipod and a pic rail, for $450. SOLD!

I took it out to the range, and with factory ammo and that cheesy stock with a cheap throw down weaver kaspa I was consistently getting .75 moa. Started handloading and the groups started shrinking a little closer to .5 moa. Then the rifle was stolen out of my truck.

Looking around and trying to figure out what to replace it with, I saw that Howa was teaming up with KRG, and that they were going to release the Howa Bravo As a ready to go package. SOLD!

With handloads I’m getting .3-.5moa, and with factory ammo it seems to hang right around .5moa.

If memory serves, Howa makes the Vanguard for Weatherby (as in they are the same exact rifle).

They are good guns. I’m super happy with mine.

There’s not a huge aftermarket for them, but there are things out there for them, and the aftermarket looks to be growing. KRG, MDT, and XLR all make stuff for them. So does EGW and a few others.

Also, I think I remember @Lowlight talking to Howa and MDT on one of the podcasts about them teaming up and having a turnkey package as well. I may be wrong on that though.

Check em out. I think you’ll like em.

 

[R700P308]

Thanks for the info! It's certainly an attractive package. Would you say the Howa action compares well with the Tikka for strength, smoothness, lifespan, and reliability?

I like that their package has a longer barrel. Not a huge fan of the Tikka's 20" tube.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

I honestly don’t have any experience with a Tikka to compare smoothness, but mine runs just fine. As for strength, lifespan and reliability, I don’t see how the Howa would fail where a Tikka wouldn’t.

 

[_Raining]

Arguments for aftermarket support advantages for Rem footprint guns were valid 15 years ago but not today. Every component you could reasonably want to switch is now readily available from multiple sources.

As far as I know, you need to go with a $460 B&A if you want a light trigger pull. Rem 700 style will have access to the Trigger Techs and Jewells for a much lower price.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

Howa triggers break clean as it is. They can be adjusted down a little, but if you want more, you can cut 1/2 to 1 coil off of one if the springs, and it’ll get you into the 2 to 2.5lb range. They do have a bit of over travel, but installing a set screw into the trigger guard should be easy enough to do.

 

[Evolution 9]

Negative. The factory Tikka trigger is excellent, can be made very light with a ten dollar spring, and hasn’t been recalled twice like the Remington.

 

[260284]

I ran my factory Tikka stock for over a year before going to the Manners. I used a Triad Tactical stock pack for the cheek rest and it worked great. I love the Manners, but the factory stock never really held me back.

I did the same with my factory stock, but it was over a year then I went German Gun Stock so I could use the CTR and TRG magazines that I had. The rifle may be a bit more accurate now, but it also has a Bartlein barrel now.

 

[260284]

Also, the CTR trigger adjusts easily down to about 2lb and it will feel very different from the factory set trigger you tried out. I've never dry fired a bergara but the Tikka trigger is justifiably renowned.

Buy a $10 spring and it will be closer to 1-1/2 lbs.

 

[260284]

Thanks for the info! It's certainly an attractive package. Would you say the Howa action compares well with the Tikka for strength, smoothness, lifespan, and reliability?

I like that their package has a longer barrel. Not a huge fan of the Tikka's 20" tube.

CTR also comes in a 24" barrel.

 

[R700P308]

CTR also comes in a 24" barrel.

Really? I only see the 308 in a 20" barrel length.

Tikka website

 

[260284]

Really? I only see the 308 in a 20" barrel length.

Tikka website

Sorry, I was thinking 6.5, not 308.

 

[_Raining]

Negative. The factory Tikka trigger is excellent, can be made very light with a ten dollar spring, and hasn’t been recalled twice like the Remington.

It is excellent. I have a Tikka with a new spring but where you are wrong is that 1 lb is very light. If you want to get into the low oz range then you need a Jewell or B&A or Trigger Tech Diamond, only one of those are available for Tikka and it is much more expensive then the Rem 700 counterpart.

275$ Rem 700 B&A TacSport Pro = 3.5 oz low
290$ Trigger Tech Diamond = 4 oz low
200$ Jewell HVR = 1.5 oz low

460$ Tikka B&A = 3 oz

So if you get a Tikka and want lower then 1 lb then you need to spend 460$ vs a Bergara which will take Rem 700 triggers and you can get a Jewell for 260$ less or the extremely highly regarded Trigger Tech Diamond for 170$ less and have better resale value as well as if you upgrade to a full custom you can swap it over to that.

 

[patriot07]

Ive been around a lot of Tikkas. All shot very easily under 1” and most would do 1/2 or better. Literally all of them had the factory trigger. A few had the yodave spring. It’s just not something that needs to be changed for 99.9% of shooters.

 

[Evolution 9]

Again, Raining, negative.

I said “any component you could reasonably want to switch out is readily available from multiple sources”

First, read some of the posts about Tikka triggers. It isn’t reasonable to want to switch them. This is SnipersHide, not bench rest stool. Working rifles have no business having triggers anywhere near “ounces”.

Second, they are readily available, just like I said. You even found them proving my point. I said nothing about them being priced the same as Remington.

 

[patriot07]

I think remington folks get so stuck on the trigger because the 700 factory trigger sucks so much. They’re just used to having to spend hundreds on a gun right after buying it, and they don’t realize that not all rifles require that.

 

[R700P308]

I don't plan on changing triggers in any rifle I buy. Both Tikka and Bergara triggers are plenty serviceable for a newbie like me.

 

[Rillhurst]

Got a couple of CTRs and $6.95 worth of springs from Gunsmith Earnie will give you all the trigger upgrade you could want on a Tikka (varmint spring easily runs 1 1/2 lb which is my preferred weight). Also Have Bergara HMR Pro came with a TriggerTech Primary which is okay but went with TriggerTech Diamond .
Don’t think you’ll go wrong with either setup...

 

[_Raining]

I don't plan on changing triggers in any rifle I buy. Both Tikka and Bergara triggers are plenty serviceable for a newbie like me.

If that is the case then I would say the Tikka will be a better option. AFAIK Bergara doesn't have a prefit barrel available but the Tikka does. The Tikka's trigger with a new spring is basically equivalent to a 1-1.5 lb Timney. Tikkas have plenty of chassis options although sometimes they can be slightly more expensive. Just be aware that if your wants for the trigger ever change then you will stuck with a 2 stage from Timney or a 460$ B&A. I have seen a few posts about Tikka barrels being slower then usual but that isn't a big problem (I don't have direct experience with this as I immediately put a new barrel on my Tikka when I bought it). The bolt lift is fairly heavy compared to my Rem 700 and Defiance but it isn't much of a problem for me bc the rifle is very heavy in its current configuration.

Honestly, if you ever planned on upgrading everything (barrel, stock trigger) then I would say you would be better off going with a entry level custom since most people end up putting bolt handles on the Tikka as well as you need a pic rail which would put it very close to a entry level custom as far as price goes. I personally wish I saved up the extra $ for the Rem 700 and Tikka and gotten custom actions instead but everyone is different and that may not matter at all to you. The Rem and Tikka shoot as well as the Defiance but the Defiance is nicer to use.